Game News Wasteland 3 coming to Fig on October 5th, introducing two player co-op and cinematic conversations

[Mustawd]

Fairfax , you want to see a nefarious corporate structure? There you go:

Spoiler

Take notice of the upper left hand corner.

Now compare that to Fig:

Spoiler

 

[Mustawd]

Typical PE Fund Structures: Already more complicated than most people are used to seeing

Hardly.

Spoiler

Lol, I meant in terms of businesses. But duly noted.

 

[Bubbles]

For Wasteland 2 console sales amounted for 1/6 of sales!?

Do you think that's high or low?

 

[sser]

Now compare that to Fig:

Spoiler

Unironic use of pyramids.

 

[Mustawd]

 

[J_C]

Christ...the ignorance here.

Also, Fig's CEO defense was pretty weak:

Actually, I think the CEO's reply is very well thought out and 100% correct.

He never claims to be an expert, and everything he says is based on sources linked in the description.

A. He says he has a Master's in Accounting, which means jack shit as someone who also has a Master's in Accounting. What really matters is industry knowledge and experience from actually working with companies and reading the contracts that these partnerships are based on. Yet, he throws out his "credentials" as a way to get credibility for his ignorant statements.

B. Everything is in the source description, correct. It's also correct to say he seems to be misinterpreting a lot of it.

He doesn't deny everything in the video, and says some claims are "heavy with hyperbole", which means they're not entirely false, just exaggerated (in his view).

For one, this is probably not the only source that's misunderstanding how Private Equity works. Second, he is right that they are exaggerated. For example, there's nothing wrong with a shell company. We use the term "shell company" or "holding company" or "parent company" in accounting all the time. There's nothing wrong with that term.

Legally, it's just a way to structure different entities under one holding company. That way you can always add more entities to said holding company and a variety of other reasons to structure it that way (some legal and some tax related). However, the way it's described, "shell" company sounds like some kind of nefarious scheme that no one ever does except for the schemers! *clutches pearls*

First of all, every shell company has a purpose and reason for being. That excuse doesn't mean shit.

You.......are....an idiot.

I just love when Mustawd brakes down the argument of people who know jack shit about accounting and economics. It almost gets my dick hard.

It happened in the Fig thread once, it seems it is starting again.

 

[FeelTheRads]

I just love when Mustawd brakes down the argument of people who know jack shit about account and economics.

Especially since you are clueless about it.
Plebs are always easily impressed when their superiors say something.

 

[Fairfax]

Mustawd

There's nothing inherently wrong with a shell company, and yeah, they're legal, I said that. My point is that the whole thing is shady, because it is. The guy in the video does paint extreme scenarios, but I've yet to see an explanation as to why they're impossible. Fig's CEO said they were defamatory, which is one way to deflect any concerns.

You're also ignoring the fact most of this information was not available in the investor page in fig's website.
This was the investment page for Fig's first project.

They only tell you about Fig Productions 1 and a rough estimate of how much money you can make. The only added more details after that video was released. People didn't even know about all the other companies and the fine print.

"Oh, but these guys are sharks, they should do their research!". Fair enough, but now Fig is taking investments from anyone, and the investment page is extremely vague and simplified.

For WL3, here's the structure they show in the investor page:

Which is bullshit. None of the subsidiaries and shell companies are included there. If absolutely nothing wrong could come out of the way they're structured, why hide it?

And if you want more details, they tell you to read the SEC filings (something they didn't include in the earlier projects):

Please read the Investment Materials for this opportunity available once you begin the investment process. Also, additional information about Fig can be found in its SEC filings online at www.sec.gov.

Fig's SEC Filings

You have to be an idiot if you think giving potential investors vague details and promises and telling them to read the SEC filings to know how shit works is normal.

 

[J_C]

I just love when Mustawd brakes down the argument of people who know jack shit about account and economics.

Especially since you are clueless about it.
Plebs are always easily impressed when their superiors say something.

I'm not ashamed admitting that there are people who know more about this than me. But I certainly know that there are idiots who know shit, yet they are acting like they do. And I like seeing those that know a lot educating those who know shit.

