Elder Scrolls Why Morrowind is a bad RPG

[Kalon]

Elder scrolls were always for murican trannies.

What are you talking about

 

[NecroLord]

Good old Morrowind.

 

[visions]

I’ve just finished Tribunal for the first time and I’m going through Bloodmoon now. Reading some posts people have made here in the past make me feel like I’m taking crazy pills. Like, all these complaints about the long tedious dungeon crawling in Tribunal and insane HP bloated enemies. It’s a skill issue. These are meant to be done by endgame level characters, you should already have insanely good stats/equipment/spells enchantments by the time you start these. Obviously if you attempt it at lower levels you’re gonna have a bad time. With a level 40 character and Sunder as my main weapon most of the enemies go down in a few clicks. Once I acquired the Mace of Aevar Stone-Singer werewolves literally died in two hits.

From a content standpoint it’s true that the base game is a far superior experience, but Tribunal and Bloodmoon aren’t total trash. I would rather go through the Mournhold sewers fighting goblin hordes than ever touch Oblivion again, that’s for sure.

First time I completed Morrowind, I played through Tribunal before completing the main quest. I think I started the Tribunal content in late teen levels and completed it in mid 20's. Naturally it trivialized the main quest after that but I didn't feel too underlevelled for the Tribunal content and it was pretty fun. I liked exploring the ruins under Mournhold around that level range, felt fittingly foreboding and dangerous. I got stuck somewhere in Bloodmoon back then though and didn't complete that.

Second time I played through Morrowind a few years ago, I don't remember what level I was when I did Tribunal but I was level 28 when I completed Bloodmoon. The werewolves were a pain but I had Marksmanship 100 and killed them with Dwarven darts from the Dwemer ruins under Mournhould. They could kill me in a few hits though, so I had to run backwards and thow darts at them, kinda like playing an FPS. Running backwards in that labyrinth was kinda tricky though and pretty soon I'd hit a wall, so I had to kill the werewolves before that. I felt that tackling the werewolf maze around that level overall had a fitting difficulty for the finale of the game. Not trivial, occasionally infuriating but ultimately beatable. The final boss was a joke with my playstyle though, cause the final fight took place in a spacious cave so I could run circles around the boss (regardless of which aspect of him I fought) while pelting him with Dwarven darts.

Overall I felt Bloodmoon was kinda weak on content and story but Tribunal was cool. Also I liked the atmosphere of crawling through forgotten ruins and tombs under Mournhold, especially the first time around when I was younger and the graphics were fresher.

 

[Hag]

Also I liked the atmosphere of crawling through forgotten ruins and tombs under Mournhold, especially the first time around when I was younger and the graphics were fresher.

The daedric complex under Mournhold is a really nice place. The vertical place full of hidden item is somehow very comfy.

 

[Harthwain]

I enjoyed Bloodmoon over Tribunal, because I liked the Nordic atmosphere, the snow and the open world map that felt like part of Morrowind. Tribunal was OK overall, but I didn't like the complete lack of the open world that was one of the strongest points of Morrowind.

 

[NecroLord]

Also I liked the atmosphere of crawling through forgotten ruins and tombs under Mournhold, especially the first time around when I was younger and the graphics were fresher.

The daedric complex under Mournhold is a really nice place. The vertical place full of hidden item is somehow very comfy.

Only place in the game where you can find a Daedric cuirass.
The other cuirass you can find is the one worn by Divayth Fyr, and you can't really acquire it through normal means.

 

[dreughjiggers]

Although sewers are boring, exploring Old Mournhold wasn't so bad. I liked that I could tell how deep I'd descended by the style of ruins I was in. Only instead of all dungeon, I'd like to have seen the old districts populated by the underclasses and lesser nobles.

Bloodmoon is shit, my favorite Bloodmoon overhaul is Solstheim Eraser. If only they'd spent that effort on Clockwork City.

