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Elder Scrolls Why Morrowind is a bad RPG

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
3,448
holy shit dude go kill some cliff racers or something, you should not be enganging in arguments if you get all emotional over it like a lil gay faggot
Weren't you supposed to be gone? What are you doing here still?
 

Vic

Educated
Joined
Oct 24, 2018
Messages
654
I was gonna let this rest but this shit is just too dumb to end it with an insult on my part. So let's take a look again at your last post:
So you were highlighting my quote incorrectly
How can I highlight a quote incorrectly? I quoted you word for word, I just highlighted the parts that showed the thread of my argument directed at the other poster.

twist the meaning behind my argument
The meaning of your argument, namely that you can enjoy morrowind without the dungeons by just exploring the overworld, is still intact. Look, it's even highlighted in red.

and use it as a strawman to push your agenda

I did not use your statement as an argument, but the other poster's statement that for him dungeon delving was a major part of morrowind (unlike for you), which was exactly my argument too! But he cut up my post that changed its meaning. I mean, likely he didn't even read everything to understand what I was talking about (like you), hence why I showed him the full discussion, highlighting the parts that would summarize it to not overwhelm him with too much text, and give context to the quote he used.

Your logic is flawed and fueled by emotion. You approach my arguments with an agenda without trying to understand my argument/my side. You just see red and start typing. Thus they lack in logical arguments and just read like fanboy rants. It is evident that you don't even read a large part of what I post, as you incorrectly assumed that the chain-quoted post that I highlighted was addressed to you. I would appreciate it if your next post would not contain any more false accusations against me, or better yet, stop quoting me.

Play the game how you want there's no wrong or right way to play, but there is a way to play the game how the developers intended and the intent behind the systems they put in place, on this we can only speculate thus neither my nor any other posters opinion is a fact, but it IS my opinion that the intent of the developers was to hook players in with random loot and it's a bad, unhealthy practice that has become ever more popular since morrowind was released. If you want to argue, argue this statement instead of being a cringe fanboy.

arguments against this I have seen so far is that you can just ignore it, but was the intent of the developers for what they put in the game to be ignored? I don't think so.
 
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Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
3,448
How can I highlight a quote incorrectly? I quoted you word for word, I just highlighted the parts that showed the thread of my argument directed at the other poster.
By... highlighting it incorrectly?

Because you were talking about the loot. I was talking about the world exploration (particularly, in opposition to dungeons) where the whole point was "what to do when you take away the loot?" (which was YOUR question, I have to remind you). It's just not compatible with what you were trying to do by highlighting the parts you highlighted.

The meaning of your argument, namely that you can enjoy morrowind without the dungeons by just exploring the overworld, is still intact. Look, it's even highlighted in red.
I shouldn't even be a part of this discussion. You both quoted me while all you wanted to do was react to each other. In addition, it turns into a mess of quotation-in-quotation-in-quotation that is just hard to read.

I mean, likely he didn't even read everything to understand what I was talking about (like you), hence why I showed him the full discussion, highlighting the parts that would summarize it to not overwhelm him with too much text, and give context to the quote he used.
An ironic thing to say, considering I am having to point out your highlighting error right now, despite you "showing the full discussion". And doubly so because I am likely to understand both your point and mine (although I strongly disagree with yours), which is why I am able to both provide counter-arguments as well as correcting you. But, hey, let's try to claim that I am "not even reading everything" despite literally quoting you, maybe nobody will notice! Or... is that exactly what you're doing this whole time...?
 

Vic

Educated
Joined
Oct 24, 2018
Messages
654
I was talking about the world exploration (particularly, in opposition to dungeons) where the whole point was "what to do when you take away the loot?" (which was YOUR question, I have to remind you).
Yes, yes, but the conversation had already moved on at that point, it's not bad game design if you just ignore it. Sure, whatever.
 

Vic

Educated
Joined
Oct 24, 2018
Messages
654
I already dealt with your retarded notion of "gambling loot"? I addresed the important (and somewhat fresh) aspect instead: by asking why should the game do away with loot when all RPGs have loot.
It's only fresh if you don't read what is posted. How do you fail to see the difference between the loot system in Elder Scrolls vs in Gothic, or STALKER, or Witcher or any open world action RPG (yes, yes stalker is not an rpg but it's not far off from the dumbed down console trash that is morrowind) that doesn't ABUSE their loot system to create a compulsion in the player for degenerate, time wasting and addictive behavior? Are you really that dumb or just simping?
 
