Game News Wasteland 2 to use Unity

[koyima]

Nothing incredible though, but what you gonna do?

 

[EG]

Nothing incredible though, but what you gonna do?

Curse God. Work for the destruction of mankind. Fall into the pit of insanity (precariously close to the gentle ravine of depression). And turn this into the Koyima-EG-Drocon thread!

 

[Infinitron]

This thread is an ungodly abomination that begs for apocalypse retardo.


You guys are besmirching the Codex's good name in the developer community.
That's the second time for Drocon/Drog btw. Come on, go ahead and call Brian Fargo a con-artist. I know you want to.

 

[koyima]

Nothing incredible though, but what you gonna do?

Try C4!

Also, play fallout 1 + 2.

It's not an engine problem. I wish I was at a position to be limited by the engine. It's simply time.

Also I worked on those games for clients, they are not my own projects, they define what they need.

I have some more interesting game related work coming along though.

 

[Kz3r0]

Why don't serious developers use X?

They've tied their resources in their own private, proprietary, technology Y and wouldn't dream of throwing that out, having to retrain hundreds of staff and themselves .etc

Just like asking "Why does the Government of Canada still need COBOL programmers?" (To maintain and translate ancient 80s programs into something the younglings can understand and maintain, btw. In 30 years, the same thing will happen to their lovely *new* C++ pre-millenium code, assuredly.)

No, because COBOL is the best for the purpose of which has been specifically created and still will be for a long time, without mentioning that it runs all the major financial institution worldwide.
Beside, you have to admire a language that can transition with a small effort from punched cards to modern mainframes.
I know, I know, this offend the sensibilities of all the C++ hackers wannabes.

 

[tiagocc0]

This thread is an ungodly abomination that begs for apocalypse retardo.


You guys are besmirching the Codex's good name in the developer community.
That's the second time for Drocon/Drog btw. Come on, go ahead and call Brian Fargo a con-artist. I know you want to.

Like Drocon said.

I know Fargo will deliver, I have said it a few pages before. W2 will probably be great, I sure do hope so.
But the game can become the number one in the galaxy and it still won't make me like Unity.

 

[Ulminati]

They updated their KS page with their reasoning for choosing unity.

Native win/mac support and a promise from the engine crew to get the alpha dev kit for porting to linux. Working toolset available to team + modders down the line. Downplayed speed since they arne't intending to throw a billion polygyns around.

 

[koyima]

They updated their KS page with their reasoning for choosing unity.

Native win/mac support and a promise from the engine crew to get the alpha dev kit for porting to linux. Working toolset available to team + modders down the line. Downplayed speed since they arne't intending to throw a billion polygyns around.

You would think it would make us stop, but the news about this update was posted 3 pages ago...

 

[EG]

The smart ones don't read then memorize the entire thread.

Now, how does Unity handle software-based cursors? Google insists that Unity sees a software cursor as an afront to the glory imbued within its hardware lineage, but surely this cannot be so.

 

[Ulminati]

After the first 10 pages of 'sperg raging you kinda zone out. Forgive a tired man for missing that post.

Messed about with unity years ago at DTU when we needed a sinple 3d environment with a rudementary physics engine to test the viability of neural network AIs for solving simple tasks. It was good for what it was back then.

 

[koyima]

The smart ones don't read then memorize the entire thread.

Now, how does Unity handle software-based cursors? Google insists that Unity sees a software cursor as an afront to the glory imbued within its hardware lineage, but surely this cannot be so.

Hardware cursors have been asked for by quite a few Unity users. Maybe they will finally offer a built-in solution. Until then: http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/70163-Hardware-Cursor-Plugin

 

[EG]

The smart ones don't read then memorize the entire thread.

Now, how does Unity handle software-based cursors? Google insists that Unity sees a software cursor as an afront to the glory imbued within its hardware lineage, but surely this cannot be so.

Hardware cursors have been asked for by quite a few Unity users. Maybe they will finally offer a built-in solution. Until then: http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/70163-Hardware-Cursor-Plugin

ooooo. But then how'd I handle special cursors over specific objects?

Reveal your secrets, my precious.

[I'll . . . I'll move this discussion out of the news post and into the workshop after class this evening.]

 

[Alex_Steel]

C4 has one main guy and some contractors, Unity has backing of hundreds of millions of dollars and countless drones. And do I sound like a marketer? I don't think anyone in his right mind would send me out to drum up sales.

Agreed, no one would. But I can speculate, right? I'm so good at it.

Anyway you're wrong, and talking about something you can't comprehend. I suggest you just butt out and let grown ups talk.

About what am I wrong Mr. grown up your high horse?

 

[Cassidy]

Like my desire to see Drocon's work, I'd like to see what games you've worked on / are working on.

I've shown you mine.

