What games/series are overrated on the Codex?

[Forest Dweller]

5. Demon's Souls. Any game that punishes what amounts to a mixture of bad luck and trial and error by forcing you to go through loads of bullshit over and over again can go fuck itself.

What's that sound? Oops, it seems I forgot to turn off my pansy detector before coming in.

You go ahead and do that. Meanwhile, I'll go back to enjoying my Master Ninja playthrough of Ninja Gaiden.

. Gothic series. Yeah I think they're way overrated. Perhaps what irks me most is that they are usually praised as rpgs. I think they are more action/adventure than rpg. Sure, they start out with the illusion of having lots of choices and faction dynamics, but that turns out to be false and the game gets railroaded. And then the games, without exeption, turn to shit at the end. Also your class is determined by what faction you join, so there's little choice in character development. And the world appears to be open but due to monster placement it really isn't until you level up enough. So yeah. Although I will admit that Gothic 2 was better regards to rpg elements. Perhaps if users reserved their praise for Gothic 2, and only Gothic 2, I would be more lenient here. But that's usually not the case.

The game actually gives you more involving choices than average RPGs despite both ending up at a predetermined end game and you are complaining? How is it any false when it comes to Gothic series?

What choices? After Chapter 1 the game gets completely railroaded. And because of that any choice you made previously doesn't matter. Bioware games at least give minor story alterations based on the decisions you make. Gothic doesn't even have that.

And if you piss someone off, all you have to do is beat them up and everything is good again.

And what's so inherently wrong or unRPG-like with class being determined by your faction? It's a fitting reality of the setting and an interesting and an actual choice as opposed to picking whatever skills you like in a menu and playing in a game world that is utterly and completely oblivious to that choice. It's most ironic then that you think the choices in Gothic series are false and un-RPG-like.

It may make sense based on trainers, but if we're going for realism here than we should do away with skill points altogether and implement the ESF level-with-use system. That's the most realistic method, but in this case doing away with some realism gives player decisions more weight. The experience and skill point system is an abstraction that allows players to have variety in character builds and make meaningful decisions in developing their character. I don't value it as highly as C&C, but it's definitely an important part of an RPG. Having entire classes cut off because of what faction you join drastically reduces this.

A better way is to have some special, unique skills only available based on certain choices. That's a good mixture of both worlds. A good example are the Master's quests in Arcanum.

Also, what's that about open world and difficulty of fights? Are your favourite RPGs inconsequential hiking simulators ala Oblivion and the like, by any chance? I'm afraid you have not a single valid point there and beyond.

All I'm saying is that if the locations unfold in a more or less linear fashion it's misleading to call the game open-world. Which most people do when talking about the Gothic series. The exception is Gothic 3, but that game has its own problems.

What JarlFrank said. You probably want to just smash the buttons mindlessly while bunny-hopping around to avoid getting hit.

Except that that is what Gothic combat basically is. Keep swinging steadily and continuously hitting the enemy so that they keep getting stunned. So many fights are determined by who hits first. If you're fighting multiple enemies keep jumping backward until you're only facing one at a time.

And come to think, that would actually fit the profile, what with your hard-on for dual-wielding.

Lol. You can't stop fixating on that, can you?

3. S.T.A.L.K.E.R...And I hated those underground sections.

wat

I get and partially agree with the rest of that rant but to hate the underground sections... after complaining about the vast open but empty world...

I was complaining about a poorly implemented open world. And who said if I didn't like an open world I had to like the underground sections?

4. Fallout. Sure, it (Fallout 2) added lulz too, but the whole setting was built on lulz, so whatever.

wat

Are you... Todd?

The whole 50s vibe did a good job of ruining lots of realism for a game that was supposed to be very gritty. So the lulz is very much imbedded into the setting. There's nothing sacred about retro-sci-fi; I don't get why so many people seem to like it so much. IMO it's long overdue for being put to rest.

 

[Excommunicator]

it includes games that are way overrated in broader circles than just the Codex. To mention those as well is simply Just

Maybe, but then the title shouldn't have included "on the Codex". Specifically seeing Alpha Protocol mentioned (yeah I know Dicksmoker didn't include it, but several others have since) is weird, as I remember about 3 or 4 people on here who like it and not a sinle person who thinks it's best gaem evar*. This is like that thing Jimbob was talking about.

