What constitutes an RPG - and what makes a game not an RPG

[hexer]

What if every game is a RPG because you assume a role other than yourself as defined by game's programming code limitations?

 

[Bruma Hobo]

If the player doesn't get to define that role (preferably through stats, classes, and an alignment system), that's not a role-playing game. That's the whole point of RPGs.

 

[Citizen]

Any game is an RPG if you believe LARP hard enough

 

[Bruma Hobo]

Notepad is still unsurpassed, I agree.

 

[Citizen]

If you didn't LARP a pilot of a crashed chopper trying to get out of mine riddled vietnam jungle in a minesweeper we have nothing to talk about

 

[Crispy]

The crud that builds up on the most-frequently used keys on my keyboard is NOT an RPG.

 

[Glop_dweller]

An RPG is like a window into another world that the player can but peer into and suggest intent for the character. It asks not, "What would you do in their place?", but rather, ""what would they do?—what could they do?". The player may only observe what narrative the PC manages to accomplish; see behind only what locked doors the PC can open, what enemies the PC can defeat—or outsmart. It is very much a game about the PC themselves in their own situations, with only their personal skill & abilities to see them through it.

The whole thing behaves very much like one of those novelty Claw machines that people play in malls and arcades; where the claw (in this case) is their PC (behind the glass, and with all of its quirks and mechanical failings)... They choose only the intent (grab the toy), and it does its own autonomous [personal] best to achieve this—probably dropping it many times.

In this example, a Claw [PC] with perfect stats has magnetic tips, Velcro grips, and fishhooks on the chain.

Essentially the game provides the player with a pawn; possessed of varying degrees of skill & aptitude. The campaign(s) is the common thread of events, and each pawn is able to handle things a bit differently (for better or worse), and the game presents how their life in the game world plays out.

Games where (or simply played such that) the PC is merely a digital costume/ or avatar of the player, are the poorest form of RPG—if they are at all. Notice in Fallout, that it is the PC who aims the gun (at the chosen target), and who swings the hammer; succeeding by personal skill, while in FO3 it is the player who personally aims & fires the weapons instead; succeeding for the PC—who might not even be that good of a shot. In Fallout 2, the PC's intelligence filters the dialog of the world, as well as including, or excluding them from certain conversations.

In The Witcher, the player picks the target, and Geralt runs to, then attacks them, but in Witcher 2, Geralt merely flails about with the weapon anytime the player clicks the mouse—aiming at anything or nothing at all; hitting only when something happens to be close, and in front of him. This is out of character for Geralt—the master swordsman... who would never do that in a serious fight, and is actually handicapped by poorly skilled players. In Witcher 2, Geralt is merely a digital puppet whose strings are pulled for effect; who wins or loses competitions by happenstance of the player's skill in quicktime events. That's not roleplaying.

 

[Bohrain]

RPG is gam wtith numbers that go up bexus Gay Gigax invented numbers and dice roll.
End of the rine
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^rine ends here

 

[mondblut]

RPG is gam wtith numbers that go up bexus Gay Gigax invented numbers and dice roll.
End of the rine
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^rine ends here

That is correct.

 

[mondblut]

If you play through Fallout without ever spending any of your skill points on level up, it's not an RPG.

If you play through Pool of Radiance without ever going to the trainer to level up, it's not an RPG

They are RPGs, but you are no longer playing them like ones.

I present a little Schroedinger's RPG called Pools of Darkness. Whether it is an RPG or not depends entirely on the races in your party. If humans, an RPG it is. If demihumans who ain't thieves...whoopsies, you've hit a level cap before you finished character creation!

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Rpg is adventure game with battles and stats

Colossal Cave Adventure was inspired by RPGs (and spelunking).

I present a little Schroedinger's RPG called Pools of Darkness. Whether it is an RPG or not depends entirely on the races in your party. If humans, an RPG it is. If demihumans who ain't thieves...whoopsies, you've hit a level cap before you finished character creation!

Character progression is one of the fundamental components of the RPG genre, but it is possible for a game to be missing one or more of the components and nonetheless still be an RPG due to their strength in other fundamental aspects.

 

[mondblut]

Character progression is one of the fundamental components of the RPG genre, but it is possible for a game to be missing one or more of the components and nonetheless still be an RPG due to their strength in other fundamental aspects.

Not really. Within a typical tabletop module, you'll be lucky to level up once. And with all the "muh training is teh hard" house rules and even official DMG suggestions, your actual level up will take place after the adventure is done with and the credits roll in. And yet not everyone plays campaigns that last for years IRL taking your through dozens of dungeons and subsequent levelups.

Having stats matters. Getting them constantly bloat in the middle of a dungeon, not so much.

 

[Sigourn]

I present a little Schroedinger's RPG called Pools of Darkness. Whether it is an RPG or not depends entirely on the races in your party. If humans, an RPG it is. If demihumans who ain't thieves...whoopsies, you've hit a level cap before you finished character creation!