Arcanum. I thought it was obvious enough.

As for this, all I hope for is that they won't dumb down the game for tablets and their hipster audience. If they do and it ends as "hardcore oldschool" as the coming X-COM by Firaxis(a textbook example even turn-based games can be catered for retards), I won't buy it. So far there is no sign they intend to do it, fortunately. And I'm almost sure Brian Fargo would not smear his reputation by doing such a thing and pissing off a lot of the sponsors and gamblers.

 

[lmbarns]

Nah, I reserve the C word for people who deserve it. Such as Bannu Saga folks, Vogel, Gaider and other Biodrones, and Unity folks.

I like Fargo quite a bit. He has made or helped make some of best games evah. I don't think Unity was probably a great choice but they got the source code and all our jewgoldz so they will make it work somehow probably. And of course MCA is the guiding light of my life and I'd never blaspheme against him.

Game will probably be good but it's sad they chose a poor tool to realize this (hopefully) glorious game.

Your momma!

*popcorn*

 

[FrancoTAU]

koyima
DU utterly destroyed you a couple of pages back and you spat the dummy and disappeared. Now you are back??? Aren't you busy? Don't you have games to make in Unity?

You don't understand... I was making games, that's why I'm back now. DarkUnderlord was still talking about making a Custom Engine (laughs!!!!).
Compared the situation in 2005 with today basically, said because Bioware made it's own engine ten years ago, we should do the same today. Destroyed.... I think not.

I replied to his points, did you miss that? Oh, yes I forgot, it's you, the one that cut's out the quotes and responds to the sarcasm part. All makes sense now.

I think you missed DU's point about custom engines. He wasn't suggesting that a small start up developer should build one from scratch. He was just pointing out your non sequitor about the number of games being built with an engine tells us how good it is. Some engines have only been used on 1 or 2 games which were great. Some engines have been used on dozens of great games. Vice versa in both cases too with shitty games being made.

 

[CreamyBlood]

This was entertaining for awhile, but DayZ came out and I had a epiphany (?). I never comment on threads that I haven't read before so I missed pages 11->18.

I think my Unity game is more fun than Drocons C4 game. It's just a little arcade shooter (actually there are no bullets) with only two levels. I'll prove it to you, tomorrow. It has a GUI. It's pretty rough around the edges, but it's allright. Some of you might like it. I did, but that's because I made it. Or the next day. Possibly later tonight.

Yeah, maybe tomorrow.

 

[EG]

So, is Unity any good?

Don't know. If I can pull the Vector3f of an empty GameObject to make positioning the GUI easier (without outright manual scripting), I'd really like it more. Edit-endum: http://unity3d.com/support/documentation/ScriptReference/index.Accessing_Other_Components.html

And if I didn't have to do an entirely custom mouse or use some sort of random plugin? . . .

Sigh.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Not sure if W2 is setting out to push the limit of what Unity can do, but I'll give you half a point. No, there hasn't been any serious AAA title on Unity (well, if you say there hasn't, I'm not checking facts here) but I'm also getting the vibe that Unity didn't start out as the intended engine of a X3A game like Unreal or Cry.

Yup. It pretty much started out as a casual online chat interface (and from memory - though I'm going back here to years ago when I first checked it out when it came out - that's what its main goal was). The first demo was walking around a bunch of different "environments" chatting to other people (Island, Castle, Spaceship Art Gallery thing). Now its major games are online, multiplayer environments.

Which of course begs the question, can it do a single-player, desktop-based AAA game?

A big bunch of amateur projects is still a good track record in my book, as groups of diehard professionals are potentially able to make Super Mario run on a pile of dog shit, which tells us precious little about the dog shit. Though, I guess that's a strawman.

Well, that's sort of the point I've been trying to make. They have source code, so if shit doesn't work, then (theoretically at least) they can make shit work (which is why I'm not personally worried about their engine choice).

In fact, I could probably argue that maybe there's a reason why an engine that's been around for so long still hasn't been used by a AAA developer yet (for anything other than mobile or online web-based games).

What about W2?

Without shitting all over InXile, would you really class them as AAA developers though? Most of their games have been little online console mini-game type things for the iPhone.

And now they've chosen an engine which is re-knowned for little online console mini-game type things that work on the iPhone. Pointing out all those games as examples of greatness doesn't exactly help because 90% of this argument basically boils down to "It just doesn't look good." People don't have faith that Unity can be a serious engine for a serious game because it basically hasn't been done yet.

In any case, I wouldn't make that argument if I were you. There's probably plenty of reasons outside of the engine's capabilities and performance that keep it from hitting the X3A jackpot.

Yup. And what are those reasons? Why don't AAA developers use Unity if it's such a great, easy to use engine?

koyima himself has pretty much pointed it out: Budget restrictions. AAA games are made with AAA budgets. InXile don't have the cash. If they did, would they use Unity?

