Wasteland Wasteland 3 + Battle of Steeltown and Cult of the Holy Detonation Expansions Thread

[TheDiceMustRoll]

Can people say without irony this game is better than W2? I found W2 so insanely boring.

 

[Haplo]

Can people say without irony this game is better than W2? I found W2 so insanely boring.

It is A LOT more fun and better then W2 for me. YMMV.

 

[Yosharian]

Can people say without irony this game is better than W2? I found W2 so insanely boring.

It is A LOT more fun and better then W2 for me. YMMV.

Yes but to be fair Hap you also like Pillars and Deadfire

 

[TheDiceMustRoll]

Can people say without irony this game is better than W2? I found W2 so insanely boring.

It is A LOT more fun and better then W2 for me. YMMV.

Yes but to be fair Hap you also like Pillars and Deadfire

I hate deadfire but like pillars. SO this works.

 

[Daidre]

I've decided to try Wasteland 3.

First I noticed that all my PCs have a pale red eyebrows and I can't change color no matter what I do in editor. Neither I can unsee it and stop staring at those damn eyebrows every time I open an inventory.

Then I tried to equip cool cowboy hat and I my poor girl went completely bald. Utterly bald with a hat model being 1.5 times bigger than her head. Ouch.

About the game itself, in my short experience combat seemed ok (more or less) but writing were utter bore and littered with way too many attempts to be quirky/funny. Well at least it is more or less to the point, probably thanks to full voice-over. Environments seems pretty enough but character/item designs are garish and often ugly.

After 4 for hours I think I start to understand why discussion here is pathetic in length for a such "important" release. And maybe W3 will even drastically improve later, since some people claim with the straight face it is GOTY material... who knows.

But one thing for sure, right now it feels like true and real, 100%-authentic, nu-Obsidian's game.

 

[Parsimonious cook]

I was hyped as fuck for Wasteland 2, back when the devs were promising extremely deep reactivity (like people reacting differently to you depending on the party composition) and real C&C. Then I got the game and saw that basically none of the cool stuff was actually in the game and even seemingly profound choices (like saving the dam or the scientific outpost) had basically no consequences whatsoever. It was obvious that the devs instead decided to prioritise the number of retarded outfits your party members could wear. Combat was pretty much like FO2 except you could overwatch and crouch.

I cleared pretty much the whole first part of the game (the initial map before you go to California or something), before dropping it and never looking back. Is the W3 just more of the same?

 

[Tenebris]

The writing is a step down in 3 and they somehow made it even easier too. It's also significantly shorter and after the first half of the game it sort of just railroads you to the finale where it just...ends very abruptly.

 

[yes plz]

It's definitely better but it's not a major improvement, so I doubt you'll like W3 if you completely disliked W2.

 

[Lambach]

And maybe W3 will even drastically improve later, since some people claim with the straight face it is GOTY material... who knows.

Eh, doubt it. It was a fun and enjoyable romp, but no matter how much effort they put into it, I don't see how they can turn it into something truly great, save for basically rewriting the whole thing except the basic premise and scrapping everything but the basic gameplay elements and remaking them from scratch. I beat it twice in succession and both times were enjoyable enough (and there is a decent-ish amount of replay value), but then I pretty much forgot all about it 2-3 weeks later. It's the equivalent of a summer blockbuster for RPGs, really.

As to why some people are calling it a GOTY, well, it's because 2020 has been spectacularly bad for RPGs and vidya in general.*

*ban everyone who brings up fucking KurwaJunk 2077 as a rebuttal to this

 

[SpaceWizardz]

It's most offensive element is it's technical issues, I think once it receives all it's patches and expansions it'll have a cozy spot in any "Baby's first CRPGs" list.

I hope it's moderate? success encourages other devs to be more experimental with their soundtracks and how they're applied. The use of hymms and liscensed song covers elevate otherwise unnoteworthy moments into something memorable.

 

[Tavar]

I'm going to give it a try soon. From the most recent patch notes it seems that they've nerfed both sniper rifles and explosives. Any tips on what to skill in the current state of the game?

 

[Lambach]

I'm going to give it a try soon. From the most recent patch notes it seems that they've nerfed both sniper rifles and explosives.