Maybe, but if there was an aggregation of Codex opinions I might know better/care. Have no interest in getting into a discussion of "what is required to make something overrated on the Codex"

Aside from Arcanum and the Witcher (two games I tried not too long ago, that I feel no better for having done), the rest I mostly went with bloated Metacritic scores

 

[denizsi]

And if you piss someone off, all you have to do is beat them up and everything is good again.

And that completely fits the setting, while also reasonably realistic, showing who's the alpha in a herd and all that. Entire world pretty much works that way actually, with the underdog having to swallow his pride and keep his tail between his legs. Would I be wrong to guess that you'd prefer if every fight was to death?

It may make sense based on trainers, but if we're going for realism here than we should do away with skill points altogether and implement the ESF level-with-use system. That's the most realistic method

I can't believe I was naive enough to reply to this piece of shit with a straight face. I once also had the same delusion about the merits of use-based systems but it wore off quickly. How many years have you been around here, now, and still believing in this bullshit.

Every time I try to keep an open mind and treat minors as my equals, I live to regret it.

But since I'm not a learning animal, I might as well keep doing it: Rest of your reply is equally shit. You basically only have a problem of preference with being restricted about choices because they aren't unconditional. You don't have to like it but then that's pretty much what separates the elite from the lowlife plebs who want everything then and there.

Also, what's that about open world and difficulty of fights? Are your favourite RPGs inconsequential hiking simulators ala Oblivion and the like, by any chance? I'm afraid you have not a single valid point there and beyond.

All I'm saying is that if the locations unfold in a more or less linear fashion it's misleading to call the game open-world. Which most people do when talking about the Gothic series. The exception is Gothic 3, but that game has its own problems.

Has it ever occurred to you that open world doesn't also have to be synonymous with an "inviting world"? Just because you have an impulse to kill every hostile you see before you can move on with a piece of mind doesn't mean you have to in order to explore. Gothic 1 in particular is very liberal with this attitude, giving you plenty of other paths. And really, you aren't leaving any alternative here, short of the Bethesda way of doing things.

What JarlFrank said. You probably want to just smash the buttons mindlessly while bunny-hopping around to avoid getting hit.

Except that that is what Gothic combat basically is. Keep swinging steadily and continuously hitting the enemy so that they keep getting stunned. So many fights are determined by who hits first. If you're fighting multiple enemies keep jumping backward until you're only facing one at a time.[/quote]

If only I received a penny for every time I heard some bullshit...

The whole 50s vibe did a good job of ruining lots of realism for a game that was supposed to be very gritty. So the lulz is very much imbedded into the setting.

I rest my case. Clueless minor or not, a moron is a moron and will be a moron. I don't if it's a wonder or a curse that you are hanging out not in ESF but here.

 

[denizsi]

1. Arcanum:
Terrible combat. In a crpg. With a lot of combat to be had. Enough said.

This is something I don't really understand. Arcanum's combat is heavily criticized on the Codex but Fallout's, not that much.

Is it because magic is overpowered in Arcanum ? 0 AP Explosives ? No control over companions ?

Combat in Fallout simply works. It's simplicity is beautiful. You can exploit it but it doesn't disrupt the entire game. In Arcanum, you have to make combat work and what that means is, it's terribly unbalanced and isn't something you can look forward to by any means.

Also in Fallout, you can pick your fights. In Arcanum, fights pick you, and do so in gross numbers. Half the game is a meat grinder.

 

[baronjohn]

Also in Fallout, you can pick your fights. In Arcanum, fights pick you, and do so in gross numbers. Half the game is a meat grinder.

Roffles!

bullshit,

moran.

 

[oscar]

The only compulsory meat-grinders I can think of are the Black Mountain Mines and that mountain-pass. Even then a solo thief could sneak through them pretty easily I'd imagine.

The Fallout's had alot more compulsory fights. The vast majority of fights and quests in Arcanum could be side-stepped with dialogue or thievery.