Now maybe it's just that nobody's bothered yet. But then again, it raises the issue of "what sort of problems is a AAA developer going to run into"?

And hey, maybe they'll make Unity work for them. Hopefully they can.

What's good about an engine that's only good if you have the source code?

For these "generic" engines, once your project reaches a level of complexity, you will want the source code. Making games without source code on a non-specialized engine is really only for casual boring-banal-bullshit.

Nail. Head. AAA games have a level of complexity that's beyond "Billy made a game in class all by himself, how cool!" And the problem with generic engines is just that, they're generic.

You don't understand... I was making games, that's why I'm back now. DarkUnderlord was still talking about making a Custom Engine (laughs!!!!).
Compared the situation in 2005 with today basically, said because Bioware made it's own engine ten years ago, we should do the same today. Destroyed.... I think not.

And the engines AAA developers choose to use...

... is overwhelmingly NOT Unity. If all these games are made with other people's engines, how come no-one's using Unity?

Why is that koyima? Why is that?

 

[EG]

wtf? Why would you transform a GUI? Are you sure you aren't messing something up?

More so . . . it's to prevent, on these 10 lovely buttons, having to position them directly in script. The following code allows me to take the handle, and drag it to its new position, removing the scripting step.

Behold, the glorious union:

var guiStyle : GUIStyle;

var v: Vector3;



function Start ()

{



}



function OnGUI ()

{

	v = this.transform.position;

	Debug.Log(v);



	GUI.Button(Rect(v.x, v.y, 22 * 6, 21 * 6), "", guiStyle);

}

and this, takes out the scripting of Texture2D size:

GUI.Button(Rect(v.x, v.y, guiStyle.normal.background.width, guiStyle.normal.background.height);

To move OnGUI out of every fucking script I have, it'll probably be wise (or incredibly stupid) to preload my textures, preconstruct my rectangles, and call them from a single monolithic script of gigantic implications. Hopefully, this will prevent the need to initialize them anew every frame.

 

[lmbarns]

UnityGUI is heavy on draw calls which is why there are dozens of external tools in their asset store related to 2d interfaces/sprite managers, which allow you to batch draw calls. You're completely free to make your own ubber extensions for Unity, and sell it on the asset store, since you guy's are so smart, and you can make A LOT of money from your l33t smarts which you've demonstrated thoroughly above and countlessly throughout this thread!

You can also use quads from a modeling program as planes instead, you can use colliders (not efficient either), OR..concept forming...... Rects.

You can use GUITexture for each image you want in your GUI, GUIText for any text element you want to update with text but yea 1 draw call each though text can be many lines long and concatenate many variables into a very long or multi line string in 1 call . Takes about 5 seconds to lay out a GUI if you have the graphics and each element can use the .hitTest() method to detect touches/mouse input for that element.

But yea you have to combine textures into an atlas and map rects to do it in 1 call. waaaaaaah it's that way in html5 too bozos or anywhere else duh google "atlas" or "sprite sheet" smartypants.

Also you can design shit efficiently if you're smart, so shouldn't even be using UnityGUI in the firstplace....it's for people with no moneys or smarts.....

 

[SerratedBiz]

Fuck's sake, the butthurt is so strong it's actually manifesting in new accounts. o_O

 

[EG]

lmbarns If I had real smarts, I'd be like you.

 

[EG]

Performance seems fine for my shitty little program so far. Just that annoying desire of "moar speed!" Besides, after converting the frms to bmps to pngs to properly alpha-channeled pngs, I've come to realize that there's . . . a lot of them, just for the interface, inventory, in game menu, character creation, options, inventory, and steal screens. Better organization is better organization, yeah?

Rects make sense.

Indexing textures within a mega-texture and/or creating spritesheets seems a bit ridiculous.
Same with planes -- have to rip out functionality and script other functionality then.
Similar for converting textures into strings of text and manipulating them in byte arrays . . .
. . . Might as well just pick up a copy of the OpenGL Red Book again.

Am curious about this hittest. Is there a like-wise function to set cursor type, or has anyone an idea on how to do it without resorting to forcing a hardware mouse through what ever the flying fuck Mono is (some further bastardization of Microsoft's C#, likely)? Since Fallout seems to use three different cursors all at once (edge of screen, move selection, hand to indicate touchables, and pointer for interface), determining the type of element the mouse lingers on is going to be pretty fucking important. At least edge of screen is covered -- the rest is a mystery.

Fully realized, though, I can't see this using more than 60 MB of RAM and 150 draw calls. Feel free to beat me to death for being wrong later.

[false promise]. . . Will put up the build once the rudimentary windows/menus are in. This is contingent on the migraine going and sleep being gained.

 

[Tzaero]