Incline What can be done about excessive loot?

[lukaszek]

Like with MUDs and early MMOs there was an attempt to make a realistic economy, each sword was made by a blacksmith and they decayed over time so swords are valuable in the world.

having wear&tear is one way. Introducing leveled loot so that player will be replacing everything every 2 levels is another...

 

[Decado]

Make loot collection realistic and the problem solves itself. You can only carry a few swords before it's just unwieldy. Ever tried taking the armor off a dead guy? It would take 15 fucking minutes at least. Plus, if you just killed him how valuable is his armor anyway, now that it is burned/crushed/corroded/pierced?

Pretty damn valuable, actually. There's a reason that it was common for people to loot battlefields and strip the dead and dying of their valuable wargear, a practice that still happens today. Loot value keeps getting out of hand because players keep having to kill and thus loot unrealistic number of enemies.

You are correct in that after battles, contingents of soldiers/peasants/hangers-on who were pressed into service were required to strip the dead of weapons, armor and other valuables. But this was a laborious process, in some cases taking days, and was a massive logistical operation requiring wagons, horses, ships, etc. The reason that broken swords and destroyed armor were valuable is because they could be fixed and reforged, or melted down. But in order to do that, you had to have facilities, guarded shipping routes, and a fairly sophisticated operation -- this is why when a city was looted, soldiers were required to deliver captured loot (though of course, they kept some) so that it could be sent back, appraised, apportioned out, and so on. This is not to say that individual warriors did not loot the dead, because they did. But take your average Crusader, just an as an example. During a hard day of slaying Saracens, he was not stopping to strip each body of armor and weapons; it is simply not practical. He might grab a particularly nice looking piece, but the idea that he would walk around with 10 swords is just ridiculous. More likely, he would be grabbing rings, purses, belt-buckles, jewels/stones from pommels, and so on.

 

[good fucking shit happen]

Two Worlds solved this fucking problem already. If you find two swords that are the same you can just slap those together to create a better sword. Solved. You can lock the thread now.

 

[Bigg Boss]

I bought that for hardly any money because I heard the magic system is great. Have not installed yet.

 

[Norfleet]

But take your average Crusader, just an as an example. During a hard day of slaying Saracens, he was not stopping to strip each body of armor and weapons; it is simply not practical. He might grab a particularly nice looking piece, but the idea that he would walk around with 10 swords is just ridiculous. More likely, he would be grabbing rings, purses, belt-buckles, jewels/stones from pommels, and so on.

But here's the rub: In the vast majority of RPGs, we're not crusaders, pressed forward by some military necessity to move on quickly and discouraged from looting by martial culture and regulation. We're a bunch of freelance murderhobos. You better believe a bunch of homeless psychopaths would walk off with the 10 swords they found.

 

[Silverfish]

That brings us back to "arbitrary, artificial methods of trying to stop looting" when you're hellbent on making the player kill unrealistic numbers of enemies, yes.

Yes, like in a video game.

 

[good fucking shit happen]

I bought that for hardly any money because I heard the magic system is great. Have not installed yet.

Magic system is dope as fuck, I finished it as a necromancer gassing everyone. OP as shit. Sequel dumbed things down for the console kids but the magic system got fucking retardedly good cuz you could customize the spells completely. Want to make a spell that zaps all the motherfuckers by spreading? Done. Wanna add a gravity well to it? Done. Early TES custom spells on steroids baby. Can even make yourself fly with the right components. Two Worlds II lategame for wizards is like playing as Neo at the end of the Matrix except even more fun.

 

[Norfleet]

That brings us back to "arbitrary, artificial methods of trying to stop looting" when you're hellbent on making the player kill unrealistic numbers of enemies, yes.

Yes, like in a video game.

Yes, well, better vidya games try to avoid dragging you out of the zone with dealing with a stupid vidya-gamey thing. Shit like "you have to rob your enemies BEFORE they die or they don't give you any loot" is the kind of thing that really detracts from the game.

 

[mediocrepoet]

That brings us back to "arbitrary, artificial methods of trying to stop looting" when you're hellbent on making the player kill unrealistic numbers of enemies, yes.

Yes, like in a video game.

Disgusting things. I try to avoid them when I can.

 

[laclongquan]

That brings us back to "arbitrary, artificial methods of trying to stop looting" when you're hellbent on making the player kill unrealistic numbers of enemies, yes.

Yes, like in a video game.

Yes, well, better vidya games try to avoid dragging you out of the zone with dealing with a stupid vidya-gamey thing. Shit like "you have to rob your enemies BEFORE they die or they don't give you any loot" is the kind of thing that really detracts from the game.

This remind me of robbery in Jagged Alliance 2. You can hit a target 3 unarmed strike and he fall down to ground. Use Ctrl Click on the body to rob their weapons, which should cost 20AP (in 25 AP system). After successfully rob him, kill him will yield only armors and or miscelanous, no weapon.

Every robbery is a full tactical coordination between at least 2 guys.

 

[laclongquan]

Speaking of Jagged Alliance 2, it control excessive loot pretty well.

1. Very limited number of merchants, and each has limited stock, and you dont always want to take everything they got. So it's often that you carry a bunch of stuffs to a shop and can sell off only half that.

2. Merchants are very far from battlefields, because you know, they are in safe town. So each trip to shop is a full course operation: guy carry full inventory, then move through several zones, to get there. Luxurious Spendthrift can hire helicopter to carry them in a fast manner but that's burning cash~

3. Your inventory is limited So each merc can carry a limited number of stuffs.

At end game, it come to that you can arrange a few stashes in certain towns, full of your unsold loot. But anyway, it's not matter because you want to buy good stuffs online and have it dropped to airports. So what you need is cash, and control two airports

 

[Daemongar]

I think if I were to devise a system, I'd base it off of Advanced D&D. Players would find items and gold. During a session, the DM would grant items to chars on the fly and they could use them as found. At the end of each "module" or return to town, the players would have to share/distribute the treasure. So all loot would be given/shared among the party.