 

[Kalon]

Only place in the game where you can find a Daedric cuirass.
The other cuirass you can find is the one worn by Divayth Fyr

If you're Telvanni and you do a certain quest for Therana you'll get a daedric cuirass enchanted with CE feather.

my favorite Bloodmoon overhaul is Solstheim Eraser

All it needs is a scattering of creatures mobs that actually makes sense (serisouly who was it who randomly put boars in a snow desert) , a reworking of some of the enemies scaling, more varied and interesting nord barrows, and less OP loot. The MQ can be simply ignored.

 

[dreughjiggers]

All it needs is a scattering of creatures mobs that actually makes sense (serisouly who was it who randomly put boars in a snow desert) , a reworking of some of the enemies scaling, more varied and interesting nord barrows, and less OP loot. The MQ can be simply ignored.

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/45714

The MQ can't be ignored, if you want dungeon variety, because all the unique dungeons are gated by the MQ. Bloodmoon Rebalanced fixes all the level and loot issues, while Tomb of the Snow Prince handles location and enemies. I'd rather nuke it.

 

[baba is you]

I don't think Morrowind is a bad RPG, I've played Daggerfall, but I liked exploring Morrowind better.

Daggerfall has better dungeon design, but we can't judge a game by its dungeon design unless it's a game like Wizardry

 

[Artyoan]

Its one of the greatest games ever made despite having some of the most broken systems put in an rpg. Mood setting music, god tier tone, one of the most memorable starting locations in gaming history, and an open world that keeps stroking off the imagination far longer than most do. Combine an interesting open world with unique ways to progressively traverse it and you get a winner. MM6 does something very similar with flight/beacons and letting the player gradually map it all out.

 

[Kalon]

The MQ can't be ignored, if you want dungeon variety

None of the MQ dungeons strike me as memorable, at least not in a good way. Especially not the cave of farting rocks.

Daggerfall has better dungeon design

I'm sure this has been discussed a thousand times already, but I'm not sure that giant randomly generated dungeons are superior to samller but hand-made dungeons. I guess it's partly a matter of world-design vs. level-design, i.e. realism v.s. actual gameplay. But then I agree that more than a few Morrowind dungeons are way too small from a pure video-game point of view.

 

[NecroLord]

I'm sure this has been discussed a thousand times already, but I'm not sure that giant randomly generated dungeons are superior to samller but hand-made dungeons. I guess it's partly a matter of world-design vs. level-design, i.e. realism v.s. actual gameplay. But then I agree that more than a few Morrowind dungeons are way too small from a pure video-game point of view.

It's the dungeon crawling origins of Elder Scrolls.
Really, Daggerfall had gargantuan dungeons. As big (if not more) than cities like Daggerfall, Wayrest or Sentinel.
You know the game doesn't fuck around when its dungeons can be the size of capital cities.

 

[Kalon]

when its dungeons can be the size of capital cities

which doesn't make sense, or at leat doesn't seem plausible, in terms of worldbuilding, save for a few locations ( I'm saying that in general, not as applied specifically to Daggerfall which I haven't played ).

 

[ferratilis]

Don't worry bros, AI will fix everything.

 

[monilloman]

it does read like the average /r/gaming post, is reddit AI powered?

 

[thesheeep]

Don't worry bros, AI will fix everything.

Honestly, it's not wrong.
2, 3 and 4 are obvious improvements.

1 is true even if you like the RPG-style combat system of Daggerfall & Morrowind over Oblivion+ action combat system.
And I do!
But Morrowind combat suffers from a pretty severe lack of feedback in both graphics and text.

5 is a matter of interpretation.
For example, just offering a better UI for the quest management would already be "streamlining".
Doesn't mean you have add quest compass and magical GPS

 

[octavius]

I had to laugh at "Adding more voice acting would bring the characters and world to life". Like voice acting could make the NPCs have schedules.

 

[Kalon]

it does read like the average /r/gaming post, is reddit AI powered?