Bleh, nerfing player stats is not the solution, nerfing enemy stats while making them smarter about using those stats is. All this nerf will do is encourage people to come up with different "I need to get first turn and win the fight during that first turn" strategies. If you can't min-max your sniper to "One Shot, One Kill", it's going to feel quite useless next to a random mid-level mook who has twice your tank's HP and roughly on-par damage as your own best damage dealers and who can kill said sniper in a single turn + do serious damage to another team member. This game lacks 3D elevation, breakable walls and terrain (you can blow up covers, but it's rather meaningless) and many similar tacticool features, so simple stat bloat/nerf will never solve its problems - it will simply force people to adapt to different ways of doing the same thing.

EDIT: Speaking from only playing on Supreme Jerk, so YMMV.

 

[Pegultagol]

The rangers thrive on being specialists more than anything imo. But it is useful to experiment sourcing from a pool of candidates available. The patches should've changed some things in balancing but one build that comes to mind is sniper specialist with first aid. Also run and gun with smg specialist with high charisma to build up special attack meter was useful on Ranger difficulty.

The most difficult fights, at least in the beginning anyway, happens on the overhead map. Be sure to use the Kodiak to the fullest advantage. Hope they didn't nerf that.

 

[Haplo]

I was hyped as fuck for Wasteland 2, back when the devs were promising extremely deep reactivity (like people reacting differently to you depending on the party composition) and real C&C. Then I got the game and saw that basically none of the cool stuff was actually in the game and even seemingly profound choices (like saving the dam or the scientific outpost) had basically no consequences whatsoever. It was obvious that the devs instead decided to prioritise the number of retarded outfits your party members could wear. Combat was pretty much like FO2 except you could overwatch and crouch.

I cleared pretty much the whole first part of the game (the initial map before you go to California or something), before dropping it and never looking back. Is the W3 just more of the same?

It's a smaller, more compact game... but also more action packed, way more dynamic. No place for boredom here. Much faster and more interesting combat with many more options, far more interesting character development mechanics. Better combat area design, more "natural" cover placement.

Its less old style and more streamlined... but in a really good way IMO.
If your're here for the dialogues and reactivity, you might not like it, though.

 

[Haplo]

The rangers thrive on being specialists more than anything imo. But it is useful to experiment sourcing from a pool of candidates available. The patches should've changed some things in balancing but one build that comes to mind is sniper specialist with first aid. Also run and gun with smg specialist with high charisma to build up special attack meter was useful on Ranger difficulty.

The rangers generally should specialize, BUT there are interesting perks under certain skills, that various characters can cherry pick and greatly benefit from. Such as Mark Target from sniper tree. Structural Weakness from Mechanics. Heating Element for Fire focused characters from Toaster Repair. Emergency Response from First aid. A bit bigger investment, but great for certain builds is Draw! from handguns.

Sniper with First Aid sounds like a terrible idea (although admittedly one I also had at first). You want to have a highly mobile character as the party healer, meanwhile a sniper is usually rooted in place if he want to fire his gun. An SMG, Brawler or even a shotgunner, maybe AR would work MUCH better.

 

[TheDiceMustRoll]

I made a sniper/melee duo and the AI, on normal, just nukes my sniper in every fight and kills him.

 

[Haplo]

Have him stay further back and/or eliminate threats faster, before they can hurt you. Its very much an alpha strike game.
Oh, and use turrets/deployable bots/decoys. They are quite good at taking the heat off your guys (might be the only way to play without alpha striking OR making a whole party of tanks). Plus staying in cover and using smoke granades helps a ton as well.

 

[TheDiceMustRoll]

Have him stay further back and/or eliminate threats faster, before they can hurt you. Its very much an alpha strike game.
Oh, and use turrets/deployable bots/decoys. They are quite good at taking the heat off your guys (might be the only way to play without alpha striking OR making a whole party of tanks). Plus staying in cover and using smoke granades helps a ton as well.

I just refunded the game - mostly because I found out it goes waaay down during steam sales, so I can wait

 

[Infinitron]

Huh: https://www.inxile-entertainment.com/post/fantastical-costumes-coming-to-wasteland-3

