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What games/series are overrated on the Codex?

Forest Dweller

Smoking Dicks
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
12,255
Come on, I know you all have at least one game that you think is overated here. Don't be shy. The more participants we get the better. It doesn't need to be an rpg or in the holy trinity or anything like that. Just a game or a series of games that get praise here the majority of times that they're mentioned. This is a chance to get rid of some of those cumbersome Kodex Kool Kreds, don't pass it up!

I'll start with my list:

1. Gothic series. Yeah I think they're way overrated. Perhaps what irks me most is that they are usually praised as rpgs. I think they are more action/adventure than rpg. Sure, they start out with the illusion of having lots of choices and faction dynamics, but that turns out to be false and the game gets railroaded. And then the games, without exeption, turn to shit at the end. Also your class is determined by what faction you join, so there's little choice in character development. And the world appears to be open but due to monster placement it really isn't until you level up enough. So yeah. Although I will admit that Gothic 2 was better regards to rpg elements. Perhaps if users reserved their praise for Gothic 2, and only Gothic 2, I would be more lenient here. But that's usually not the case.

Oh, and the combat is complete shit. Seriously what the fuck. I can't believe so many people praise the combat. Just because it's hard doesn't mean it's good combat. It just means it's hard.

2. Thief. I've already been through this several times, so I'd rather not repeat myself here. Suffice it to say that I think it is very inferior to Thief 2. Short answer: zombies.

3. S.T.A.L.K.E.R. This game seems to usually be praised when it's mentioned here, and I have to scratch my head. I'm with skyway on this one. Sure, there's an open world, but it still unfolds in a linear fashion, and there's really no incentive to go exploring. And there's factions, but you can only do the most minimal character interactions, so it seems pointless. The shooting mechanics aren't engaging enough to carry the lengthy experience. Sure, the game has loads of atmosphere, but atmosphere alone does not make a game. And I hated those underground sections.

4. Fallout. Now give me a minute. I'm not exactly referring to the game on its own here. Rather I think it's overrated when compared to Fallout 2. In that sense I think it's inferior. I suppose another way of saying this is that I think Fallout 2 is underrated. In my opinion Fallout 2 greatly expanded on the original and gave a much deeper and richer experience. Sure, it added lulz too, but the whole setting was built on lulz, so whatever.

5. Demon's Souls. Any game that punishes what amounts to a mixture of bad luck and trial and error by forcing you to go through loads of bullshit over and over again can go fuck itself.

6. Baldur's Gate series. Yeah. Fuck 'em.
 

Serious_Business

Best Poster on the Codex
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
3,918
Location
Frown Town
Ingus.jpg


This is a chance to get rid of some of those cumbersome Kodex Kool Kreds, don't pass it up!

Someone missed the memo that being critical regarding supposed Codex standards was the cool Codex thing to do
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Messages
33,438
Location
KA.DINGIR.RA.KI
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I do agree that Thief 2 is much better than Thief 1, at least for me personally, because of there not being any zombie levels. But then again I'm a pussy who doesn't like scary stuff. But calling it overrated is fucking stupid. It's the first game of the series and the first ever first person stealther if I'm not mistaken, and some of the missions are just awesomely designed.

Also the Gothic combat is fun and awesome. And what the fuck is "the world seems open but isn't because of enemy placement" supposed to mean, do you prefer level scaling a la Oblivion or what? Difficulty progession isn't that harsh, especially towards the end, it's just very challenging in the beginning and you have to learn to evade fights.

Stupid criticism points in both cases.

Oh also Fallout 1 has the better atmosphere and setting compared to FO2, while FO2 has more content. I'd put both on the same place if I had to rank them.

And the BG series isn't overrated. Some people like BG2. Some like it a lot. BG1 isn't very well-liked, and it's generally not considered to be a great game, just good/solid. Just because some people like it and you don't doesn't mean it's overrated. And "they suck" isn't valid criticism, anyway.
 