Something about the overall tone makes me think of Quora.

I had to laugh at "Adding more voice acting would bring the characters and world to life". Like voice acting could make the NPCs have schedules.

Like NPCs having schedules could be enough to bring the world to life.

Anyway,

1. I don't know how much more intuitive a combat system which is basically "point at the thing and click", can be. It doesn't require more than 2 brain cells to figure out that a 40 points combat skill gives you a better chance to hit than a 15 points one if you just stop 5 seconds to look at your stats and pay attention to them. I never had issues with the combat system, and that was with zero experience of classic D&D games or hardly any game for what matters.

2. It is in fact greatly intuitive and easy to navigate. Everything is displayed at once with a single key stroke. But hen I remember a guy on Reddit who couldn't find Moon Sugar in his inventory and raging about it, all the while posting a screenshot of said inventory where the Moon Sugar icon was clearly visible.

3. I'm tired of people using IMMERSHUN on every occasion. Graphics make a game visually appealing or not, fair enough and that's subjective. It does little to immersion.

4. May terrible things happen to the person who wrote this, and his loved ones, if any.

5. I don't know what "streamlining quests" would imply. Probably not good things.

 

[dreughjiggers]

The MQ can't be ignored, if you want dungeon variety

None of the MQ dungeons strike me as memorable, at least not in a good way. Especially not the cave of farting rocks.

You said you wanted variety, and I never said anything about memorable. Only two nord dungeons stand out to me, and guess what? They're both on Vvardenfell: Ermagerd's nord tomb and Forge of Billabong.

Don't worry bros, AI will fix everything.

NPC schedules would bring the world to life, its done so in every game they're present. The other thing that would breathe life into the world is a combat overhaul. I'm talking a lock, behaviors (ashlanders sneak and poison, Telvanni mark and recall, cliffracers dive and evade, kwama tunnel beneath you, ascended sleepers debuff and scramble player controls, etc), animations telegraph what the dice are doing, and (optional) gibbets!

The graphics, UI, and quest journal are sufficiently repaired by openmw. The quests don't need any touching up, and I never had a problem with the journal. The restored npc lines and that quest voices mod have been undeniably good for immershun. Graphically, Morrowind is superb. All the models have character, they just patched and atlased.

 

[Kalon]

You said you wanted variety, and I never said anything about memorable. Only two nord dungeons stand out to me, and guess what? They're both on Vvardenfell: Ermagerd's nord tomb and Forge of Billabong.

Fair enough. The truth is, I'd rather keep my boring dungeons than having to go through BM's MQ again, ever.

BTW you forgot that there's a third nord dungeon on Vvardenfell...

 

[MWaser]

Improve the Morrowind UI? For what? Consoles?
Morrowind already has one of the best PC games UI I've ever seen

 

[NecroLord]

Improve the Morrowind UI? For what? Consoles?
Morrowind already has one of the best PC games UI I've ever seen

Yeah, dragging those windows to whatever size you want is pretty good.

 

[Seethe]

Don't worry bros, AI will fix everything.

"AI" is merely homogenizing the most common thoughts of your average modern gamer with shit opinions, and doesn't even explain how it should be done. It couldn't even say outright that Morrowind needs quest markers or something. It only gives ambiguous platitudes as solutions. It sounds like me writing a bullshit resume in the 5'th grade. "Morrowind could be improved by....improving things!". lol....

 

[NecroLord]

Don't worry bros, AI will fix everything.

"AI" is merely homogenizing the most common thoughts of your average modern gamer with shit opinions, and doesn't even explain how it should be done. It couldn't even say outright that Morrowind needs quest markers or something. It only gives ambiguous platitudes as solutions. It sounds like me writing a bullshit resume in the 5'th grade. "Morrowind could be improved by....improving things!". lol....

Even so, the AI still somehow manages to appear less pretentious than the average modern gamer or game journalist.