Decline Why 95% of the "modern" cRPG are so lame?

[damagedbrains]

We already had this discussion.
It's partially cultural, more and more commercial shit cornering the market and the good stuff can't reach the mass audience anymore.
Also game devs tethering on this mass market garbage.

But it's also because of the players.
You grow a child on white industrial bread, fizzy drinks and candy and he'll be perfectly happy about it, he won't even want to eat anything else.

Same goes for video games, no studio with money (they're not AAA they're more like ZZZ) released a good cRPG in 20 years.
The new generations don't even know what a cRPG is, let alone a good one.

They're the perfect consumers for the mass market, they never developed their taste because they're only fed with garbage and they can't get enough of it.

So, when a studio develops something half baked but that looks good and even looks like the real deal at first glance, the fan boys jizz all over themselves.
It's like offering a glass of half filtered Ganges water to someone who only drank Ganges water his whole life.

because women and chads;

You need a woman in you life mate.

 

[JarlFrank]

Is that not enough "role-playing" for you?
What "role-playing" is there to be done in Wizardry 1? Less than in JA2, yet it is an RPG.
Why, then, is JA2 not an RPG when it has more role-playing than Wizardry 1, and has perfectly fine RPG mechanics (character creation, stats, skills, use-based skill leveling)?

Come on, it's like you've never took part of any conversation on the topic around here or you've played the ostrich all along...

Oh I've taken part in enough of those discussions.

And you would be shocked to know what kinds of games I consider to be "RPG"

 

[Momock]

You create your own character at the start of the game. Plenty of options there. I usually make her a chick who's good with rifles.
Your character's skills increase with use, like in The Elder Scrolls and other RPGs with use-based XP systems.
All the mercs you hire have stats that increase with use, just like your own char. The mercs even have personalities and some are incompatible with each other. Having Fidel and Flo in the same squad will make both pissed off, for example, because Fidel considers her a worthless soldier.
The game is also non-linear in that you can attack the cities in any order you want, or even skip them, because ultimately all you really need to do is get to Deidranna and kill her.

Is that not enough "role-playing" for you?
What "role-playing" is there to be done in Wizardry 1? Less than in JA2, yet it is an RPG.
Why, then, is JA2 not an RPG when it has more role-playing than Wizardry 1, and has perfectly fine RPG mechanics (character creation, stats, skills, use-based skill leveling)?

1/ You play JA2 as the guy in front of the computer screen (so yourself self-inserted, like in Myst or Baten Kaitos for example). You don't create "your own character", you're just free to create and customize one of your mercs. You don't even have a player character with stats, how the hell can it be an RPG?

2/ Wizardry 1 is an hack'n'slash, not an RPG.

 

[JarlFrank]

2/ Wizardry 1 is an hack'n'slash, not an RPG.

Thanks for making this post, now everyone knows that your opinion can be freely discarded.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

2/ Wizardry 1 is an hack'n'slash, not an RPG.

A friend of mine who used to work in game design says that the biggest problem with roleplaying game stories is that developers mistake writing more for writing better and that other genres are better suited for interactive storytelling. What do you think

If the central narrative is meaningfully interactive, I would classify it as an RPG. That is, I consider interactive storytelling to be the primary defining characteristic of RPGs.

I don't disagree that some designers write too much, but I think that's an indictment of specific content, not the fundamentals behind the genre.

You would not consider old dungeon crawlers as RPGs, then? And do not many adventure games center around interactive storytelling?

I would consider them RPGs by the definitions of their time. If someone were to make Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord today, I would not consider it to be an RPG.

Spoiler

Josh Sawyer is the handmaiden of decline.

 

[Varnaan]

Maybe because you all niggas were jerking off over popamole shit like The Witcher 3 and New Vegas.

 

[DalekFlay]

Maybe because you all niggas were jerking off over popamole shit like The Witcher 3...

Fuck yeah, man! Give it to 'em!

...and New Vegas.

Wait what...

 

[Heroic Liberator]

And you would be shocked to know what kinds of games I consider to be "RPG"

Do say.

 

[Tigranes]

Half the people here played and enjoyed Skyrim, Fallout 4, Mass Effect, Inquisition...

Tell me again about the unwashed masses / evil feminist monster / josh sawyer's bike choices / people who eat the wrong kind of hot dogs bringing in the decline, eh

 

[rusty_shackleford]

behead those that insult mass effect

 

[Burning Bridges]

People who consider JA2 to not be an RPG are just too small-minded to wrap their heads around the idea that one game can be an excellent entry in two genres at once (strategy and RPG).

Thing is, as RPG JA2 is somewhat lacking.

Z.B., each character has some skills available - which are more akin to perks in Fallout or feats in Underrail. But assignment of skills starts and ends at chargen. You have two "skillpoints" for your char, so you can pick up two skills or have one skill in expert. That's not great RPG design. Again, z.B., I make a sneaky char and pick up Stealth expert at chargen. Then, later, I would surely benefit from related perks - I may be interested in Night Ops, Camouflaged, Ambidextrous for better use of silenced weapons or Full Auto for better use of silenced SMGs. But I can't pick up any new skills. This limits character progression a lot.

