Who are the best modern cRPG developers?

[Butter]

We didn't see any of their games yet, but it is Digimancy. I believe in George Zając.

Zero flops in 6 years. Better than most devs.

 

[huskarls]

sewing one button doesn't make you a tailor, making one game doesn't make you a developer. eye rolling hipster behavior I've come to expect of codex; I've seen owlcat and larian reception change here based solely off their market saturation

 

[Swen]

sewing one button doesn't make you a tailor, making one game doesn't make you a developer. eye rolling hipster behavior I've come to expect of codex; I've seen owlcat and larian reception change here based solely off their market saturation

Indeed. After Larian got popular the Codex knee jerk reaction was to start hating them. Pure edgy reactionary bs to virtue signal on this board how anti mainstream they are.

"L..l...look at me fellow codexers, I'm hating on Larian! I'm a cool kid!"

 

[cioran]

sewing one button doesn't make you a tailor, making one game doesn't make you a developer. eye rolling hipster behavior I've come to expect of codex; I've seen owlcat and larian reception change here based solely off their market saturation

Indeed. After Larian got popular the Codex knee jerk reaction was to start hating them. Pure edgy reactionary bs to virtue signal on this board how anti mainstream they are.

"L..l...look at me fellow codexers, I'm hating on Larian! I'm a cool kid!"

Not sure the popularity of Larian changed the codexer's perception, maybe the woke content of your games has something to do with it?

 

[cioran]

sewing one button doesn't make you a tailor, making one game doesn't make you a developer. eye rolling hipster behavior I've come to expect of codex; I've seen owlcat and larian reception change here based solely off their market saturation

While I agree many of the codexers tend to be edgy and dismissive just because of the "badass image" they will get, market saturation as you put it, might just be one of the reasons for this situation. As I told Swen, changing the ethos of the developer just so you cater to the masses and making sure you don't offend anybody/you are politically correct, might be the main reason for the actual change.

 

[Swen]

sewing one button doesn't make you a tailor, making one game doesn't make you a developer. eye rolling hipster behavior I've come to expect of codex; I've seen owlcat and larian reception change here based solely off their market saturation

Indeed. After Larian got popular the Codex knee jerk reaction was to start hating them. Pure edgy reactionary bs to virtue signal on this board how anti mainstream they are.

"L..l...look at me fellow codexers, I'm hating on Larian! I'm a cool kid!"

Not sure the popularity of Larian changed the codexer's perception, maybe the woke content of your games has something to do with it?

Nothing wrong with the content, reviews of critics and actual people who played the game reflect the high quality of the game.

And sure it has some woke elements but on the other hand it's also anti woke since you can kill anything woke you want, the game won't punish you for that. In a real woke game you wouldn't be able to do that.

 

[huskarls]

sewing one button doesn't make you a tailor, making one game doesn't make you a developer. eye rolling hipster behavior I've come to expect of codex; I've seen owlcat and larian reception change here based solely off their market saturation

While I agree many of the codexers tend to be edgy and dismissive just because of the "badass image" they will get, market saturation as you put it, might just be one of the reasons for this situation. As I told Swen, changing the ethos of the developer just so you cater to the masses and making sure you don't offend anybody/you are politically correct, might be the main reason for the actual change.

I think we can both agree many codex posters tend to use the kid's gloves for indie developers and exaggerate flaws for larger developers when the brand name shouldn't affect evaluating the game by itself, though you are suggesting these developers are doing certain things as the cause. I've got to say for both my examples I'm didn't notice any change from Larian when they made Dragon Commander 11 years ago to bg3, for reference since no one cares about dragon commander you can enact policies like gay marriage, they have romance centerfold, and you can do edgy things like tell a woman that rape babies improve the economy with cheap labor. For owlcat I think they actually got (slightly) less woke overtime...

but back to my original point they are big now so there is more exaggerating and fixating on known flaws than when it was just the divinity series, and it starts to get really ridiculous in the opposite direction when people say with a straight face one guy working on underrail is the greatest developer company or a gothic mod is GOTY

 

[mondblut]

You gotta ask these purist the question; is Gothic no CRPG?

On a scale from Tomb Raider to Pool of Radiance, it certainly leans towards the former.

 

[Modron]

On a scale from Tomb Raider to Pool of Radiance, it certainly leans towards the former.

Pool of Radiance isn't an rpg by codex standards, party manager guy has no stats and that is who you're playing because you can add and remove party members at the training hall.

 

[roguefrog]

I have never been a fan of Larian studios, having played all their games. BG3 is their best game by default because ironically D&D rules retricts and limits their nonsense.

For Original Sin 2 alone I have a ton of caveats.

