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What do you think about AoD?

Rate AoD

  • Good

    Votes: 123 58.3%
  • Bad

    Votes: 10 4.7%
  • Meh

    Votes: 78 37.0%

  • Total voters
    211
Joined
Oct 4, 2010
Messages
1,541
I only tried the first version of the demo, and that made a terrible impression as you couldn't read anything with the choice of font, and size.

I know there's an updated version, but the damage was already done, and due to the game's other faults (which others have listed here) i didn't feel like playing the newer version.

I voted "bad". A shame really.
 

Cassidy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
7,922
Location
Vault City
The game already features a fast travel system that takes as long as clicking on any important location on the town map. Why not use it instead of the forced teleporting for the encounters and design something a bit less scripted for the final Thieves Guild quest in Teron, for example?

I have tolerated far more jarring issues than that for otherwise good games, like Arcanum, which I also consider good rather than meh, but I can't help thinking AoD had more potential than what it will probably become. Considering it was done in the spare time of a small team, however, it remains impressive despite the technical limitations and the sluggish Torque engine that is an incentive to iron manning from how slow loading is.
 

toro

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
14,817
Gave the demo a try.

Pro: Combat + Decent Writing + Music + C&C + Different starts of the game.
Cons: Teleporting + Programmer's Art + Unavoidable Quests.

I'm not a graphic whore or maybe I just found out that I'm, but at some points, I had to search my character in that brown mass. Please use some better textures or models.
Also rotating the camera with the middle mouse button is a big NO-NO, please make bindable keys for that.
And yes, teleporting sucks. And it is confusing especially when you begin the game for the first time.

PS. And the constant popups.
If you implemented body parts targeting, there must be a way to see in one click the percentage for each body part.
I'm sorry to say, but the quality can be improved. Quite a lot.
 

CappenVarra

phase-based phantasmist
Patron
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
2,912
Location
Ardamai
And maybe give all characters an attack that pushes an opponent one square back with no or negligible damage, to give more real options beyond choosing between a high-risk attack and low-risk attack with similar average damage expectations.
To be fair, such attacks are already in the game, they're just not available to all characters (as you suggest). Pushback? Shield bash. The spear special can also prevent the enemy from closing. Hammers and aimed shots to the head can knock them down. If there are multiple enemies, whirlwind can be highly effective (but depends on the weapon and opponent defenses), etc. But each of those requires a character built and equipped to use it...

So I guess the idea was that if you want those options, you pay for them by giving up other ones - whereas a more "classic" approach would be to give all combat options to all combat chars, and have skill point investment make then more awesome. But in that case, I guess people would be complaining how raising skills doesn't bring drastic enough changes or whatnot :) And the low number of viable options at the start, which increases as the character progresses to the game is more "low key" and anti-awesome (as the whole game tries to be?). Or that's how I interpret it.
 

Quetzacoatl

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 13, 2011
Messages
1,819
Location
Aztlán
Demo felt too much like a CYOA book than a game. The teleporting didn't help either. I'm confident that VD will make improvements though.
 

l3loodAngel

Proud INTJ
Patron
Edgy
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Messages
1,452
Maybe if it was about the money you'd come off as more passionate.
:bravo:

You are not helping the retard side either.

I already defended this statement; care to show how I am wrong?
Most of great painters were poor during their life time, they were poor and under appreciated, but it didn't quench their passion... Maybe you have something to back your statement with if you are not a douche bag retard?

But it seems a big consensus, for the Codex that is.
Perhaps porting should be optional for the sake of immursion.
 

Jasede

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
24,793
Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
Most of great painters is a blanket statement with no proof to back it up.
I could say "Most great painters painted for money, or for a patron that funded them." and not back it up and I'd be as idiotic as you are being.

All right.

* Leonardo da Vinci painted for patrons
* Albrecht Durer said he was in it for the money
* Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, while not a painter, was an extremely wealthy writer who is still revered as the greatest German poet of all time
* Pablo Picasso became tremendously wealthy due to his art

And before you bother, here are some notoriously poor ones:

* Friedrich Schiller, a playwright
* Vermeer, a painter

We can research this as long as we want and we'll both come up with lots of names to make our case.
 