Mustawd

There's nothing inherently wrong with a shell company, and yeah, they're legal, I said that. My point is that the whole thing is shady, because it is. The guy in the video does paint extreme scenarios, but I've yet to see an explanation as to why they're impossible. Fig's CEO said they were defamatory, which is one way to deflect any concerns.

You're also ignoring the fact most of this information was not available in the investor page in fig's website.
This was the investment page for Fig's first project.

They only tell you about Fig Productions 1 and a rough estimate of how much money you can make. The only added more details after that video was released. People didn't even know about all the other companies and the fine print.

"Oh, but these guys are sharks, they should do their research!". Fair enough, but now Fig is taking investments from anyone, and the investment page is extremely vague and simplified.

For WL3, here's the structure they show in the investor page:

Which is bullshit. None of the subsidiaries and shell companies are included there. If absolutely nothing wrong could come out of the way they're structured, why hide it?

And if you want more details, they tell you to read the SEC filings (something they didn't include in the earlier projects):

Please read the Investment Materials for this opportunity available once you begin the investment process. Also, additional information about Fig can be found in its SEC filings online at www.sec.gov.

Fig's SEC Filings

You have to be an idiot if you think giving potential investors vague details and promises and telling them to read the SEC filings to know how shit works is normal.

I think most of the investors in this case are not huge companies who invest hundreds of thousands of dollars, but regular people who have a spare few thousands. You have to have a simple breakdown for these people to understand how this is working, you certainly you don't want to burden them with the SEC filing, because there is a good chance they wouldn't understand it. And those investors who are playing big will check the SEC filing. This is is still a videogame crowdfunding site, you have to keep it simple.

 

[vortex]

There was some Fig project about sci fi RPG similar to Deus Ex. Remind me the name. Tower something... How is this project going?

But, Wasteland 3 deserves funding. I want true Fallout spiritual succesor no matter what.

 

[Fry]

It's always nice when the Codexians you always knew were idiots choose new ways to prove it.

 

[Fairfax]

I just love when Mustawd brakes down the argument of people who know jack shit about account and economics.

Especially since you are clueless about it.
Plebs are always easily impressed when their superiors say something.

I'm not ashamed admitting that there are people who know more about this than me. But I certainly know that there are idiots who know shit, yet they are acting like they do. And I like seeing those that know a lot educating those who know shit.

So you have no idea what the hell others are talking about, yet you still get off to people who act superior? Cuck tag serves you well, then.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

For Wasteland 2 console sales amounted for 1/6 of sales!?

Do you think that's high or low?

High. Was expecting it to be slightly below 10%.

 

[Mustawd]

They only tell you about Fig Productions 1 and a rough estimate of how much money you can make. The only added more details after that video was released. People didn't even know about all the other companies and the fine print.

Well, no. They were in SEC filings. You know..the things that are there for investors to read? The things that the guy in the video is referring to?


I've said this before in the Fig thread that this is a perfect reason why the accredited investor category exists. There is a level of familiarity and sophistication (in terms of economics/business/financial matters) that an investor with a high net worth has (or can outsource) that some Joe Blow with $20 does not.


For example, do you think most nonaccredited investors are aware that they have zero voting rights? I bet you a lot of people would be surprised to hear that.

You have to be an idiot if you think giving potential investors vague details and promises and telling them to read the SEC filings to know how shit works is normal.

No man. This IS how investing works. Why do you think the SEC makes my company disclose all kinds of reports? Because an informed investor, someone who puts their money into a company, SHOULD be reading these.


Fairfax, if you're going to sign a contract, do you read the contract or do you just take the dude's word for it? No, you read the damn thing (if you want to keep your shirt). Reading the Fig website is the equivalent of just listening to the apartment sales guy alk you through your lease instead of you actually reading it.

 

[J_C]

I just love when Mustawd brakes down the argument of people who know jack shit about account and economics.

Especially since you are clueless about it.
Plebs are always easily impressed when their superiors say something.

I'm not ashamed admitting that there are people who know more about this than me. But I certainly know that there are idiots who know shit, yet they are acting like they do. And I like seeing those that know a lot educating those who know shit.