 

[attackfighter]

StarCraft 2 has a number of rabid fanboys who defend all it's flaws no matter how glaring they are.

Or atleast it did at release, now only the uber fanboys remain.

 

[janjetina]

I see that the "Game xy is overrated because I think it's not an RPG" crowd has come out of woodwork. Whether the game is RPG or not has no bearing on its quality, and on it being overrated.

The Witcher gets praised on the Codex, but its character system is simplistic, with badly designed progression (+10% to damage and similar boni), and its combat is a QTE twitchfest. All it offers are story, writing and setting, but the omnipresent combat is too intrusive, earning the game its "The Twitcher" moniker.

Icewind dale series gets more praise than it deserves as well. It is more combat oriented version of Baldur's gate, but infinity engine combat just doesn't represent much of a tactical challenge. This combat system in a game whose main feature is combat can be salvaged by excellent encounter design, but IWD hasn't accomplished that, and encounter design in IWD 2 was particularly bad, with many nameless opponents (Orcs, bugbears). The fact that modern "RPGs" have popamole combat systems in place doesn't cancel the fact that Infinity engine combat is mediocre in terms of tactical challenge.

Mass Effect 2 is overrated, as people consider it a good game, while not an RPG. It is a bad game, not due to it not being an RPG, but due to it being a bad shooter. A popamole shooter is, by definition, a bad shooter, providing boredom by repetitiveness instead of challenge. Since there is no character system to speak of, all this game has are shooting, story, writing and setting, and the latter three elements should have been of Nobel prize for literature quality instead of standard Biowarian drivel to offset the horrors of combat.

 

[Pelvis Knot]

A stupid question!

ALL games on the Codex are overrated: just use the top ten lists, you'll find 10 most overrated games in each genre.

There are no good videogames. Only overrated. On the Codex.

 

[Malakal]

1. Arcanum.
Way too overrated. Weak in many aspects, the story isn't that good, there is not much C&C, combat is boring shit, companions are hardly interesting. setting is nice tho, but still I don't like it nearly as much as Codes does.
2. Gothic series.
For me the over-abundance of combat coupled with it being weak and boring makes Gothic games hardly playable. And even when I play them I can't finish due to boredom.
3. Risen.
Torrented. Installed. Played. It's not bad, but best game of the year? Please. Guess its because its Gothic-like.
4. Divine Divinity series.
The first one was good and I liked it for some time, but got bored. Other parts are even more boring, with the newest one boring me to death during the first two quests.

 

[Pelvis Knot]

So yesterday I was making a new party in Icewind Dale, choosing portraits...
I went like: no, this is Darth Roxor, no, Malakal, no Excommunicator...

:D

 

[denizsi]

The only compulsory meat-grinders I can think of are the Black Mountain Mines and that mountain-pass. Even then a solo thief could sneak through them pretty easily I'd imagine.

The Fallout's had alot more compulsory fights. The vast majority of fights and quests in Arcanum could be side-stepped with dialogue or thievery.

Have we played the same games?

BMM, sewers, the island with the old fart mage, Vendigroth, just the first few that comes to my mind.

And I insist that you give sneaking a through try in this game.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

Everything.

 

[Excommunicator]

So yesterday I was making a new party in Icewind Dale, choosing portraits...
I went like: no, this is Darth Roxor, no, Malakal, no Excommunicator...

:D

This happened to me in Arcanum with a bunch of faces. The one I thought most suitable for my character happened to be Lyric Suite's but I just couldn't select it - I would've felt like I was Lyric Suite the whole game :/

 

[Hegel]

The Elder Scrolls.
Anachronox.

 

[Forest Dweller]

So yesterday I was making a new party in Icewind Dale, choosing portraits...
I went like: no, this is Darth Roxor, no, Malakal, no Excommunicator...

:D

This happened to me in Arcanum with a bunch of faces. The one I thought most suitable for my character happened to be Lyric Suite's but I just couldn't select it - I would've felt like I was Lyric Suite the whole game :/

Just roleplay as Lyric Suite. It shouldn't be hard; just be very condescending to women and other races in the game.