Well anything could still have been better, but you have 80 or so mercs with vastly different stats that all play different.

I don't know about you but I had mercs who were just there to carry a gun (I also enjoy to drag duds like Hamous or Ira with me because they can learn), others were born killing machines, and others gradually began to kick ass when I gave them the right weapons and the right tactics. It really feels like playing a RPG. The IMP was the least interesting for me, always turned into some sort of pointman with stealth skills and marksmanship, often female because the females in JA2 are hilarious as fuck.

What really hurts is that with JA2 Sirtech had reached the point where they should receive a nobel price in gaming, and now this art of making RPGs has been lost forever. Maybe some day a future generation will successfully study those classics but right now there is no hope - there will be shit upon shit.

 

[Burning Bridges]

And you would be shocked to know what kinds of games I consider to be "RPG"

Nothing that's coming from you can shock me any more.

 

[JarlFrank]

And you would be shocked to know what kinds of games I consider to be "RPG"

Do say.

And you would be shocked to know what kinds of games I consider to be "RPG"

Nothing that's coming from you can shock me any more.

The Sims is an RPG

 

[Heroic Liberator]

The Sims is an RPG

I understand where you are coming from, but it's still a stretch since its gameplay is constructed solely around emergent storytelling. Which is not to say that there aren't plenty of RPGs with a low emphasis being put on the plot, but there's still a predesigned narrative to follow even if it's just going from area X to area Y and ending the game in area Z.

And that's without even mentioning the big elephant in the room which is the lack of combat.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Why do you think that a role playing game needs to have combat?

That leaves 90% of the potential aside, like the people who had problems when the first Buck Rogers game came out and they felt there must be no science fictiion in an rpg.

I would for example say Motorsport Manager is a RPG equivalent, practically anything in the game is stat based.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Why do you think that a role playing game needs to have combat?

Because otherwise how would you distinguish it from the simulation genre? Both can have PCs with stats & skills that can be leveled up.

Spoiler

That being said, combat in itself still wouldn't make it an RPG imho since I don't consider the Mount & Blade series as being RPGs either.

 

[Burning Bridges]

I don't understand the answer tbh.

2/3 of simulations have combat but normally no stats.

Combat is no genre

 

[Heroic Liberator]

I don't understand the question tbh.

2/3 of simulations have combat but normally no stats.

Let me rephrase then - why would The Sims franchise fit better into the RPG genre than the simulation one?

 

[Burning Bridges]

Can't say because I haven't played it.

 

[Commissar Draco]

1/ You play JA2 as the guy in front of the computer screen (so yourself self-inserted, like in Myst or Baten Kaitos for example). You don't create "your own character", you're just free to create and customize one of your mercs. You don't even have a player character with stats, how the hell can it be an RPG?

You make psychological test as Laptop guy and the merc you made is your PC with stat reflecting your choices, you also set other stats yourself too... how dumb you must be to not see it? Also lot of RPGs have play as party so Wizardy is not RPG now? Dark Sun? Ishtar? What a dumb f...k gods.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Can't say because I haven't played it.

When in doubt, just use a reductio ad Lilura and ask yourself WWLS. And the authoritative answer to that question is that The Sims is not an RPG.

 

[TemplarGR]

When in doubt, just use a reductio ad Lilura and ask yourself WWLS. And the authoritative answer to that question is that The Sims is not an RPG.

The Sims is DEFINITELY an RPG.

 

[TemplarGR]

You make psychological test as Laptop guy and the merc you made is your PC with stat reflecting your choices, you also set other stats yourself too... how dumb you must be to not see it? Also lot of RPGs have play as party so Wizardy is not RPG now? Dark Sun? Ishtar? What a dumb f...k gods.

So you are roleplaying a guy who is playing a roleplaying game on his laptop? Roleception?

 

[Black_Willow]

1/ You play JA2 as the guy in front of the computer screen (so yourself self-inserted, like in Myst or Baten Kaitos for example). You don't create "your own character", you're just free to create and customize one of your mercs. You don't even have a player character with stats, how the hell can it be an RPG?

You make psychological test as Laptop guy and the merc you made is your PC with stat reflecting your choices, you also set other stats yourself too... how dumb you must be to not see it? Also lot of RPGs have play as party so Wizardy is not RPG now? Dark Sun? Ishtar? What a dumb f...k gods.

One person directly controlling a group of characters = strategy game, not RPG. In PnP you always control a single character in a single session.
Are UFOs and Panzer General also "party based RPGs" nowadays?
Sir Tech people rightly called JA2 a tactical game, then bunch of neckbeards like Lilura came and said "WOW, ITZ AN ARPEEGEE!"

 

[JarlFrank]

The Sims is an RPG

I understand where you are coming from, but it's still a stretch since its gameplay is constructed solely around emergent storytelling. Which is not to say that there aren't plenty of RPGs with a low emphasis being put on the plot, but there's still a predesigned narrative to follow even if it's just going from area X to area Y and ending the game in area Z.

There is an adventure mode in Dwarf Fortress where you can just explore and do random quests and there's no end goal, unlike most other roguelikes