One way of addressing it is to flatten to advancement curve, i.e. a lvl 20 character should not have an order of magnitude more HPs than a lvl 1 character.
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What game are you wasting time on?
- Thread starter Trash
- Start date
One way of addressing it is to flatten to advancement curve, i.e. a lvl 20 character should not have an order of magnitude more HPs than a lvl 1 character.
NecroLord
Dumbfuck!
Still playing Doom 2.
It's almost relaxing.
Pure bliss.
It's almost relaxing.
Pure bliss.
Corbin Dallas Multipass
Learned
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- Aug 27, 2021
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- 698
It's one of many tools available. If a level 1 character is a threat to a level 20 character, then advancing from level 1 to level 2 isn't going to feel like much growth. Sure, it fixes one problem, but adds a much bigger one.
Fighting shit that's super duper easy is boring. Leveling up and just getting 5% increased chance to hit is boring. Every place in the world having the same monsters, or at least, the same threat level is boring.
In a power fantasy RPG like TES, I don't think flattening the advancement curve really works without stripping out that feeling of your character becoming godly. But of course, if all the bandits and draugrs and what not also become godly at the same rate, that's essentially the same thing.
YldrE
Learned
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Adventure/narrative round-up.
The Suicide of Rachel Foster (2020) on PC
I was expecting something akin to The Vanishing of Ethan Carter, i.e. a sort of exploration/investigation adventure; in the end it's more of a cross between Firewatch and Gone Home.
Firewatch in that you go through the motions of a narrative game happening mostly via phone conversations.
Gone Home in that you're stuck in a place where some undisclosed previous event occurred and you're exploring and gathering clues to unravel what happened.
In Gone Home, people try to defend the narrative by saying the game was supposed to be chill and mundane, which is of course bullshit. The setup is deliberately trying to make you believe there's a murder/disappearance mystery going on, or light horror elements, until it becomes apparent that nothing happened beyond two lovers eloping after a family dispute. Life goes on as normal and you just coincidentally happen to come in when no one's home. The fact that nothing of consequence happened is the twist, not the premise.
In The Suicide of Rachel Foster, unlike Gone Home you won't feel like you have been tricked into taking teenage emo stuff seriously: while the game does send you false signals and red herrings, the broad strokes of the original story are true and you will uncover actual tragedies.
"What if Gone Home wasn't shit"/10.
------------
Cibele (2015) on PC
I'm glad I didn't pay for it, it's a perfect example of a "nothing" narrative indie game: all narrative, no choice, no freedom, no puzzle, over in 45 minutes.
If you've ever been a teenager flirting with someone in an online game, chatting casually while grinding and wondering whether you should meet IRL, this should bring back memories. Embarrassing memories, mind you, but you're always torn between cringing at that teenage shit vs fondly remembering the good old days where you had a full head of hair, functional knees, and youthful optimism.
If you want a deeper take (but still harmless and light-hearted) on that kind of no-stakes teenager experience, consider the Emily is Away trilogy. 1 and 2 are pure IRC dialogues, 3 features a Facebook knock-off.
------------
Observation (2019) on PC
Now for the complete opposite of the above.
Some trailers spoil the chapter 1 twist. It's been a while since I went "shit, you got me there" at a sudden revelation so I made sure the one I linked above doesn't ruin the surprise.
Of course, since I went blind expecting a walking simulator in space, the first twist was that you're not a spationaut but the station's assistant AI. The gameplay itself is all clues-gathering with some puzzles, it's not always very clear what your next move should be, and sometimes it really feels like you should be able to communicate more with the crew regarding your findings. In general it really feels like there's more that could have been done, gameplay-wise or more importantly story-wise, regarding the fact that you play as a computer: just about everything in the lore and story would have allowed for a perfect build-up towards "shit, are you actually self-conscious?"
The NPCs look alright, but the rest of the visuals are incredible, including provoking that sense of dread at the immense nothingness during EVA sorties. The game is pretty routine otherwise and it's that powerful atmosphere that carries the experience.
The Suicide of Rachel Foster (2020) on PC
I was expecting something akin to The Vanishing of Ethan Carter, i.e. a sort of exploration/investigation adventure; in the end it's more of a cross between Firewatch and Gone Home.
Firewatch in that you go through the motions of a narrative game happening mostly via phone conversations.
Gone Home in that you're stuck in a place where some undisclosed previous event occurred and you're exploring and gathering clues to unravel what happened.