• The inventory system is dogshit.
• The armor/magic armor damage system is arbitrary as fuck. Meant to block status effects and make them more deterministic. Not even DOS1 had that and it’s better for it.
• Chained party movement because it makes tactical positioning before a fight a fucking chore. I’ll take bad pathfinding with a lasso every single time over this.
• Equipment is scaled to your level when you acquire it. This is ballz. It means you must replace ALL of your equipment every few levels or fall behind. Even named unique items. And generally, level scaling of any kind this extreme is always shit. See Oblivion.
• Sections of the map are strictly zoned by level like an MMO, to the point of absurdity. Disneyland style maps. Don't go to Demon land yet!
• All the puzzle dungeons. All of them. They are bad and Larian should feel bad.
• Environmental pixel hunt "object find" mini-games. Larian loves having you find a hidden switch camouflaged in the environment without a item highlight button. It’s maddening.
• The latter two challenge the player, not the player character, which is big RPG sin in my book
• Regarding the combat, aiming spells vs obstructions, ending in a total mess of elemental melange, generally with fire everywhere. Everyone is on fire. All the time. It’s excessive.

 

[gurugeorge]

I mean it's pretty obviously Owlcat and Larian - despite their admitted flaws, they are objectively the best modern CRPG developers (i.e. the people making the best CRPGs in the current year). Which could be a low bar from some points of view, but it's nevertheless true (unless you want to include small indie people and teams that do their best but don't have the budgets to present the whole package of RPGs as sprawling adventure sims with tactical combat).

 

[GentlemanCthulhu]

I have never been a fan of Larian studios, having played all their games. BG3 is their best game by default because ironically D&D rules retricts and limits their nonsense.

For Original Sin 2 alone I have a ton of caveats.

• The inventory system is dogshit.
• The armor/magic armor damage system is arbitrary as fuck. Meant to block status effects and make them more deterministic. Not even DOS1 had that and it’s better for it.
• Chained party movement because it makes tactical positioning before a fight a fucking chore. I’ll take bad pathfinding with a lasso every single time over this.
• Equipment is scaled to your level when you acquire it. This is ballz. It means you must replace ALL of your equipment every few levels or fall behind. Even named unique items. And generally, level scaling of any kind this extreme is always shit. See Oblivion.
• Sections of the map are strictly zoned by level like an MMO, to the point of absurdity. Disneyland style maps. Don't go to Demon land yet!
• All the puzzle dungeons. All of them. They are bad and Larian should feel bad.
• Environmental pixel hunts "object find" mini-games. Larian loves having you find a hidden switch camouflaged in the environment without a item highlight button. It’s maddening.
• The latter two challenge the player, not the player character, which is big RPG sin in my book
• Regarding the combat, aiming spells vs obstructions, ending in a total mess of elemental melange, generally with fire everywhere. Everyone is on fire. All the time. It’s excessive.

All I have to say about this is that BG3's UI/UX/inventory system is *far* worse than D:OS 2's.

 

[NecroLord]

I mean it's pretty obviously Owlcat and Larian - despite their admitted flaws, they are objectively the best modern CRPG developers (i.e. the people making the best CRPGs in the current year). Which could be a low bar from some points of view, but it's nevertheless true (unless you want to include small indie people and teams that do their best but don't have the budgets to present the whole package of RPGs as sprawling adventure sims with tactical combat).

So bear and dialogue/romance shit is the new winning formula now?

RPGs have peaked.

 

[Gandalf]

I don't know about the bear, but RPG games have peaked when they added the gentials in the character creator.

The studio that did it first is king of modern RPG. So, CDPR?

 

[NecroLord]

I don't know about the bear, but RPG games have peaked when they added the gentials in the character creator.

The studio that did it first is king of modern RPG. So, CDPR?

I approve of some quality T&A, but nobody wants to see cocks on screen though.

Just put some boobs and asses there and call it a game.
REAL GOTY level shit, yeah?
Though more than likely game journos are gonna go apeshit because oh how dare those BASED incel chuds put good looking women with big boobs and asses in their game? It objectifies and sexualizes WOMYNZ!!!

 

[ShiningSoldier]

As for me, Larian are fine, but they're not very good at making exciting plot lines. Almost every plot line in their last 3 games looks like a cheap story of a Chosen One, and I'm really tired of such stories. I mean, almost every companion in BG3 is the Chosen One!
I think they were better when they were making stories about Damian.
For me, the best modern RPG developer is the Chronicles of Myrtana team. Polska strong.

 

[roguefrog]

All I have to say about this is that BG3's UI/UX/inventory system is *far* worse than D:OS 2's.

Oh, I know.

BG3 UI/UX definately blows donkey diarrhea ass explosion straight into your face right from the start.

That absolutely atrotcious mess of unreadable jumbled icons on the toolbar when you first wake up from your pod that you have to painstakingly make sense of and unfuck for every character in the party. And it's only downhill from there.