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Harthwain

Magister
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Dec 13, 2019
Messages
3,448
Yes, yes, but the conversation had already moved on at that point, it's not bad game design if you just ignore it. Sure, whatever.
1) My post is literally the third post after yours, but somehow "the conversation had already moved on at that point"?

2) No idea what do you mean by "it's not bad game design if you just ignore it" when the whole point of your question was... exactly that - what to do in Morrowind if you take away the loot out of the equation.

It's only fresh if you don't read what is posted.
Apologies for not realizing that there is some time limit to answering posts on a discussion forum. Apparently 7 hours is considered necroposting now.

How do you fail to see the difference between the loot system in Elder Scrolls vs in Gothic?
Nice try. Except I wasn't discussing Gothic. I was discussing Morrowind. Your question was, literally, "take the loot away from morrowind and what do you have?".

Are you really that dumb or just simping?
At this point I don't even have to ask if you're retarded or not. It's just obvious.
 

Vic

Educated
Joined
Oct 24, 2018
Messages
654
I wasn't discussing Gothic. I was discussing Morrowind. Your question was, literally, "take the loot away from morrowind and what do you have?".
Come on man, it was a rhetorical question that I answered in the next sentence.

No idea what do you mean by "it's not bad game design if you just ignore it"
Are you are literally too fucking retarded to read more than 2 lines of text or what?

Play the game how you want there's no wrong or right way to play, but there is a way to play the game how the developers intended and the intent behind the systems they put in place, on this we can only speculate thus neither my nor any other posters opinion is a fact, but it IS my opinion that the intent of the developers was to hook players in with random loot and it's a bad, unhealthy practice that has become ever more popular since morrowind was released. If you want to argue, argue this statement instead of being a cringe fanboy.

arguments against this I have seen so far is that you can just ignore it, but was the intent of the developers for what they put in the game to be ignored? I don't think so.
 

LarryTyphoid

Scholar
Joined
Sep 16, 2021
Messages
1,203
How is Morrowind worse than Daggerfall in regards to loot? Daggerfall has random, level-scaled loot, while Morrowind's is hand-placed.
 

Vic

Educated
Joined
Oct 24, 2018
Messages
654
How is Morrowind worse than Daggerfall in regards to loot? Daggerfall has random, level-scaled loot, while Morrowind's is hand-placed.
The difference I think is in the gameplay loop. In Daggerfall you are more focused on exploring the dungeon, in Morrowind a lot of time is "wasted" looting containers, and closely looking at shelves, which imo doesn't add anything to the gameplay.

I hate D:OS for that reason too btw, too many barrels.
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
3,448
Come on man, it was a rhetorical question that I answered in the next sentence.
Is it really a rhetorical question if you answered it right away? And why can't I do the same? I see some double standards here. But that's not surprising, coming from you... Either make a rhetorical question or not. It is that simple.

Are you are literally too fucking retarded to read more than 2 lines of text or what?
:retarded:

Nice try 2. I am not THAT good to be able to read something that isn't there. You edited posts #528 and #531. In case of the first post the last three paragraph weren't even there (I posted one minute before you made the edit). In case of the latter you added everything that I didn't quote when I was writing my answers, so I was working with the original material.

Soooo... You said something about not making "any more false accusations"? I feel like you're projecting A LOT. Seriously, get a mirror.
 

Vic

Educated
Joined
Oct 24, 2018
Messages
654
Come on man, it was a rhetorical question that I answered in the next sentence.
Is it really a rhetorical question if you answered it right away? And why can't I do the same? I see some double standards here. But that's not surprising, coming from you... Either make a rhetorical question or not. It is that simple.

Are you are literally too fucking retarded to read more than 2 lines of text or what?
:retarded:

Nice try 2. I am not THAT good to be able to read something that isn't there. You edited posts #528 and #531. In case of the first post the last three paragraph weren't even there (I posted one minute before you made the edit). In case of the latter you added everything that I didn't quote when I was writing my answers, so I was working with the original material.