Cassidy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
7,922
Location
Vault City
You can't compare painting, which was historically funded by rich patrons who appreciated the value of art, with the games industry, funded by corporations catering to the lowest common denominator and by the same which gives a shit about how much "love" was made on the last popamole that made them feel AWESOME with all the achievements they unlocked. Because in painting, you could pursue a very high standard and still get a good income from it, not only pursue, but the patrons actually expected such standards instead of the shit mass marketing demands.
 

l3loodAngel

Proud INTJ
Patron
Edgy
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Messages
1,452
*1. Leonardo da Vinci painted for patrons
*2. Albrecht Durer said he was in it for the money
*3.Pablo Picasso became tremendously wealthy due to his art.

1. All of the artists did. Now the f question is how did it help them to paint better or increase their passion for painting. That was your original claim. Most of his sketches were for the sake of science and not money?
2. Who da fuck is he? Germans are know for many things, but not for painters. :D
3. 20 th century and his creations were insane. Again, how did the money made him a better artist?
If some artists are or were rich it doesn't mean they were dong it for the money...
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,044
tumblr_m4wlc46klp1r9yqve.gif


Can't comment myself though, the demo won't run on my jurassic rig. But it seems a big consensus, for the Codex that is.
10 quotes? Big consensus?

I can easily post 10 from people who either like it or warmed up to it. Exhibit A:

"I can't think of a better organized way to put this than a list of bullet points, so here goes. So far, I have completed the IG questline several times, Merchant twice, Assassin and Praetor once, and up to the last part of the Thief.

1. General Style of Game

The "choose your own adventure" (for lack of a better term) style is relatively unique and I have warmed to it. It allows a large variety of skills to be usefull, and I think for the most part options are well done. I think adding partial successes in the newer build was a great move, because the binary results encouraged more min/maxing and reloading. The non-combat build, obviously, is made very viable.

2 potential problems come to mind for me- first is general game balance. In the first build there were very defined bottlenecks, where characters will come to need a new skill that they haven't had use for before, with little other options. The problem with the intelligence check in the IG questline in the original build was one, and the last fight of the Thief quest was another. I believe the Merchant quest had me quit and respec a couple of times. Sometimes using skillpoints towards the problem at hand, rather than building a reasonably viable build, seems necessary. I do not have a good counterpoint or other idea though. Perhaps if some ability check conversation options were not removed after failure, you could see that the progression of your abilities allows more access to wealth and power. You may have this covered in the full game, I don't know.

The second problem is a sense of progression with a noncombat build. This could be alleviated in the full game, but I wonder how the sense of increasing power and ability that is present in combat will be present in the non-combat parts. For the demo, there is no obvious sense of the character's increasing abilities in say the merchant path. The character just seems to bring more of his skills up respectable levels, which would seem to even out the praetor, grifter, and merchant roles to a common end. I don't know if this would fit into your game, but in my perfect world increased noncombat skills would lead to more power of some sort- Wealth to buy equipment or allies, persuasion to pit increasing numbers of allies against foes, etc. or simply talking and manuevering people into vulnerable positions. One of the main lures of an RPG game is the increasing sense of power of a character.

The difficulty of combat I think was a wise choice, although I think there should be more situations that diplomatic characters could get a more visceral feeling of their power, as I tried to explain above. I still think combat is extremely difficult compared to the diplomatic paths, and I see no easy way to fix this again given the style of your game.

Random Bits.....

I like the "teleportation", I have gotten used to it.

Some story stealth paths I think should allow more options- ie I can sneak up to the roof of the palace, but I am given no choice to leave if I want.

I would have wanted more environmental interaction in what I would consider an ideal RPG, but again I see the merits of the path you chose.

More freedom to accomplish quests, even if it is simply freedom to go against overwhelming odds. Maybe you can't do this, but I would love to be able to complete the IG questline by simply murdering Dellar, walking through the castle and kill Antidades (sp?). This is probably easier said than done."
 
Joined
Mar 9, 2012
Messages
382
Project: Eternity
Good.