So you have no idea what the hell others are talking about, yet you still get off to people who act superior? Cuck tag serves you well, then.

I am an economist, and altough I haven't worked in the accounting area, I think I have a good enough understanding of this. Not as musch as Mustawd who seems to be working in this area, but probably more than you do.

 

[Mustawd]

This is is still a videogame crowdfunding site, you have to keep it simple.

No. This is investing. Keeping it simple just makes you lose the details. Which is the case here.

If something is too complicated you really shouldn't get involved into it. Or at least be prepared to have a lot lost in translation.


EDIT: I predict a lot of butthurt from Fig. It should be a glorious megathread.

 

[Black]

There was some Fig project about sci fi RPG similar to Deus Ex. Remind me the name. Tower something... How is this project going?

But, Wasteland 3 deserves funding. I want true Fallout spiritual succesor no matter what.

Uh huh, throw all your money at it, I'm sure co-op and cinematic is what Fallout was always trying to be but those darn pesky technological limitations.

 

[J_C]

This is is still a videogame crowdfunding site, you have to keep it simple.

No. This is investing. Keeping it simple just makes you lose the details. Which is the case here.

If something is too complicated you really shouldn't get involved into it. Or at least be prepared to have a lot lost in translation.


EDIT: I predict a lot of butthurt from Fig. It should be a glorious megathread.

As I see it Fargo and Co wanted to keep the description simple because there might be unaccredited investors who would be burdened with the complexity of it. I'm not saying it is a good thing, but one has to take this into consideration.

 

[Bubbles]

I doubt that WL3 will be better than Fallout 1.5.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

There was some Fig project about sci fi RPG similar to Deus Ex. Remind me the name. Tower something... How is this project going?

https://www.fig.co/campaigns/consortium-the-tower#updates
They have given only 1 (backer only) update since being funded.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

Speaking of accredited and unaccredited investors:




Haven't really been following all the details on FIG or Psychonauts but a couple of the comments imply the company structure used to be more opaque and risky for small investors than it is now

 

[Sentinel]

I want true Fallout spiritual succesor no matter what.

You won't get it from Brian Fargo.

 

[J_C]

Speaking of accredited and unaccredited investors:




Haven't really been following all the details on FIG or Psychonauts but a couple of the comments imply the company structure used to be more opaque and risky for small investors than it is now

Nice to see that this got settled, although one has to wonder how could they launch this fig project with these legal issues.

 

[Fairfax]

They only tell you about Fig Productions 1 and a rough estimate of how much money you can make. The only added more details after that video was released. People didn't even know about all the other companies and the fine print.

Well, no. They were in SEC filings. You know..the things that are there for investors to read? The things that the guy in the video is referring to?


I've said this before in the Fig thread that this is a perfect reason why the accredited investor category exists. There is a level of familiarity and sophistication (in terms of economics/business/financial matters) that an investor with a high net worth has (or can outsource) that some Joe Blow with $20 does not.


For example, do you think most nonaccredited investors are aware that they have zero voting rights? I bet you a lot of people would be surprised to hear that.

You have to be an idiot if you think giving potential investors vague details and promises and telling them to read the SEC filings to know how shit works is normal.

No man. This IS how investing works. Why do you think the SEC makes my company disclose all kinds of reports? Because an informed investor, someone who puts their money into a company, SHOULD be reading these.


Fairfax, if you're going to sign a contract, do you read the contract or do you just take the dude's word for it? No, you read the damn thing (if you want to keep your shirt). Reading the Fig website is the equivalent of just listening to the apartment sales guy alk you through your lease instead of you actually reading it.

No, the actual investors don't read all that shit. They'd probably read this WL3 offering memo (it's why this kind of memo exists in the first place). If the investment sounds interesting, they have an accountant see how it's structured and how the revenue would come, and then a lawyer would take a look at the agreements. No doubt they'd be aware of the risks involved and how they operate. I never disputed that.

However, the purpose of that video was to show how risky and how shady Fig is structured to people who don't have those resources, because Fig is selling shares to the average joe, not just the sharks.

 

[Mustawd]

No, the actual investors don't read all that shit.

Please enlighten us from your vast amount of experience with investors and SEC filings.