In Gone Home, people try to defend the narrative by saying the game was supposed to be chill and mundane, which is of course bullshit. The setup is deliberately trying to make you believe there's a murder/disappearance mystery going on, or light horror elements, until it becomes apparent that nothing happened beyond two lovers eloping after a family dispute. Life goes on as normal and you just coincidentally happen to come in when no one's home. The fact that nothing of consequence happened is the twist, not the premise.
In The Suicide of Rachel Foster, unlike Gone Home you won't feel like you have been tricked into taking teenage emo stuff seriously: while the game does send you false signals and red herrings, the broad strokes of the original story are true and you will uncover actual tragedies.
"What if Gone Home wasn't shit"/10.
------------
Cibele (2015) on PC
I'm glad I didn't pay for it, it's a perfect example of a "nothing" narrative indie game: all narrative, no choice, no freedom, no puzzle, over in 45 minutes.
If you've ever been a teenager flirting with someone in an online game, chatting casually while grinding and wondering whether you should meet IRL, this should bring back memories. Embarrassing memories, mind you, but you're always torn between cringing at that teenage shit vs fondly remembering the good old days where you had a full head of hair, functional knees, and youthful optimism.
If you want a deeper take (but still harmless and light-hearted) on that kind of no-stakes teenager experience, consider the Emily is Away trilogy. 1 and 2 are pure IRC dialogues, 3 features a Facebook knock-off.
------------
Observation (2019) on PC
Now for the complete opposite of the above.
Some trailers spoil the chapter 1 twist. It's been a while since I went "shit, you got me there" at a sudden revelation so I made sure the one I linked above doesn't ruin the surprise.
Of course, since I went blind expecting a walking simulator in space, the first twist was that you're not a spationaut but the station's assistant AI. The gameplay itself is all clues-gathering with some puzzles, it's not always very clear what your next move should be, and sometimes it really feels like you should be able to communicate more with the crew regarding your findings. In general it really feels like there's more that could have been done, gameplay-wise or more importantly story-wise, regarding the fact that you play as a computer: just about everything in the lore and story would have allowed for a perfect build-up towards "shit, are you actually self-conscious?"
The NPCs look alright, but the rest of the visuals are incredible, including provoking that sense of dread at the immense nothingness during EVA sorties. The game is pretty routine otherwise and it's that powerful atmosphere that carries the experience.
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Guilty as charged.
Approx 800 hrs on Grim Dawn. Love-hate relationship. Love because creators pour a lot of dedication and love into the world's features continually. The lore matters, the atmosphere is thick as the fog of Baskerville, and the build freedom is strong with this one. Hate, because it's drifted away from Titan Quest in ways most people want and I find somewhat boring.
E.g. using a three-to-four button-mash play-style, while kiling mobs in large groups with the most damage possible.
TQ allowed for playing thoughtfully, picking enemies one by one or in small groups, using various techniques, slowing, hard-hitting, close-gappers, weapon switching, creating a ballet of death more akin to RPGs with action combat than to Diablo-like aRPGs.
Approx 800 hrs on Grim Dawn. Love-hate relationship. Love because creators pour a lot of dedication and love into the world's features continually. The lore matters, the atmosphere is thick as the fog of Baskerville, and the build freedom is strong with this one. Hate, because it's drifted away from Titan Quest in ways most people want and I find somewhat boring.
E.g. using a three-to-four button-mash play-style, while kiling mobs in large groups with the most damage possible.
TQ allowed for playing thoughtfully, picking enemies one by one or in small groups, using various techniques, slowing, hard-hitting, close-gappers, weapon switching, creating a ballet of death more akin to RPGs with action combat than to Diablo-like aRPGs.
Beans00
Augur
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2008
- Messages
- 972
Not to beat a dead horse since octavius apparently has me beat with M&M1(never played it). Daggerfall (1996) had fairly blatant level scaling. I don't remember if morrowind did, dont think I played it long enough to find out.
BG2(2000) also had level scaling but not in a way that was so annoying to me, IIRC only specific encounters would change depending on your level. I remember the biggest example was a vampire(I think?) turning into a lich in spellhold if you were above level 10 or 11? I could be completely wrong on the values but I specifically remember there was a level scaled lich encounter in spellhold dungeons.
It had scaling, but somehow it did not feel as bad as Oblivion level scaling.
Average Manatee
Arcane
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- Jan 7, 2012
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- 14,236
Yeah, level scaling has been in a lot of games. But they tend to make it more fun. Like M&M1 where past a certain level (like 4 or 6?) you suddenly run into hundreds of weak enemies at a time designed for you to fireball them away. BG, Morrowind, and a bunch of others took the approach of actually upgrading the types of enemies you'd find, so the RNG spawner would be more weighted towards liches and vampires and away from common skeletons and zombies if the game wanted to spawn an undead enemy.