+ no filler combat
+ pointless walking reduced to minimum
+ nice setting and good story
+ very challenging encounters and good combat
+ best spear combat in history of video games
+ good writing and awesome stats/skills checks in dialogues
+ no useless skills
+ fun text adventures
+ fabulous C&C
+ multiple solutions to quests
+ great gfx

- release date : 2013

:love:


Entirely this
 

Jasede

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
24,793
Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
1) Well, simply put, if they hadn't painted well enough they wouldn't have gotten commissions or patrons and thus would have had to be poor. Because they didn't want to be poor they put their passion to good use, making money with it. Being able to live comfortably tends to give them more time to work on their art. In addition, the better they were - or the better they were at bringing into reality the wishes of their patrons - the more their future was secured. To me the connection seems on hand.
2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albrecht_Dürer
3) Because profit is a driving force for many, just as much as passion can be. They can both augment each other. The whole premise of the capitalist system is "Greed is good", a phrase that I know for a fact some children even learn in school, across the sea.

No, it doesn't mean they were doing it for the money; but it does mean that their hard work was rewarded. And the best way to be rewarded is to create great works- depending on how discerning the patron is.

This ties into what Cassidy said, which is a very valid thing to say. I would counter that some games were akin to someone trying to pursue the higher standards of a discerning patron. However, we all see how that ended: Origin, Microprose, bought by EA. Looking Glass, shut down. Which puts into question how valid what I said was in the first place.
 

Bruma Hobo

Lurker
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Messages
2,481
When I play RPGs I want to overcome the game obstacles using my ideas, or at least finding myself the predefined solutions. Menu- based solutions are shit, especially when there are no random elements at all.

Also I felt I had no control over my character thanks to (you guessed it) teleporting around in conversations. I would prefer Oblivion's fast travel, ffs.
 

FeelTheRads

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
13,716
Note that I'm not completely against teleportation. I'm against it being forced which makes no sense if the reason is only to save you from walking. I'd rather be "saved" when I want not when YOU want, thank you very much.
 

l3loodAngel

Proud INTJ
Patron
Edgy
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Messages
1,452
Which puts into question how valid what I said was in the first place.

This statement kinda soothed me, but why where you trying to defend that bs statement in the first place and why were trying to mock? (edit) drunk
 

Fryjar

Augur
Joined
Sep 6, 2005
Messages
176
tumblr_m4wlc46klp1r9yqve.gif


Can't comment myself though, the demo won't run on my jurassic rig. But it seems a big consensus, for the Codex that is.
10 quotes? Big consensus?

I can easily post 10 from people who either like it or warmed up to it. Exhibit A:

"I can't think of a better organized way to put this than a list of bullet points, so here goes. So far, I have completed the IG questline several times, Merchant twice, Assassin and Praetor once, and up to the last part of the Thief.

1. General Style of Game

The "choose your own adventure" (for lack of a better term) style is relatively unique and I have warmed to it. It allows a large variety of skills to be usefull, and I think for the most part options are well done. I think adding partial successes in the newer build was a great move, because the binary results encouraged more min/maxing and reloading. The non-combat build, obviously, is made very viable.

2 potential problems come to mind for me- first is general game balance. In the first build there were very defined bottlenecks, where characters will come to need a new skill that they haven't had use for before, with little other options. The problem with the intelligence check in the IG questline in the original build was one, and the last fight of the Thief quest was another. I believe the Merchant quest had me quit and respec a couple of times. Sometimes using skillpoints towards the problem at hand, rather than building a reasonably viable build, seems necessary. I do not have a good counterpoint or other idea though. Perhaps if some ability check conversation options were not removed after failure, you could see that the progression of your abilities allows more access to wealth and power. You may have this covered in the full game, I don't know.

The second problem is a sense of progression with a noncombat build. This could be alleviated in the full game, but I wonder how the sense of increasing power and ability that is present in combat will be present in the non-combat parts. For the demo, there is no obvious sense of the character's increasing abilities in say the merchant path. The character just seems to bring more of his skills up respectable levels, which would seem to even out the praetor, grifter, and merchant roles to a common end. I don't know if this would fit into your game, but in my perfect world increased noncombat skills would lead to more power of some sort- Wealth to buy equipment or allies, persuasion to pit increasing numbers of allies against foes, etc. or simply talking and manuevering people into vulnerable positions. One of the main lures of an RPG game is the increasing sense of power of a character.

