Why first person perspective is becoming rarer and rarer among RPGs?

[Lim-Dûl]

Because zoomers can't handle first person perspective without getting vertigo.

 

[undecaf]

Why we are having so few RPGs in FP?

Because developers don’t dare to put decent systems in them at the cost of the game not being a hollow first person shooter/stabber pleb-pleaser with some halfassed story shit slapped on top.

 

[octavius]

I suspect the selfie generation doesn't like the idea of not seeing your character.

 

[Lim-Dûl]

I suspect the selfie generation doesn't like the idea of not seeing your character.

Even in third person you're looking at the character's ass most of the time.

 

[luj1]

first person RPGs other than blobbers dont exist

and Todd's trash should die

 

[luj1]

This one is easy. It's because kids want to see their character and their shiny new (DLC) armour. For a large part of them, computer (and especially console) games are about playing with a Barbie.

Morrowind is my favorite barbie game yet I still play it in first person

Mw is one of my fav games but its technically not an rpg

more of an adventure game with rpg elements

 

[Cryomancer]

. Ravenloft and Menzo have very mixed reputation.

This games are great. Very immersive, with interesting dungeons, good monsters to fight, side quests and so on.

first person RPGs other than blobbers dont exist

Yep. Fallout New Vegas, Deus Ex and Morrowind doesn't exist. BTW I"m playing EQ in FP and played DDO in FP too.

 

[luj1]

yeah but you dont know what an RPG is

adding character elements to shooters and racing games dont make them RPGs

 

[Cryomancer]

yeah but you dont know what an RPG is

adding character elements to shooters and racing games dont make them RPGs

So if Fallout New Vegas was EXACTLY the same but was isometric, he would be an RPG? IF i'm Playing Gothic 3 in first person, I'm not playing an RPG but if I switch to third person, it becomes an RPG?

 

[Butter]

yeah but you dont know what an RPG is

adding character elements to shooters and racing games dont make them RPGs

So if Fallout New Vegas was EXACTLY the same but was isometric, he would be an RPG? IF i'm Playing Gothic 3 in first person, I'm not playing an RPG but if I switch to third person, it becomes an RPG?

The litmus test is action combat vs turn-based combat.

 

[SumDrunkGuy]

I like to look at the arse.

 

[Cryomancer]

The litmus test is action combat vs turn-based combat.

Then Arcanum in TB is an RPG and Arcanum in RT is not? M&M VI in TB is and in RT isn't? PF:KM in TB is and in RtWP is not?

--------------

Every time that I can, I play in FP. But seems like for some guys if I"m playing M&B/VtMB in FP I"m not playing an RPG, I need to switch to TB to play an RPG....

 

[Comte_II]

yeah but you dont know what an RPG is

adding character elements to shooters and racing games dont make them RPGs

So if Fallout New Vegas was EXACTLY the same but was isometric, he would be an RPG? IF i'm Playing Gothic 3 in first person, I'm not playing an RPG but if I switch to third person, it becomes an RPG?

Fallout New Vegas is a console game not a RPG

 

[Glop_dweller]

So if Fallout New Vegas was EXACTLY the same but was isometric

It's unplayable that way; I've tried. It would have to also be point & click.

first person RPGs other than blobbers dont exist...

Arx Fatalis is a decent first person, single player RPG.

The litmus test is action combat vs turn-based combat.

TB is better for RPGs (of course), but it's not required, and is not a signature trait of RPGs.

 

[Wysardry]

When first person games (of any type) first started appearing, I vaguely remember some people complaining that they gave them motion sickness and they wouldn't play them.

Also, the camera is closer to everything, so more detailed models and textures are needed, which takes more time and effort.

As most game publishers these days want to minimise effort and maximise sales, first person RPGs are the new rocking horse manure.

 

[Lim-Dûl]

When first person games (of any type) first started appearing, I vaguely remember some people complaining that they gave them motion sickness and they wouldn't play them.

Also, the camera is closer to everything, so more detailed models and textures are needed, which takes more time and effort.

As most game publishers these days want to minimise effort and maximise sales, first person RPGs are the new rocking horse manure.

It'd be interesting to compare eye movement tendencies between people who get motion sickness and people who don't. I wonder if people who don't get motion sickness tend to focus on the center of the screen and those who get motion sickness tend to look around the screen while moving the camera.

 

[Morpheus Kitami]

Blobbers are completely playable on consoles or with a gamepad. The early Wizardry titles were all released on consoles, and the Japanese are still making games in that style. Western devs in the past 10 years have been obsessed with isometric perspective, at least in part because of IE nostalgia.

More or less this. Big western companies aren't going to rock the boat in any regard, which means if they do a first-person RPG, its because they always did first-person RPGs, or they're just adding RPG elements to their FPS titles, rarely in a manner that satisfies anyone. Why indie developers aren't doing more first-person games really depends on that particular developer, but there's nothing preventing them from doing these. There are quite a few titles in development, I know of Dread Delusion, Hand of Doom or something, and a few blobbers, outside of the ones previously mentioned. Of course for those developers who aren't using 3D models creating a first-person game can be very time-consuming, which might have something to do with it.

 

[Vic]

but you can play skyrim in first person

 

[Wysardry]

but you can play skyrim in first person

There might be ten different versions of Skyrim, but it's still just one game.