Oblivion's sin was that they just took the same enemy and gave it endlessly more HP and damage. Which depending on how well you abused the mindfuck leveling system could mean that common things like bears outscaled the player and became immortal gods of destruction. Same went for Bandits in full glass armor.
Oblivion's sin was that they just took the same enemy and gave it endlessly more HP and damage. Which depending on how well you abused the mindfuck leveling system could mean that common things like bears outscaled the player and became immortal gods of destruction. Same went for Bandits in full glass armor.
I tried playing Daggerfall in early 2000s (certainly before Morrowing release) and gave up quickly due to corrupted saves. If the situation any better now? Is Unity version playable?
rusty_shackleford
Arcane
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- Jan 14, 2018
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- 50,754
Unity version has been stable for a long time now, the reason it's not a 1.0 release yet is because they're just working on polishing it.
I've been playing Phantasmagoria since yesterday. I don't get why this game was so ~*controversial*~ when so far it's just a fanfic of The Shining (just started chapter 4).
Anyway, there are a few things about this game that annoy me, which I like to call the Scratches syndrome. In Scratches, there was a step where you needed to pick up one particular newspaper in a house with newspaper stacks all over the fucking place to then use it for something. Here in fact there is also a newspaper situation. You come across a locked door, the key is in the lock but on the other side. You have a key that doesn't fit but goes into the lock and a newspaper.
You activate your neurons and think hmm maybe if I put the newspaper under das door and then the key in... but nop. You can't put the newspaper under the door and the key doesn't push the other out. Well ok. Later on you get a bent nail (the only bent nail in the entire trashed house) by prying it out with a hammer (the only such tool in the entire house) - das rite, you are supposed to insert the nail inside the lock. But you can't put the newspaper under the door first. In fact, you can do that only after pushing the key out, and the protag just unfolds the paper and goes 'gee i wish i thought of that before :^)'
Oh and to get the hammer you have to go down a dark cellar. You have two matches in your inventory. You can't use them on the trap door or the passage or on whatever and the protag won't use them herself. You also can't pick up any of the hundreds of yuge candles all over the house. So what is the solution?
... you have to use the matches on the protag's head when standing in front of the trap door
apart from that i am enjoying it and adrienne is my waifu
though frankly i wish those fucking FMV games wasted the player's time less because having to watch all those long-ass motion sequences for every fucking thing can sometimes get tiring, especially if fast-forwarding can in some situations completely cancel an action rather than fast-forward it if it's a 2-step one (like opening a book and looking inside for details on the pages)
Anyway, there are a few things about this game that annoy me, which I like to call the Scratches syndrome. In Scratches, there was a step where you needed to pick up one particular newspaper in a house with newspaper stacks all over the fucking place to then use it for something. Here in fact there is also a newspaper situation. You come across a locked door, the key is in the lock but on the other side. You have a key that doesn't fit but goes into the lock and a newspaper.
You activate your neurons and think hmm maybe if I put the newspaper under das door and then the key in... but nop. You can't put the newspaper under the door and the key doesn't push the other out. Well ok. Later on you get a bent nail (the only bent nail in the entire trashed house) by prying it out with a hammer (the only such tool in the entire house) - das rite, you are supposed to insert the nail inside the lock. But you can't put the newspaper under the door first. In fact, you can do that only after pushing the key out, and the protag just unfolds the paper and goes 'gee i wish i thought of that before :^)'
Oh and to get the hammer you have to go down a dark cellar. You have two matches in your inventory. You can't use them on the trap door or the passage or on whatever and the protag won't use them herself. You also can't pick up any of the hundreds of yuge candles all over the house. So what is the solution?
... you have to use the matches on the protag's head when standing in front of the trap door
apart from that i am enjoying it and adrienne is my waifu
though frankly i wish those fucking FMV games wasted the player's time less because having to watch all those long-ass motion sequences for every fucking thing can sometimes get tiring, especially if fast-forwarding can in some situations completely cancel an action rather than fast-forward it if it's a 2-step one (like opening a book and looking inside for details on the pages)
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really, that's it?
i'd seen that just a moment ago and thought it was silly if anything
i'd seen that just a moment ago and thought it was silly if anything
I prefer this Halloween mood simulator:
Alex
Arcane
I've been playing Phantasmagoria since yesterday. I don't get why this game was so ~*controversial*~ when so far it's just a fanfic of The Shining (just started chapter 4).