 

[CrimHead]

The Icewind Dale and Diablo games.

Also, OP sucks at video games.

THIS GAME PUNISHES ME FOR DYING

KIND OF LIKE GAMES DID BEFORE NEXT GEN

IT SUCKS

Protip: Demon's Souls encourages methodical precision. This is not a game were you can make a bunch of errors. You can't just sit on your fat ass and enjoy the scenery like you do with other games, you worthless piece of shit cocksucking story-faggot. You have to be an active participant.

 

[Forest Dweller]

Did you miss my Ninja Gaiden reference, or are you too retarded and ignorant to understand its significance? I'd like to see you get through the game on a harder difficulty, hell even on normal; you're bound to have a rough ride. PROTIP: automatically assuming that I want all my games to be easy just makes you look like a dumbfuck. Ninja Gaiden is more challenging than Demon's Souls ever could be. I didn't get that far in Demon's Souls but I could already tell that it wouldn't approach the challenge level of Ninja Gaiden. No surprise there; few games do. And Ninja Gaiden even managed to not force me through loads of boring shit every time I died. Imagine that. It had save stations throughout each level, like most console games, but even restarting from a save station didn't make things a boring grind until I got to the part that killed me, for the simple reason that even the weakest enemies can give you a hard time if you're not on your toes. That's the nature of good, REAL challenge; it constantly forces you to improve your skills and utilize the system to its fullest in order to progress. Bad challenge forces you to slog through boring shit over and over again out of some misplaced need to "punish" the player for not being alert enough, which is exactly what Demon's Souls does. There was no challenge in going back through the beginning of the level up to the point where I died, because I had already mastered those sections. You want to punish me? How about making every encounter actually challenging so that I feel like every step of the way I'm being kicked in the balls. That's punishment enough, but at the same time its constructive punishment, since I'm being forced to get better. Demon's Souls doesn't do that. All it does is waste my time as a gamer, and all it measures is my willingness to take it like a bitch. I refuse to be anyone's bitch, least of all some shitty game developer, or some dumbass poster who likes to spout shit about challenge in games but really doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about. So you can fuck off with that elitist bullshit right now.

 

[Forest Dweller]

The whole 50s vibe did a good job of ruining lots of realism for a game that was supposed to be very gritty. So the lulz is very much imbedded into the setting.

I rest my case. Clueless minor or not, a moron is a moron and will be a moron. I don't if it's a wonder or a curse that you are hanging out not in ESF but here.

If you believe that retro sci-fi is a good setting, you're the moron. It has and always will be a shit idea. The Fallouts were good in spite of it, not because of it.

 

[commie]

Everything is overrated and is shit according to the Codex.

I really wonder if there's a game that at least half of the codex doesn't hate.

 

[CrimHead]

Did you miss my Ninja Gaiden reference, or are you too retarded and ignorant to understand its significance? I'd like to see you get through the game on a harder difficulty, hell even on normal; you're bound to have a rough ride. PROTIP: automatically assuming that I want all my games to be easy just makes you look like a dumbfuck. Ninja Gaiden is more challenging than Demon's Souls ever could be. I didn't get that far in Demon's Souls but I could already tell that it wouldn't approach the challenge level of Ninja Gaiden. No surprise there; few games do. And Ninja Gaiden even managed to not force me through loads of boring shit every time I died. Imagine that. It had save stations throughout each level, like most console games, but even restarting from a save station didn't make things a boring grind until I got to the part that killed me, for the simple reason that even the weakest enemies can give you a hard time if you're not on your toes. That's the nature of good, REAL challenge; it constantly forces you to improve your skills and utilize the system to its fullest in order to progress. Bad challenge forces you to slog through boring shit over and over again out of some misplaced need to "punish" the player for not being alert enough, which is exactly what Demon's Souls does. There was no challenge in going back through the beginning of the level up to the point where I died, because I had already mastered those sections. You want to punish me? How about making every encounter actually challenging so that I feel like every step of the way I'm being kicked in the balls. That's punishment enough, but at the same time its constructive punishment, since I'm being forced to get better. Demon's Souls doesn't do that. All it does is waste my time as a gamer, and all it measures is my willingness to take it like a bitch. I refuse to be anyone's bitch, least of all some shitty game developer, or some dumbass poster who likes to spout shit about challenge in games but really doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about. So you can fuck off with that elitist bullshit right now.