Fantastical Costumes Coming to Wasteland 3

The sun crests the horizon as the party approaches the heart of the broken town. The smoldering embers of the previous day’s battle with the Filthurburgs (semi-human denizens of the bog) fill your lungs, and the stench of turmeric and sulfur weave together with notes of dead flesh and wet dog. Ahead of you, Farani Brygoson’s parapet looms in the distance. (You’ve already been summoned so you won’t have to roll for initiative this time.) As you enter the gate to the forlorn castle within the township’s walls, a Fel-Gnome assaults you with its ugliness before attempting to assault you with its fists. Fortunately, you’ve brought with you Glamdror the Magnificent, and Sir Kelkeep the Brave! There are others but you’ve forgotten their names… As the Fel-Gnome lashes out from the archway, Glamdror incants a spell learned from ye olden dayes when magic filled the sky and wizards would stand naked on the hilltops early in the morning and cry out to the heavens. Faster than the blink of an eye, the mage thrusts his arms forward with rapacious delight. As his eyes are lit from the mystical blue glow emanating from his hands you hear a *sizzle pop* before a temporary blindness overcomes you. A moment later you can see that Glamdror has encased the sad and stinky creature before you in some kind of ice that seems less cold than freezing but is probably cooler than warm. Through their translucent arcane prison, the beast looks upon you with bewilderment and a slight hint of mournful curiosity as they begin to shimmy inside… they’re attempting to break free!

What do you do?

Venture into Wasteland 3’s next big update—Patch 1.3.0 “Robots & Rangers”—with two free new costumes, the Handmade Wizard and Knight! Patch 1.3.0 is undergoing some final fixes and testing, and we expect it to release by the end of the month. You’ll receive these new costumes after completing the Garden of the Gods—either claiming them from a package in front of Ranger HQ for new playthroughs, or automatically added if you’re past that point—and can equip them at the wardrobe in Ranger HQ or at the clothing shop in Downtown Colorado Springs.

The ‘Handmade Wizard and Knight’ costumes were a collaboration between inXile and Dimitri Zaitsev, an accomplished post-apocalyptic costume designer and artist. We were excited to work with Dimitri and asked him if he’d walk us through his thoughts and process for creating post-apocalyptic costumes and props.

Q: Have you done anything like this before? Blending fantasy and post-apoc?

I’ve never done a post-apoc wizard or knight before, but the general thought process behind them was not new to me at all. The genre lends itself extremely well to ALL kinds of inspirations, and that is one of many reasons I love it. While there are prominent examples and tropes, there is actually no unified definition of what "post-apo" even means for the most part. The only fixed thing is that it´s "something after an apocalypse". But what the world looked like before or what has evolved after - that´s always the interesting problem for artists and designers to solve.

"Wasteland Knight" concept by Dimitri.

But the more important question here is: how do the designs fit Wasteland specifically? Wasteland is based on a retro-futuristic version of America during the 80s and 90s, followed by a nuclear apocalypse. That per-se is not fantasy, but the universe has a TON of humor and fantastic elements in the mix as some of its integral defining parts. There are a lot of super-crazy factions, characters, designs and even gameplay mechanics already. Just think of the Payasos, or the Monster Army, or the goat mortar you can mount on your car, or the one NPC who wears pristine suits and never curses.... So I don´t think that these new outfits deviate from the game's baseline level at all.

Spoiler

“Historical fact and fiction would get mixed up, so maybe the Wizard thinks that wizards were real, and that the 12-sided die worn around the neck is a real magical amulet.”

Q: What were your first thoughts and inspirations when the initial idea was proposed?

My first thought was "Hell yeah!", and my inspiration were wizards and knights - what else could it be?

Aaron (Aaron Meyers, Wasteland 3 Art Director) and I agreed that it would make sense if those outfits were created by wastelanders who got wind of knights and wizards being a thing in the world before the Deluge of Fire, became fans of those ideas, and decided to (re)create them - or at least take some inspiration from them. Historical fact and fiction would get mixed up, so maybe the Wizard thinks that wizards were real, and that the 12-sided die worn around the neck is a real magical amulet. Or maybe they know it´s not real but have assumed the persona anyway. They might mean it dead-serious, or they might be wearing it ironically or just for fun, or even to scam others by selling them "magic potions" which are just frog pee. Or maybe before joining the Rangers the wizard used to travel around towns and use their "magic" powers to give real medical aid to sick children & tell them stories while doing so. Or maybe those costumes were simply used by a post-apocalyptic theatre group to create plays of knights and wizards for their audience. There can be so many interpretations for this, and I love it.

"Wasteland Wizard" concept by Dimitri.

Part of my task was to create something that looks aesthetically appealing and well-balanced while still maintaining the idea that the fictional in-game person who made it had to work with limited resources & skills available to them. You can see that the knight was able to scavenge some authentic armor parts from a museum, the wizard has repurposed an electric Christmas star, and both characters have used a lot of various scrap materials & whatever tools they could get their hands on in this world of scarcity.