The difficulty of combat I think was a wise choice, although I think there should be more situations that diplomatic characters could get a more visceral feeling of their power, as I tried to explain above. I still think combat is extremely difficult compared to the diplomatic paths, and I see no easy way to fix this again given the style of your game.

Random Bits.....

I like the "teleportation", I have gotten used to it.

Some story stealth paths I think should allow more options- ie I can sneak up to the roof of the palace, but I am given no choice to leave if I want.

I would have wanted more environmental interaction in what I would consider an ideal RPG, but again I see the merits of the path you chose.

More freedom to accomplish quests, even if it is simply freedom to go against overwhelming odds. Maybe you can't do this, but I would love to be able to complete the IG questline by simply murdering Dellar, walking through the castle and kill Antidades (sp?). This is probably easier said than done."

No offense VD, but it was my impression from all the feedback as well, that many people had issues with it. Also, when people say that they got used to it, doesn't mean that they like it or wouldn't have preferred a system without forced teleportation.
I'm actually, surprised that you are really questioning the overall negative stance towards forced teleporting. So far I was under the impression that your reasoning for not removing it completely was the amount of scripting it would require to switch to a completely optional teleportation system and not because you thought that the majority of players actually likes the system.

Regardless, there is really a simple way to solve this question without much ambiguity: Just open a poll about what people think about teleportation, either here or at ITS. Sure, you have a self selection bias etc., but it sure beats arguing on completely subjective grounds by extrapolating from single user statements.
 

dbx

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 14, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Wannabe Austria
*1. Leonardo da Vinci painted for patrons
*2. Albrecht Durer said he was in it for the money
*3.Pablo Picasso became tremendously wealthy due to his art.

1. All of the artists did. Now the f question is how did it help them to paint better or increase their passion for painting. That was your original claim. Most of his sketches were for the sake of science and not money?
2. Who da fuck is he? Germans are know for many things, but not for painters. :D
3. 20 th century and his creations were insane. Again, how did the money made him a better artist?
If some artists are or were rich it doesn't mean they were dong it for the money...

Can we ban him, please?
 

Jasede

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
24,793
Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
Because you come off just like I must to you: as a blind zealot. I am sure you and I both are smarter than that and can realize that just because we may have different opinions on the same thing it doesn't mean that those who don't think as we do are necessarily dumber or less enlightened (though they might be).

I mainly was embittered because you called Bloodlines- a quite beloved game, here -a popamole game. Even though you may not like it much, and even though you can see its flaws you must at least admit that some people like it for its plot or for its dialogue or for its mechanics and "rewards not for kills, but for accomplishments" system.

My statement may have been wrong, but I really just wanted to say that to me but not to others AoD seems a little "cold", sort of - but not quite as much - as Gal Civ 2 did. Maybe, so I reasoned, if VD was in it for money rather than just as a hobby- if his future depended on it -then maybe his next games would seem more "passionate".

Since these are subjective feelings it's hard to pin-point what makes a game "cold" and what doesn't. Gal Civ 2 is a "cold"-feeling game, even though I am sure the developers put a lot of love and passion into it. The same way AoD feels "cold" despite all the hard work- to me, and not those who disagree with me.

I can not define what cold and warm mean in the context of a game the same way we can't seem to ever agree on a definition for "RPG". It's just a feeling.

Cold games: Gal Civ 2, Paradox games (to me)
Warm games: Master of Orion 2, Master of Magic

Something about the interface, the color choices, the descriptions.
 

Raghar

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
24,093
Is it out? I wrote about some flaws, you ignored it. So why do you expect you can see in this thread?

This is grammatically more correct version. It says, I wrote about its flaws before, these flaws are still present in that game. Do you have problems with reading ability? Or are you German?

Have you seen Krater? It might be one of programs that is competing with that.
Krater? A game that "combines the combat mechanics of action-rpgs with the top-down view of the classic old-school RPG and RTS games"? In which ways does it compete with AoD?
GFX, art style, rules, game design is consistent and fresh, it's smooth and clear.
 

Raghar

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
24,093
Didn't Rembrant work as a border guard on a post in the middle of nowhere? He was paid by government, and he had a lot of free time for painting. The best of both worlds.