Sceptic

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
10,874
Divinity: Original Sin
It seems from your comments (specifically Fallout, Gothic and STALKER) as well as from lots of your previous posts that the one determining factor for whether you enjoy a game is C&C and nonlinearity, and so you think some of these are overrated because they have no C&C. Since I and many others consider C&C to be a nice but ultimately nonessential component of our CRPG's (never mind of games in general) I just can't understand why games that never pretended to have C&C (such as Gothic) have to be put down for its absence, though I can see why they're games you wouldn't enjoy (as much).

Anyway, my own personal list:

1. Half-Life series, for reasons I've gone through many times before. Sure it's a fun linear shooter, but it's nowhere near the best and nowhere near deserving all the praise it gets here and elsewhere.

2. Fallout 2. I'm honestly puzzled why this one's loved so much. It gets off to a terrible start, and takes a while before it gets better. Even then it never achieves the level of atmosphere, balance, and feeling that you're actually in a wasteland that its predecessor did. It seems to be mostly loved for its C&C and quest structure, which while good I guess isn't really that much superior to 1's (except by sheer quantity) and definitely inferior to Arcanum's, and is frequently ruined by absolutely idiotic writing/context.

3. Mass Effect 2. Yeah I know, half the Codex hates it with a burning passion, but some people seem to like it "as a shooter even if it's not an RPG" and consider it superior to 1. Well... writing wise it's probably the best Bioware has ever done (outside the MQ of course, because in the MQ it's possibly their worst, which says a lot). But gameplay wise it's a horrible, horrible shooter with the shitty cover system, shitty health regen, extremely repetitive corridors full of the same trash mobs and the same boxes to hide behind.

That's all I can think of for now.
 

Castanova

Prophet
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
2,949
Location
The White Visitation
5. Demon's Souls. Any game that punishes what amounts to a mixture of bad luck and trial and error by forcing you to go through loads of bullshit over and over again can go fuck itself.

Every time someone makes this argument I immediately know they're just bad at the game. I almost never died while playing through Demon's Souls except against certain bosses and to those laser things in 4-2. I died due to bad luck somewhere around 0 - 2 times. New Game+ is a different story, though, obviously.
 

hoverdog

dog that is hovering, Wastelands Interactive
Developer
Joined
Jul 8, 2010
Messages
5,589
Location
Jordan, Minnesota
Project: Eternity
Dicksmoker said:
1. Gothic series. Yeah I think they're way overrated. Perhaps what irks me most is that they are usually praised as rpgs. I think they are more action/adventure than rpg. Sure, they start out with the illusion of having lots of choices and faction dynamics, but that turns out to be false and the game gets railroaded. And then the games, without exeption, turn to shit at the end. Also your class is determined by what faction you join, so there's little choice in character development. And the world appears to be open but due to monster placement it really isn't until you level up enough. So yeah. Although I will admit that Gothic 2 was better regards to rpg elements. Perhaps if users reserved their praise for Gothic 2, and only Gothic 2, I would be more lenient here. But that's usually not the case.

Oh, and the combat is complete shit. Seriously what the fuck. I can't believe so many people praise the combat. Just because it's hard doesn't mean it's good combat. It just means it's hard.
a fellow gothic hater :thumbsup:
risen too.
 

Sergiu64

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Jun 8, 2010
Messages
2,639
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Sic semper tyrannis.
PS:T, Mask of the Betrayer and Fallout series prolly. Not that they're bad, I just don't rate them as high as the rest of the Codex.

Other then that I dunno; Codex hates most games really, so its hard to say anything is overrated by the Codex.
 

Sergiu64

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Jun 8, 2010
Messages
2,639
Location
Sic semper tyrannis.
Gosling said:
Exmit said:
writing wise it's probably the best Bioware has ever done

:retarded:

What Bio game has better writing pray tell?

ME series's writing is too different to compare to the rest of their games. Here they actually created a whole new world on their own. So while the game's storyline is so-so, the fact that they managed to create a world and setting that eclipses that of Star Wars gives them big points imo. They tried to do the same with DA I guess, but ME's world is a lot more interesting. Rest of their games mostly burrowed from existing settings like Forgotten Realms, etc.
 