In old pnp games, the players would share loot. If there *was* a +2 sword, a Cloak of Elvinkind, and 10,000 gps found - there was no way to distribute equitably. So, items have a GP value. In our games, if there were 5 players, one would get the +2 sword, one would get the cloak, and the other 3 would get 3,333 gps each. In return, those 3 could sacrifice that gold to their church for 1 to 1 xps, or spend it or save it. It cost money to train for the next level, and it cost money for a keep at higher levels.

An ideal loot system would have average loot, but an unobtainable top level - so that the party members with the best magic would be balanced by the party members with higher levels. This is how it worked out around the table, but its never been implemented in a crpg. For crpgs, the game could automatically assign loot in this manner rather than me the player doing it, but it would reflect a
real tabletop feel.

 

[Peachcurl]

I find it kinda funny that most "solutions" to excessive loot seem to be to keep the excessive loot but make the player more or less unable to actually take it / profit from it.

What's the point of having all that loot in the first place?

 

[Norfleet]

This remind me of robbery in Jagged Alliance 2. You can hit a target 3 unarmed strike and he fall down to ground. Use Ctrl Click on the body to rob their weapons, which should cost 20AP (in 25 AP system). After successfully rob him, kill him will yield only armors and or miscelanous, no weapon.

Oh, yes, THAT'S where I remember this from.

Speaking of Jagged Alliance 2, it control excessive loot pretty well.

JA2 is what I remember for being terrible in its original, pre-1.13 form, for the aforementioned hokeyness of the loot system, where you can't swipe someone's gun unless you go through this bizarre process of mugging him.

 

[Vic]

if a game has to rely on loot to motivate players to explore, it's a boring, shallow game like all Bethesda titles.

 

[Shadowfang]

What's the point of having all that loot in the first place?

So the player can have, you know, choice?
Will i bring with me this piece of armor or instead these 4 vials of useful potions. Profit or survivability?

Ultima Underworld dealt with loot pretty well. Its amazing how many things that game got right that have been forgotten through the ages.
Deus Ex is also a good example.

 

[Peachcurl]

What's the point of having all that loot in the first place?

So the player can have, you know, choice?
Will i bring with me this piece of armor or instead these 4 vials of useful potions. Profit or survivability?

You don't need excess to provide choice.

 

[Shadowfang]

What's the point of having all that loot in the first place?

So the player can have, you know, choice?
Will i bring with me this piece of armor or instead these 4 vials of useful potions. Profit or survivability?

You don't need excess to provide choice.

If is excess is more stuff than you can carry, and if your perfect model is i can carry everything i want your only choices will be either more or less loot.
Not really meaningful.

 

[Peachcurl]

"More than you can carry" is nearly every RPG out there. That's hardly what anyone means by excessive loot, unless you're being fussy with semantics.

 

[Bohrain]

I think the inventory management and items ought to be designed with the idea in mind that there should be a reason for the player to pick up any item. If loot is just an array of objects you pick up and turn to money with a press of a button the system isn't really engaging in any shape or form.
Design decisions like inventory weight is bit of a double edged sword. On one hand if you have a poor system to begin with where the player is showered procedurally generated vendor trash, not having inventory weight usually saves from the hassle of having to drop out the less valuable garbage. But generally speaking items having value to weight ratio is a good thing, since it adds a layer of thought process. Equipment durability is also potentially a good thing if it incentivizes using lower tier equipment. Less so if it's just a money sink to keep up your current equipment. One thing that's been done less is playing with incentives to utilize an item in short term vs long term. Like if your inventory is near full, you could make up room by consuming items in a non-optimal way.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

I like how Underrail implements looting. If you are fast in disabling an enemy you will be able to loot more resources from him/her. If you are slow, the enemy will use these resource during the combat, and there will less to loot after. What you will be able to loot is not random, but depends on the enemy and what happens during combat.

 

[Norfleet]

That's the sensible way looting would work, yes. That everything that would be rightly on their corpse is, in fact, on their corpse. Of course, the excessiveness happens when we then have to mow down gallons of guys with high-end gear (because guys with crappy gear wouldn't otherwise pose a challenge due to the game being too heavily gear-dependent)...

 

[Sykar]

Less loot more fight!

 

[Kabas]

I find it kinda funny that most "solutions" to excessive loot seem to be to keep the excessive loot but make the player more or less unable to actually take it / profit from it.

What's the point of having all that loot in the first place?

Can't agree with this more.
Playing all these diablo clones and alien shooter 2 made me realize just how beautiful is the sight of screen littered with enemy corpses, compared to screen littered with greyed out names like "sword of warrior 10-21 damage"

 

[Shadowfang]

"More than you can carry" is nearly every RPG out there. That's hardly what anyone means by excessive loot, unless you're being fussy with semantics.

I am sorry Peachcurl, maybe i am misrepresenting your point. I am probably biased from the codex discussion of inventory restriction where i found out that many codex peasants what a vacuum cleaner attached to a bag of holding instead of any inventory restriction.
I also think that many games offer more loot than they should but not because it bothers autistic player having to got back and forth to get it all but because it diminished the value of said loot.

Yes i got this sweet looking sword from an Elf merchant hidden in the woods that is about to get obsolete 1 mission after. Thanks Witcher 3, really well done.
From all the Witchers i think the 1st one handled loot better. Few items but meaningful.