Can we ban him, please?
No.
 

Marsal

Arcane
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
1,304
Because you come off just like I must to you: as a blind zealot. I am sure you and I both are smarter than that and can realize that just because we may have different opinions on the same thing it doesn't mean that those who don't think as we do are necessarily dumber or less enlightened (though they might be).

I mainly was embittered because you called Bloodlines- a quite beloved game, here -a popamole game. Even though you may not like it much, and even though you can see its flaws you must at least admit that some people like it for its plot or for its dialogue or for its mechanics and "rewards not for kills, but for accomplishments" system.
He's trolling you, numbnuts.

Since these are subjective feelings it's hard to pin-point what makes a game "cold" and what doesn't. Gal Civ 2 is a "cold"-feeling game, even though I am sure the developers put a lot of love and passion into it. The same way AoD feels "cold" despite all the hard work- to me, and not those who disagree with me.

I can not define what cold and warm mean in the context of a game the same way we can't seem to ever agree on a definition for "RPG". It's just a feeling.

Cold games: Gal Civ 2, Paradox games (to me)
Warm games: Master of Orion 2, Master of Magic

Something about the interface, the color choices, the descriptions.

I agree with this. I often "feel" this intangible element in games, a certain "je ne sais quoi". I doubt it can really be objectively explained and/or quantified. "Warm" and "cold" dichotomy may be confusing, though. For me it's more a game with "soul" vs game without one (not necessarily influenced by color palette).

Have you seen Krater? It might be one of programs that is competing with that.
Krater? A game that "combines the combat mechanics of action-rpgs with the top-down view of the classic old-school RPG and RTS games"? In which ways does it compete with AoD?
GFX, art style, rules, game design is consistent and fresh, it's smooth and clear.
If by "consistent and fresh" you mean shit and by "smooth and clear" you meant complete and utter garbage, then yes.
 

l3loodAngel

Proud INTJ
Patron
Edgy
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Messages
1,452
1. Because you come off just like I must to you: as a blind zealot. I am sure you and I both are smarter than that and can realize that just because we may have different opinions on the same thing it doesn't mean that those who don't think as we do are necessarily dumber or less enlightened (though they might be).

2. I mainly was embittered because you called Bloodlines- a quite beloved game, here -a popamole game. Even though you may not like it much, and even though you can see its flaws you must at least admit that some people like it for its plot or for its dialogue or for its mechanics and "rewards not for kills, but for accomplishments" system.

3. My statement may have been wrong, but I really just wanted to say that to me but not to others AoD seems a little "cold", sort of - but not quite as much - as Gal Civ 2 did. Maybe, so I reasoned, if VD was in it for money rather than just as a hobby- if his future depended on it -then maybe his next games would seem more "passionate".

Since these are subjective feelings it's hard to pin-point what makes a game "cold" and what doesn't. Gal Civ 2 is a "cold"-feeling game, even though I am sure the developers put a lot of love and passion into it. The same way AoD feels "cold" despite all the hard work- to me, and not those who disagree with me.

I can not define what cold and warm mean in the context of a game the same way we can't seem to ever agree on a 4.definition for "RPG". It's just a feeling.

Cold games: Gal Civ 2, Paradox games (to me)
Warm games: Master of Orion 2, Master of Magic

Something about the interface, the color choices, the descriptions.

1. I am not a zealot. I just don't want people criticizing AoD, because they don't understand it. I played AoD demo for +100 hours and had so much more fun than all of the modern "RPGs" put together. If you don't understand some part of it just ask VD for tutorial or a text explanation, don't be proud...
2. To me an RPG is when your stats and your mental decisions determine the outcome, not the reflexes. Either your stats play or your reflexes. This one criteria makes RPGs different from all( most if someone wants to have a fucking argument) the game genres. Tbh. I have never played it for that reason. But I have never criticized it for it's plot or accomplishment system.
3. Saying that Aod is cold or it's warm is opinion and you are entitled to it. You would help VD if you would make reasonable suggestions on how to make it warmer. But when people start shouting that it sucks based on 15 min of playing or not understanding the game system, I kinda loose it.
4. Everyone has it's own definition of RPG, but that's not the problem. Showing puke opinions as facts is...
 

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