Early console games did not have saves.

Saves are next-gen.

Demon's Souls is the perfect balance between iron-man mode and pussy mode.

 

[BLOBERT]

BRO SO TRUE NO SAVES ON INTELLIVISION BUT NES CONSOLFAG TRASH RUINED THAT SHIT WITH ZELDA AND THE METROID CODES AND SHIT NEWFAG FAGGORT BULLSHIT

 

[BLOBERT]

BRO MY PIC OF MOST UNIVERSALLY OVERATTED CODEX GAMES IS ANY OF THE GOLDBOX SHIT THEY WERE GENERIC FROM WHAT I REMEMBER

I PLAYED CURSE OF AZURE BONDS AND CHAMPIONSK OF KRYNN AND BUCK ROGERS AT LEAST AND I WAS NOT IMPRESSED AS A LITTLE KID THEY WERE DERIVATIVE AND GENERIC COMPARED TO ULTIMA 5

 

[Forest Dweller]

Did you miss my Ninja Gaiden reference, or are you too retarded and ignorant to understand its significance? I'd like to see you get through the game on a harder difficulty, hell even on normal; you're bound to have a rough ride. PROTIP: automatically assuming that I want all my games to be easy just makes you look like a dumbfuck. Ninja Gaiden is more challenging than Demon's Souls ever could be. I didn't get that far in Demon's Souls but I could already tell that it wouldn't approach the challenge level of Ninja Gaiden. No surprise there; few games do. And Ninja Gaiden even managed to not force me through loads of boring shit every time I died. Imagine that. It had save stations throughout each level, like most console games, but even restarting from a save station didn't make things a boring grind until I got to the part that killed me, for the simple reason that even the weakest enemies can give you a hard time if you're not on your toes. That's the nature of good, REAL challenge; it constantly forces you to improve your skills and utilize the system to its fullest in order to progress. Bad challenge forces you to slog through boring shit over and over again out of some misplaced need to "punish" the player for not being alert enough, which is exactly what Demon's Souls does. There was no challenge in going back through the beginning of the level up to the point where I died, because I had already mastered those sections. You want to punish me? How about making every encounter actually challenging so that I feel like every step of the way I'm being kicked in the balls. That's punishment enough, but at the same time its constructive punishment, since I'm being forced to get better. Demon's Souls doesn't do that. All it does is waste my time as a gamer, and all it measures is my willingness to take it like a bitch. I refuse to be anyone's bitch, least of all some shitty game developer, or some dumbass poster who likes to spout shit about challenge in games but really doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about. So you can fuck off with that elitist bullshit right now.

Early console games did not have saves.

Saves are next-gen.

Demon's Souls is the perfect balance between iron-man mode and pussy mode.

Yeah, too much for me to expect you to address, acknowledge, or even comprehend any of my points.

 

[Flanged]

And Ninja Gaiden even managed to not force me through loads of boring shit every time I died. Imagine that. It had save stations throughout each level, like most console games, but even restarting from a save station didn't make things a boring grind until I got to the part that killed me, for the simple reason that even the weakest enemies can give you a hard time if you're not on your toes. That's the nature of good, REAL challenge; it constantly forces you to improve your skills and utilize the system to its fullest in order to progress. ...You want to punish me? How about making every encounter actually challenging so that I feel like every step of the way I'm being kicked in the balls. That's punishment enough, but at the same time its constructive punishment, since I'm being forced to get better.

Severance: Blade of Darkness let you save anywhere, but was still capable of providing real challenge in that way. Even once you're strong, a bog-standard goblin can still kill you if you do something stupid. You could throw weapons that you weren't yet strong enough to weild, which is a bit unrealistic, but became a vital tactic to overcome strong enemies or groups (as well as using the environment to your advantage). Damn that was a great game, and is still underrated everyplace, except maybe here. Just wanted to say that.