Soooo... You said something about not making "any more false accusations"? I feel like you're projecting A LOT. Seriously, get a mirror.
It's interesting how you keep avoiding my main argument and keep arguing with me on minor points. You and multiple other posters already said "You're playing it wrong", "The game was designed to be replayed multiple times" and "You can just ignore the loot". Yes, you said already that you can have fun in Morrowind by not doing dungeons, to which I said that even if you chose to ignore a large part of the game, it doesn't change the intent behind the application of the looting system. And yeah, I edited that post shortly before you posted, but I think you understand my main issue pretty well but just keep playing dumb and just keep arguing with me for the sake of arguing. The Gothic games have an interesting world to explore too and interesting quests. They could've put lootable containers and lootable items everywhere too but what would be the point except to force the player to check every barrel on the way? What do all these barrels add to D:OS? It's just something to engage dumb players and trigger their dopamine receptors with little drip fed rewards so they don't get bored on the mediocre story and boring quests. Ever tried doing an escort quest in Morrowind? Pathfinding is absolute trash, combat is trash, most players even ignore the main quest because it's trash and instead focus on exploration, which I did too, but if you would take all those lootable containers and handplaced loot scattered everywhere away, there would be very little reason to play, that was what I meant to say, because the rest of the game is just shit compared to other open world action RPGs of that era. Unless ofcourse you are a hardcore fanboy or were a little kid when it was released and could have fun by just slow walking from town to town, enjoy the music and look at giant mushrooms. Basically play it as a walking simulator and ignore the malpractice of the dopamine hamsterwheel that is the looting system that serves as a bandaid over the rest of the broken systems.
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
3,448
It's interesting how you keep avoiding my main argument and keep arguing with me on minor points. [...] it doesn't change the intent behind the application of the looting system.
Avoiding? I addressed that point in the beginning, and more than once. You prove, again, that you lack reading comprehension.

The Gothic games have an interesting world to explore too and interesting quests. They could've put lootable containers and lootable items everywhere too but what would be the point except to force the player to check every barrel on the way?
Gothic is much more limited in terms of character customization and equipment that Morrowind. And by equipment I don't mean loot with stats - I mean unenhanced stuff. So what kind of loot you want Gothic to put in there? Also, Morrowind has way bigger map than Gothic. As a result Morrowind's world is bigger, so it has more places filled with loot. And by that I mean even the basic things, such as forks and cups that you can steal and sell to a trader, not just dungeons. If Morrowind is a sandbox, then Gothic is a simulation (to a degree). You can see this easily by how well NPCs reacts to what you're doing.

What do all these barrels add to D:OS? It's just something to engage dumb players and trigger their dopamine receptors with little drip fed rewards so they don't get bored on the mediocre story and boring quests.
Ever heard of anachronism? You whole argument is flawed, because it is based on a premise that Morrowind was made with a specific design in mind. You're literally the first person I've seen claiming something like this, and I think this is probably because you're new to Morrowind and you're projecting your impression of the modern design (such as the aforementioned DO:S) onto a game that didn't have such approach.

if you would take all those lootable containers and handplaced loot scattered everywhere away, there would be very little reason to play, that was what I meant to say, because the rest of the game is just shit compared to other open world action RPGs of that era. Unless ofcourse you are a hardcore fanboy or were a little kid when it was released and could have fun by just slow walking from town to town, enjoy the music and look at giant mushrooms. Basically play it as a walking simulator and ignore the malpractice of the dopamine hamsterwheel that is the looting system that serves as a bandaid over the rest of the broken systems.
You only prove you're incapable of thinking past yourself.

Yes, if YOU play only for loot then YOU will have no reason to play, if loot isn't there. But I - and the others - already said there are other reasons why Morrowind kept engaging them. But I guess this is incomprehensible for a retard like you. Or you can't officially accept that, because this brings down your whole house of card, built on the premise of "it is all about the random loot and you gotta catch 'em all!".
 

Vic

Educated
Joined
Oct 24, 2018
Messages
654
You whole argument is flawed, because it is based on a premise that Morrowind was made with a specific design in mind.
It's not just a premise but my main criticism. So, if the looting system in Morrowind is not an application of skinner's box to create addictive behavior in the player, what's the point of having all the barrels and chests filled with loot? Is opening containers for that shiny interesting gameplay? Or are you implying that they just made shit up and had no intention whatsoever behind the shit they put in the game? You do know it's a game, right? A commercial product primarily designed for the xbox because they got Microsoft's backing on it. You don't just accidentally make shit up.
 