Other than that, I just took the archetypes of a wizard and a knight and mixed them with the ideas described above. It was important that the designs look as cliché as possible in their main shapes, so that they are immediately recognizable as what they are supposed to be.

Q: Are there any core design ‘tenets’ or rules you have when thinking in the post-apoc mindset and how you approach a given design?

Post-apoc or not, I just think about how things would work in the given part of the given universe, and then I create the design going from large parts to small ones while applying the core fundamentals of art (color, composition, etc.) to make it visually pleasing. Doing so feels as immersive and mentally rewarding as playing a game or watching a movie.

Final models and textures for Handmade Wizard and Knight.

Specifically in a post-apocalyptic setting though, you have to think about what materials and tools people would have available. Most of the time it´s going be something dilapidated, rusty, broken down, and improvised. Or sometimes not - some things can be found in bunkers, be manufactured rather well by post-collapse societies, and thus look new, and even employ futuristic technologies. But then you have to balance them out with dirtier gear to achieve an overall look of what´s easily understood by the player as "post-apocalyptic" - in most cases anyway, there can be no 100% dogmatic approach to this. You also must think about what would be reasonably practical in general, and then balance practicality with "the rule of cool."

As for finding ideas for the details of a design, I just think of "what could any given item be used as, regardless of it's original intended pre-war purpose." And sometimes I go a step further and think "…but what original intended purpose would make its current use even more interesting?"

In-game Handmade Knight and Wizard costumes.

There is a LOT more to all of this once you really start breaking it down though. I could fill whole volumes with this stuff. Anyone who wants to hear more from me about art, post-apo costuming, and gear should check out my YouTube channel.

Q: Thanks for taking the time to give us more insight! Anything else you want to share with readers?

Check out my Facebook, Instagram, and ArtStation, and I hope you will have fun with these outfits when (re)playing Wasteland 3! And hey, there miiiiiight be more of my designs showing up in the game soon, who knows.

Who knows, indeed! (Actually, we do.) Thanks again to Dimitri for helping us create these fantastical costumes. Keep an eye out for more news regarding Patch 1.3.0 releasing for Wasteland 3 soon, and more costumes to help you RP it up in future patches.

 

[TheDiceMustRoll]

Isn't this game getting story DLC?

 

[Acrux]

Huh: https://www.inxile-entertainment.com/post/fantastical-costumes-coming-to-wasteland-3

I want to love the game, but they are fighting me at every decision. Please, please, please just rebalance and give me the story DLCs. If I want to play D&D, I already have IWD and ToEE.

 

[TheDiceMustRoll]

Huh: https://www.inxile-entertainment.com/post/fantastical-costumes-coming-to-wasteland-3

I want to love the game, but they are fighting me at every decision. Please, please, please just rebalance and give me the story DLCs. If I want to play D&D, I already have IWD and ToEE.

What do you think needs a rebalance? I think they should calm down with the suicide enemies a bit.

 

[Acrux]

What do you think needs a rebalance? I think they should calm down with the suicide enemies a bit.

Honestly, the rebalance I'd really like, I probably won't get - I don't like how almost every encounter right now is an "alpha strike". Almost everything ends by the first or second turn. W2DC had it's own issues, but the encounters mostly felt right.

If they can't or won't rebalance, then wish more modding was available. Even with as little support as W2DC had, there were still some overall very good mods that came out of it (Red Boots). It feels like there's potential with W3, too.

 

[TheDiceMustRoll]

What do you think needs a rebalance? I think they should calm down with the suicide enemies a bit.

Honestly, the rebalance I'd really like, I probably won't get - I don't like how almost every encounter right now is an "alpha strike". Almost everything ends by the first or second turn. W2DC had it's own issues, but the encounters mostly felt right.

If they can't or won't rebalance, then wish more modding was available. Even with as little support as W2DC had, there were still some overall very good mods that came out of it (Red Boots). It feels like there's potential with W3, too.

I dunno if I really want combats to last longer, unless there were fewer of them.

That said, I do agree, because most of my 15 hours has been my taking my first turn, seeing if I get fucked hard on the enemy turn and quickloading if I do.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

I don't know why the fuck they would add these costumes, but that artwork is sweet, it really looks like a fantasy costume some postapo wastelanders could put together.