Anyway, there are a few things about this game that annoy me, which I like to call the Scratches syndrome. In Scratches, there was a step where you needed to pick up one particular newspaper in a house with newspaper stacks all over the fucking place to then use it for something. Here in fact there is also a newspaper situation. You come across a locked door, the key is in the lock but on the other side. You have a key that doesn't fit but goes into the lock and a newspaper.
You activate your neurons and think hmm maybe if I put the newspaper under das door and then the key in... but nop. You can't put the newspaper under the door and the key doesn't push the other out. Well ok. Later on you get a bent nail (the only bent nail in the entire trashed house) by prying it out with a hammer (the only such tool in the entire house) - das rite, you are supposed to insert the nail inside the lock. But you can't put the newspaper under the door first. In fact, you can do that only after pushing the key out, and the protag just unfolds the paper and goes 'gee i wish i thought of that before :^)'
Oh and to get the hammer you have to go down a dark cellar. You have two matches in your inventory. You can't use them on the trap door or the passage or on whatever and the protag won't use them herself. You also can't pick up any of the hundreds of yuge candles all over the house. So what is the solution?
... you have to use the matches on the protag's head when standing in front of the trap door
apart from that i am enjoying it and adrienne is my waifu
though frankly i wish those fucking FMV games wasted the player's time less because having to watch all those long-ass motion sequences for every fucking thing can sometimes get tiring, especially if fast-forwarding can in some situations completely cancel an action rather than fast-forward it if it's a 2-step one (like opening a book and looking inside for details on the pages)
TSDR (Too spoiley, didn't read).
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This scene at 7:54 fucked me up really bad as a middle schooler. I'd guess it was because of shit like this
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Daggerfall was perfectly playable at that time; you just needed to install the patches, including the fan-made patch, and avoid a certain bug that triggered a permanent graphical glitch. Also, keep backup saves just in case.
These aren't quite compatible. Playable, sure.
Morpheus Kitami
Liturgist
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- May 14, 2020
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- 2,521
Not saying its necessarily good, but there's a definite sense with those that they packed it to the brim with that stuff because they thought it was cool. "Hey, look at how much animation we can have!" I believe a selling point with that game in particular was how long they spent filming everything.
Remember, while rape is controversial now, back then it just wasn't mentioned in the English-speaking world in games. This was also in living memory of when the DOS port of J.B. Harold - Murder Club came out, and Dragon magazine, in their infinite wisdom, shit their pants over how one character had an unsolved rape in her backstory and was a bit salty about it. It wouldn't matter if they played kazoo music and balloons popped out, the very depiction of the act itself was that shocking.
All this time I thought Phantasmagoria was strangely casual, and I was waiting with great trepidation for patented Sierra adventure game bullshit to finally rear its ugly head and whack me in the skull with an ice pick. It did.
If you forget to do a certain thing in the second last chapter (and you don't end that chapter voluntarily), you set yourself up for a much harder final chapter. Even better, reaching the final chapter's endgame sequence WIPES your save game (and there is ONLY ONE SAVE SLOT) so you can't prepare yourself better for it.
After this you are left having to constantly redo a long-ass FMV sequence with multiple choices (most of which lead to bad ends in this situation) until you get it right, while the rewind function for the redo is bugged to hell and back, and randomly takes away items from you or puts you in places you haven't even been to.
What the fuck.
Good that I could watch the ending on youtube. Because it was also disappointing enough that if I had to actually go through those FMV hoops to reach it, I'd probably get angry.
If you forget to do a certain thing in the second last chapter (and you don't end that chapter voluntarily), you set yourself up for a much harder final chapter. Even better, reaching the final chapter's endgame sequence WIPES your save game (and there is ONLY ONE SAVE SLOT) so you can't prepare yourself better for it.
After this you are left having to constantly redo a long-ass FMV sequence with multiple choices (most of which lead to bad ends in this situation) until you get it right, while the rewind function for the redo is bugged to hell and back, and randomly takes away items from you or puts you in places you haven't even been to.
What the fuck.
Good that I could watch the ending on youtube. Because it was also disappointing enough that if I had to actually go through those FMV hoops to reach it, I'd probably get angry.
SerratedBiz
Arcane
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2009
- Messages
- 4,143
It's perfectly fine to use perfectly in that way, as it does not necessarily mean perfect.
Look it up on a dictionary if you want.
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2020
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- 14,933
Good grief. Something about classic gore that special effects have never been able to replicate.
Actually, it was controversial because of the "rape" scene at the start of chapter 4.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_uLlij9dzc
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