I never said Fallout or Pools of Darkness weren't RPGs, though, but if it suits your narrative...

The problem with these threads is that everyone has their own idea of what an RPG is, so coming up with a definition makes no sense because, in the end, it is subjective.

 

[Viata]

If your definition of RPG doesn't include Wizardry, then your definition is wrong. Simple as that.

 

[Sigourn]

If your definition of RPG doesn't include Wizardry, then your definition is wrong. Simple as that.

It's not that it doesn't include Wizardry. It simply doesn't include the most un-Wizardry Wizardry title. A far cry from "Skyrim is not an RPG because Skyrim is shit lol".

 

[Grauken]

If your definition of RPG doesn't include Wizardry, then your definition is wrong. Simple as that.

It's not that it doesn't include Wizardry. It simply doesn't include the most un-Wizardry Wizardry title. A far cry from "Skyrim is not an RPG because Skyrim is shit lol".

That's why these discussions are useless. Technically you could be correct, but saying Wizardry 4 is not a CRPG and sorting it in a different genre, because it doesn't fit some arbitrary definition when its most closely related to CRPGs than any other kind of game, is similar to saying the SIMS is a CRPG, because it fits many of those definitions, but nobody "seriously" considers it a CRPGs

 

[hexer]

Character progression is one of the fundamental components of the RPG genre, but it is possible for a game to be missing one or more of the components and nonetheless still be an RPG due to their strength in other fundamental aspects.

Not really. Within a typical tabletop module, you'll be lucky to level up once. And with all the "muh training is teh hard" house rules and even official DMG suggestions, your actual level up will take place after the adventure is done with and the credits roll in. And yet not everyone plays campaigns that last for years IRL taking your through dozens of dungeons and subsequent levelups.

Having stats matters. Getting them constantly bloat in the middle of a dungeon, not so much.

In every group I played or DM-ed people would level up whenever they wanted.
Some would level up immediately and some lazy-asses would take a few sessions.

 

[Cryomancer]

Everyone knows that what constitutes an RPG is Romanceable elf companions

Just kidding. RPG is role playing game. Needs mechanical and narrative character development and focus on this two things.

 

[Blaine]

After nearly two decades during which "What is an RPG?" threads have appeared at least once per year, no one has yet come up with an all-inclusive list of criteria nor a concise definition that everyone can agree upon.

That said, I'm not a pussy, so I'll take yet another stab at it.

For the sake of contrast, consider acting. Acting is the art of portraying characters for the purpose of entertaining audiences. Role-playing (sans "games" for the moment) in this context is the hobby or avocation of adopting the role of a character largely for one's own enjoyment―and by extension, the enjoyment of fellow participants. Historical reenactors role-play their characters, for example; reenactments have existed for centuries (example: the passion of Christ), although reenactments of religious significance and/or that are primarily meant to entertain an audience blur the line between acting and role-playing.

"BUT BLAINE DAT MEAN MARIO BROS. IS ROLE-PLAYING GAEM LMAO!!!!" Well, not really. Mario's identity, personality, and attributes are of no real importance to Super Mario Bros., aside from the most superficial theming. He could as easily be an anthropomorphic banana. Also, there's no real choice of roles. You only get Mario or palette swaps.

Ergo, in my opinion, the best catch-all definition of a role-playing game is a game in which players choose (emphasis on "choose") and adopt roles largely for the pleasure of exploring the roles themselves; gameplay is necessary as well in order to give the roles context, to pit them against challenges and hardships, and to indulge in the illusion that the character and its world really exist. To that end, good dialogue, C&C, and good world-building are very important. How "into it" they get (read: when it becomes LARPing) is another matter.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Not really. Within a typical tabletop module, you'll be lucky to level up once. And with all the "muh training is teh hard" house rules and even official DMG suggestions, your actual level up will take place after the adventure is done with and the credits roll in. And yet not everyone plays campaigns that last for years IRL taking your through dozens of dungeons and subsequent levelups.

Having stats matters. Getting them constantly bloat in the middle of a dungeon, not so much.

The typical CRPG is analogous to an entire pen-and-paper RPG campaign, not a single module, and involves numerous level-ups. The Gold Box games, ironically, were a bit of an oddity in how little leveling was involved.

In any case, the definition of RPG stems from pen-and-paper games, specifically Dungeons & Dragons, where characters at the beginning of a campaign start at level 1 and are weak but over the course of many adventures gradually acquire experience, gain levels, and become powerful figures in the campaign world, marking character progression as one of the key elements of RPGs and a significant departure from the static characters that might be found in squad-based tactics games.

Of course, this does not mean that a game must necessarily have character progression to be a CRPG, but the lack of it does move the game further away from the Platonic Ideal of an RPG and must be compensated for by other relevant aspects. If a game's character-, combat-, and exploration-related elements are not sufficiently RPG-like, then it isn't an RPG.