Vic

Educated
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Oct 24, 2018
Messages
654
Yes, if YOU play only for loot then YOU will have no reason to play, if loot isn't there. But I - and the others - already said there are other reasons why Morrowind kept engaging them. But I guess this is incomprehensible for a retard like you. Or you can't officially accept that, because this brings down your whole house of card, built on the premise of "it is all about the random loot and you gotta catch 'em all!".
That's what YOU say that you play the game without wasting a good chunk of time looting random trash, I bet if I was to look up any Morrowind Let's Play on Youtube it would become apparent how much time is wasted looting meaningless shit in this game. You're just being delusional and don't recognize that you're being manipulated just like all those kids hooked on their casino simulators in their mobile phones and all those retards playing MMOs.
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
3,448
It's not just a premise but my main criticism.
Which says something, doesn't it?

So, if the looting system in Morrowind is not an application of skinner's box to create addictive behavior in the player, what's the point of having all the barrels and chests filled with loot? Is opening containers for that shiny interesting gameplay? Or are you implying that they just made shit up and had no intention whatsoever behind the shit they put in the game?
In Morrowind? To make a place appear natural. This is why you have cups and forks in houses. This is why there are weapons laying next to bodies or robbers/adventurers in some dungeons (implying the were using them). Morrowind attempted locations to look and feel natural, so it makes sense there will be objects "filled with loot" in them (with the Skooma Dens having... skooma).

And, correct me if I am wrong, but having loot is a standard practice for ANY RPG. So I don't see why Morrowind should be shy of putting its loot in places, especially when it makes sense.
 

Harthwain

Magister
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Dec 13, 2019
Messages
3,448
That's what YOU say that you play the game without wasting a good chunk of time looting random trash, I bet if I was to look up any Morrowind Let's Play on Youtube it would become apparent how much time is wasted looting meaningless shit in this game.
I mean, you're wasting time playing ANY game. Or typing useless shit on this forum.

You're just being delusional and don't recognize that you're being manipulated just like all those kids hooked on their casino simulators in their mobile phones and all those retards playing MMOs.
OR

You're just a retard who is incapable of thinking the world can be a bit different than he thinks it is. Maybe you're one of those mentally ill people, who see conspiracies in everything, even the most mundane things. And if someone is "being manipulated" like "kids hooked on their casino simulators in their mobile phones" it's more likely you than me, since it's you who is constantly whinning about gambling, skinner boxes' and having to go into every dungeon to grab every last piece of loot, not I.

Like I said before - sounds like you're projecting a lot.
 

Butter

Arcane
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
5,479
how have you guys been arguing for pages over the same exact thing?
rpgcodex.png
 

Vic

Educated
Joined
Oct 24, 2018
Messages
654
That's what YOU say that you play the game without wasting a good chunk of time looting random trash, I bet if I was to look up any Morrowind Let's Play on Youtube it would become apparent how much time is wasted looting meaningless shit in this game.
I mean, you're wasting time playing ANY game. Or typing useless shit on this forum.

You're just being delusional and don't recognize that you're being manipulated just like all those kids hooked on their casino simulators in their mobile phones and all those retards playing MMOs.
OR

You're just a retard who is incapable of thinking the world can be a bit different than he thinks it is. Maybe you're one of those mentally ill people, who see conspiracies in everything, even the most mundane things. And if someone is "being manipulated" like "kids hooked on their casino simulators in their mobile phones" it's more likely you than me, since it's you who is constantly whinning about gambling, skinner boxes' and having to go into every dungeon to grab every last piece of loot, not I.

Like I said before - sounds like you're projecting a lot.
Ok fine, let's just say that for people like you this is interesting gameplay:



Please continue to enjoy your enganging and challenging gameplay in Morrowind.
 
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luj1

You're all shills
Vatnik
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So, if the looting system in Morrowind is not an application of skinner's box to create addictive behavior in the player, what's the point of having all the barrels and chests filled with loot?

This has to be one of the most retarded arguments I ever heard about Morrowind
 

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