 

[Kev Inkline]

Many reasons, most of them mundane and in the immediate sense financially motivated, but overall I think it is an expected and natural consequence in the industry reflecting the evolution of human consciousness in microcosm; I'm referring to the qualitative mutations undergone in perspective and of our increasing awareness of space and time. To explain this well would be a difficult task on a forum post but I'd recommend reading Jean Gebser's The Ever-Present Origin, wherein he covers this phenomenon from both art history and metaphysical positions. A very basic outline of this work could be described as such: The evolution of human consciousness has developed so far across five psychosocial structures; approximately they are the archaic, magic, mythic, mental and (not finally, but ultimately, as far as we're presently concerned) the integral, and these structures arose and transformed concurrent to our developing conscious acuity in relation to time and space which occurred in three phases he called the unperspectival, the perspectival and on to the aperspectival.

The growing realization of spatial dimensions and of time can be traced across art history, observable in the two dimensional and disproportionate profile perspective of Egyptian, or Mayan, or Persian wall paintings and reliefs and for instance ancient Grecian pottery, to the development of portraiture and the Renaissance era shift to realized landscape foregrounds and backgrounds with intricate details depicted to scale, to the abstract art of the early modern period where unto visible and invisible space is added the presentation of time (most markedly as Gebser points out in a work of Picasso's which somehow portrays a woman from all three dimensions simultaneously). Each conscious mutation, he contends is not superior nor inferior to its former structures and includes all those preceding it while adapting. To my thinking it appears that the development of video games embody these same successive developmental structures, from the early instances of flat, 2D perspectives where time only moves vertically or horizontally forward or the pseudo first-person 3D wireframe games of the mid-seventies, onto extensions out into space by first and third person perspectives, the advent of real-time multiplayer interactivity, onto enhanced "3D" and now virtual reality. The greater impulse moving through the art world is towards the next structure, inclusive of all that came before but primarily oriented towards realizing the mutation. Virtual reality can even be thought of as undergoing its own very similar but more advanced developmental process, where in its early phases no other perspective can generally be conceived of than the first person or over-the-shoulder third person, unless a Picasso of the medium appears and completely alters our visionary possibilities. Like the several millennia of observable art history, we've had breakthroughs of perspective in video games only a handful of times, such as with Ultima Underworld. The few genuinely innovative artists alive and working in the industry today have been trying to achieve the next breakthrough, for instance Kojima and his "strand" games concept (one of the worst instances of self-celebrating I've ever seen, and I genuinely like some of his games), but as far as I'm aware nothing of the sort has happened yet. As we move closer to it, we will have more and more iterations of the same game (narrative-focused open-world amusement park styled sandboxes) as the majority become less inspired, less capable of innovation, less creative etc. The so-called CRPG "renaissance" is among the more grievous atrocities perpetuated under these abhorrent circumstances, thinking a simple reverting in perspective is a sufficient alternative and completely overlooking what made the classics what they are. First-person CRPGs are among the peak of the entirety of video games for me, but it was so much more than the perspective that made them so remarkable, such as the unique aesthetics where today everything has the same generic hyper-realistic style, where even the hand painted inventory icons and other features of the user interfaces look like parts of colored photographs.

Wysłane z mojego SM-A715F przy użyciu Tapatalka ??? Hopw roewur ne!

 

[Fowyr]

Wysłane z mojego SM-A715F przy użyciu Tapatalka ??? Hopw roewur ne!

Please don't bully our new eloquent Azrael the cat. I don't agree with him, but he is entertaining and interesting to read.

 

[Stoned Ape]

yeah but you dont know what an RPG is

adding character elements to shooters and racing games dont make them RPGs

So if Fallout New Vegas was EXACTLY the same but was isometric, he would be an RPG? IF i'm Playing Gothic 3 in first person, I'm not playing an RPG but if I switch to third person, it becomes an RPG?

The litmus test is action combat vs turn-based combat.

I always thought it was better defined by direct success via player reflexes vs success via character abilities which are appropriately chosen and triggered by the player, where the former is an action game (that may include RPG elements) and the latter is an actual RPG.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Why we are having so few RPGs in FP? My guess? Consoles + The fact that immersion is no longer valued by gamers and rpg developers.

There's 7-8 Blobbers being worked at right now.

Call of Saregnar, one Hybrid from Exiled Kingdoms dev, 2/3 M&M III like games (The Darkness Below, "Amberland 2", some other one?), one Wizardry 8 inspired one, one M&M 6 like one and The Quest 2 (the only RT one of the bunch) and the ones I forgot.

 

[Ladonna]

I remember Basilisk games, the devs that made the Eschalon games were working on a blobber after they finished their third game, but it dried up and vanished.

 

[anvi]

I think the lack of FOV in a lot of first person games is an issue. It can be a bit nauseating to feel like you are looking at the world through magnifying glasses or whatever. But when it's done right first person sure is nice. I'd love to know how EQ managed to be so immersive. It's not as easy to understand as I thought. Their sound design and tech is very simple and oldschool, and the graphics textures are usually blurry and oldschool. But somehow it really makes me feel like I'm there. Even the latest FPSs don't usually do that, even with photorealistic graphics and high tech. Stalker was good for immersion. Arma3 is great that you can see your own body and lean and crouch in many different ways, but even that doesn't really make me feel like I'm there. Maybe if graphics are too good it creates some uncanny valley without me noticing.