Switch now to Solasta's UI...same system (D&D5e) and it's a fucking wonderful dream in comparison.

 

[roguefrog]

The thing is I already know why Larian UI/UX is absolute dogshit, and will remain so for the forseeable future, by design.

It's an UI only built and optimized for one player controlling one player character in a multiplayer game. This applies to BG3 and DOS1/2. (Their early games were all single player character with ironically/noshit much better UI...)

Ergo the single-player UI/UX experience is TOTAL ASS. You're having to manage multiple players characters UIs that were purpose built to be managed by one player per PC.

 

[kaboom]

CD PROJEKT red and Larian Studios, for sure.

 

[NaturallyCarnivorousSheep]

The latter two challenge the player, not the player character, which is big RPG sin in my book

Heard autobattlers were big once upon the time, maybe you should try them.

Also I think the answer is kind of obvious, there were 4 studios with money and time to make a relatively high end cRPG in the recent years.
Larian, obsidian, inexile and owlcat.
I couldn't get into kingmaker but I think owlcat has a degree of edge because they're trying to go outside of RPGs as character action simulators, there's a layer of higher level gameplay, taken out of modules they're adapting and I think eventually it will result in something great.
Obsidian sadly is no more. I liked PoE and PoE2, while it's obvious the new generation of writers can't do anything right, I'm no storyfaggot so I don't care. The problem is that right now one of these poor writers is apparently the lead on their next game, while oft criticised, but overall competent Sawyer is basically on permanent vacation. I just don't have any hope in their output. I think the biggest flaw of them however is mishandling of Tyranny, a game that could've been good, but they've decided to defraud the money.
InExile was always the weakest of the lot, but they did surprise me with Wasteland 3 so you never know if they won't have any more surprises in stock. I'd say it's the opposite of Obsidian, they wouldn't get any attention from me few years ago but nowadays I'm kinda curious. What's important imo is they got rid of the cargo cult designers since they were the biggest drawbacks of both wasteland 2 and the entire idea behind borement.
Larian has always done the best impression on me ever since Divinity:Original Sin. In some ways it seemed as if it's the cRPG that was made after 10 years of other cRPGs being made, except the 10 years prior it had very few games of this type made and the only turn based game that was remotely RPG-ish and did well was nuxcom, that was a huge inspiration for most other TB games that followed, but not DOS. Their games have their faults(dogpill on 5E all you want but it's a great improvement over their own systems) and even back in 2014 you've had a dedicated bunch of their haters here, but the interactive character of gameplay and quest/area design that largely just assumes "you have tools, now use them" is something others have yet to learn.

Of the smaller people I think lofi games made one of the best games ever with kenshi, but I don't see how they'll manage to make anything but bigger and more polished kenshi in the future(not a bad thing). There are some sad cases like Logic Arists as well, a studio that already made 3 good games but decided they're too good for normal gaming and web3 is the future so you can't even talk about them in present time. Didn't like underrail, duh

 

[gurugeorge]

As for me, Larian are fine, but they're not very good at making exciting plot lines. Almost every plot line in their last 3 games looks like a cheap story of a Chosen One, and I'm really tired of such stories. I mean, almost every companion in BG3 is the Chosen One!
I think they were better when they were making stories about Damian.
For me, the best modern RPG developer is the Chronicles of Myrtana team. Polska strong.

Yeah, stories really aren't their strong suit. They're great at reactivity and to some extent characterization and C&C, but their stories are either generic or "everything but the kitchen sink" epic.

I don't have the link to hand, but I recently saw a YT vid comparing the story/experience of Pillows 1 vs. BG3 - it was interesting, despite the wordiness and lore dumping, the Pillows story is more interesting, thought provoking and in-depth - i.e. more of a story, not so generic.

 

[gurugeorge]

I mean it's pretty obviously Owlcat and Larian - despite their admitted flaws, they are objectively the best modern CRPG developers (i.e. the people making the best CRPGs in the current year). Which could be a low bar from some points of view, but it's nevertheless true (unless you want to include small indie people and teams that do their best but don't have the budgets to present the whole package of RPGs as sprawling adventure sims with tactical combat).

So bear and dialogue/romance shit is the new winning formula now?

RPGs have peaked.

That's such a tiny part of the game though, and quite optional really. For the most part BG3 is a good, occasionally very absorbing CRPG with some good set pieces (in terms of story+combat), same as the Owlcat games.

And if you use the appropriate "no alphabets" stuff, clean up the romances etc., all that bs is even less intrusive.

The perfect the enemy of the good. We might all wish that Troika had taken over the world and that Kimberlé Crenshaw had been strangled in her cradle, or whatever, but that's not the world we live in.