Fowyr

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Mar 29, 2009
Messages
7,671
Sceptic said:
2. Fallout 2. I'm honestly puzzled why this one's loved so much. It gets off to a terrible start, and takes a while before it gets better. Even then it never achieves the level of atmosphere, balance, and feeling that you're actually in a wasteland that its predecessor did. It seems to be mostly loved for its C&C and quest structure, which while good I guess isn't really that much superior to 1's (except by sheer quantity) and definitely inferior to Arcanum's, and is frequently ruined by absolutely idiotic writing/context.
I really love random encounters in F2. I never forget two encounters, one before Den, second on the way from Den to Redding, where I witnessed battle between merchants and raiders. First encounter bringed me Desert Eagle, second - FN FAL and M60. What was epic.
Random encounters in the F1 more bland and encounters in the FOT are rage inducing shit.
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2010
Messages
3,524
Arcanum, Civ 4, GTA4, Diablo, Half Life2, WoW, the Witcher, Assassins Creed, Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Supreme Commander, Bioshock, BG2

Strong points here and there, but "overrated" most certainly describes them all.
 

Fowyr

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Mar 29, 2009
Messages
7,671
Most part of your list considered shit by the Codex. At least I hope it's considered.
 

Erebus

Arcane
Joined
Jul 12, 2008
Messages
4,804
I agree with OP about Thief 1 : the zombies found in about half of the missions are a very poor choice of opponents for such a game. I much prefer Thief 2.

I think Arcanum is extremely overrated. It had plenty of good concepts, but the realisation fell short.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
14,079
Location
Platypus Planet
Dicksmoker said:
5. Demon's Souls. Any game that punishes what amounts to a mixture of bad luck and trial and error by forcing you to go through loads of bullshit over and over again can go fuck itself.

Yeah, I agree. That's why Demon's Souls is so brilliant. :smug:
 

Forest Dweller

Smoking Dicks
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
12,255
JarlFrank said:
I do agree that Thief 2 is much better than Thief 1, at least for me personally, because of there not being any zombie levels. But then again I'm a pussy who doesn't like scary stuff. But calling it overrated is fucking stupid. It's the first game of the series and the first ever first person stealther if I'm not mistaken, and some of the missions are just awesomely designed.
But most people who like it say it is better than Thief 2. So my point still stands.

Also the Gothic combat is fun and awesome. And what the fuck is "the world seems open but isn't because of enemy placement" supposed to mean, do you prefer level scaling a la Oblivion or what?
Maybe something in between then. It's hard to call it an open-world game when there are only a few very specific places you can visit at the start. It unfolds more like an adventure game. That's fine for an adventure game but don't go calling it an rpg.

Sceptic said:
It seems from your comments (specifically Fallout, Gothic and STALKER) as well as from lots of your previous posts that the one determining factor for whether you enjoy a game is C&C and nonlinearity, and so you think some of these are overrated because they have no C&C. Since I and many others consider C&C to be a nice but ultimately nonessential component of our CRPG's (never mind of games in general) I just can't understand why games that never pretended to have C&C (such as Gothic) have to be put down for its absence, though I can see why they're games you wouldn't enjoy (as much).
Gothic definitely did pretend to have C&C. It devoted an entire (lengthy) chapter to opposing quests, multiple solutions, and faction dynamics, and then abruptly did a 180 degree turn to a linear romp. That's about as close to pretending as I've ever seen.

STALKER did too. It gave the illusion that there would be more to the game than simply shooting, but as it turned out there really wasn't. And they certainly hyped that element.

It seems to be mostly loved for its C&C and quest structure, which while good I guess isn't really that much superior to 1's (except by sheer quantity)
Not only were there more quests, but there were quite a few that had more options built into them, there were more connections between settlements, and quests weren't isolated to one settlement but could instead affect quests in other settlements. That's all an increase in quality as well as quantity.
 

Zomg

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
6,984
Baldur's Gate series; they are bad Gold Box games. And Gold Box games are usually pretty shitty anyways.
 

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