Pathfinder Why Owlcat's Kingmaker Sucks, in Plain Language

[Tigranes]

Kingmaker's writing is very good. It is uneven at times, but still very good.

The narrative is mind blowingly interesting in how it achieves its goals. I am not saying that it does not have flaws or parts that it falls short (or parts that I still do not understand). However, the way all content in this fucking huge game fits under only a few intertwined themes is a sight to behold. I have never seen anything like this in another game of this length before. It is a quality in story telling and theme exploration that goes beyond gaming.

Some of you are not worthy. Tigranes gets a free pass, because he has not seen the full picture yet (let alone start identifying the connections between the various stories in the game).

Stronk claims. I'll finish the game and see what I think.

So far, I do suspect a lot of Codex goodwill to Kingmaker hinges on how conservative/traditional it is. It's back to a good old fantasy adventure in an uncomplicatedly familiar setting, no pseudo philosophical mumbo jumbo or mixing period inspirations. It relies on many tried and true formulas to achieve that cohesiveness. It's all ready made to support any typical D&D / fantasy / etc party playstyle. Which, by the way, is a perfectly fine thing to do. No need to try and become a Torment and then end up a Numenera. But this kind of praise implies that Kingmaker refines and improves those old goodies to a new level. I haven't seen that yet. We'll see how it goes as I keep playing.

Time limit doesn't bother me hugely so far because I never expected it to be a very open game. The map is really a lot of disconnected tiny zones with one or two points of interest (even more than Deadfire!) and the way the clock ticks on artisans, main quests, etc., I understood to provide a fairly linear experience. But I certainly think there was no good reason to make the time limits and chapter thresholds so obscure.

 

[Razzoriel]

So far, I do suspect a lot of Codex goodwill to Kingmaker hinges on how conservative/traditional it is.

Can you cite at least three or four instances of it being conservative/traditional? I've taken a look at the synopsis and the whole plot; couldn't find any.

 

[smaug]

Imagine thinking Poncefinder: Cuckmaker is equal to or greater than the greatest D&D RPG ever made, Baldur's Gate.

I was told in life:

“Smaug, if you have nothing useful to say, don’t say anything at all.”

-motherfucker

 

[user]

Also, is there a time limit? I have not played the game and to be honest, the time limit puts me off.

As someone who hates time limits in these games and wants to take his time to explore/find everything, they didn't stress me at all. They are very generous and unless you try to overdo it in the kingdom management with rank-ups and pay attention to what npcs tell you, you won't have any problems.

So far, I do suspect a lot of Codex goodwill to Kingmaker hinges on how conservative/traditional it is. It's back to a good old fantasy adventure in an uncomplicatedly familiar setting, no pseudo philosophical mumbo jumbo or mixing period inspirations. It relies on many tried and true formulas to achieve that cohesiveness. It's all ready made to support any typical D&D / fantasy / etc party playstyle.

Traditional or not, any setting that is well executed has the potential to be great. Personally, I mostly appreciate it for the amount of RP opportunities given to the player, like checks etc.
And for those who say that "the alignment options sometimes don't make sense" - the fact that it even has that many with actual C&C attached, is something to behold, for a medium+ production scale game in this day and age.

 

[Tigranes]

So far, I do suspect a lot of Codex goodwill to Kingmaker hinges on how conservative/traditional it is.

Can you cite at least three or four instances of it being conservative/traditional? I've taken a look at the synopsis and the whole plot; couldn't find any.

I described it in my post. Mechanics / design wise. Not, I don't know, the Republican Party. And again, that's not inherently positive or negative - in this case, it was largely executed well, and they were quite ambitious in other areas such as kingdom management.

 

[Trashos]

Well, they do add several new things to the traditional mix. Kingdom Management, City Building (part of kingdom management, but a thing of its own too), timers, Chapter 6, resting management etc-etc. Whether these new things have been well received is another matter, but it is not like they played it safe. The game has a strong personality.

Indeed, it does also include tried and true recipes. I am not disputing that.

 

[Razzoriel]

So far, I do suspect a lot of Codex goodwill to Kingmaker hinges on how conservative/traditional it is.

Can you cite at least three or four instances of it being conservative/traditional? I've taken a look at the synopsis and the whole plot; couldn't find any.

I described it in my post. Mechanics / design wise. Not, I don't know, the Republican Party. And again, that's not inherently positive or negative - in this case, it was largely executed well, and they were quite ambitious in other areas such as kingdom management.

Yeah, not to be too political there, but the Republican Party is hardly conservative at all. I just couldn't find anything that would get in the usual people that like to complain on their nerves.

 

[Shadenuat]

So far, I do suspect a lot of Codex goodwill to Kingmaker hinges on how conservative/traditional it is

nah it's just first single player game in years with really powerful 3.5 character building.

there are other things like difficulty, time management, but character building makes or breaks rpgs. people re-start PK 200 times never reaching Chapter 2 because they just try out different classes. ~meme.

writing and story are serviceable.

game is slightly better than sum of its parts but imo it's charbuilding which makes it

 

[rusty_shackleford]

House at the edge of time is one of the worst dungeons I've ever experienced in any RPG, ever.
The fact that the game gets a complete pass on this most of the time leads me to believe many people simply never made it to the dungeon.

 

[Trashos]

I made it there multiple times and I loved it. One of the highpoints of the game, pure greatness.

 

[RK47]

Nah.

 

[The_Mask]

Imagine thinking Poncefinder: Cuckmaker is equal to or greater than the greatest D&D RPG ever made, Baldur's Gate.

You're so fucking stupid, it's not even funny anymore.

 

[Yosharian]

So far, I do suspect a lot of Codex goodwill to Kingmaker hinges on how conservative/traditional it is

nah it's just first single player game in years with really powerful 3.5 character building.

there are other things like difficulty, time management, but character building makes or breaks rpgs. people re-start PK 200 times never reaching Chapter 2 because they just try out different classes. ~meme.

writing and story are serviceable.

/thread

 

[skaraher]

Kingmaker is like the Dark Souls of Infinity Engine. Scrubs should just git gud and stop complaining.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

All I'm seeing here is a bunch of idiots too stupid to comprehend the system. I guess that's what a diet of Elder Turds and Nu-Biofail games does to people. Everything needs to be aimed at the lowest common denominator.
If you encounter something, no matter what, which you can't immediately defeat without preparation it's "bad design".
On Challenging and below this game is so easy, 99% of the time you literally don't have to do anything but cast a couple long duration buffs + select all & left-click. Throw in haste for more difficult fights. This game has nothing on old RPGs difficulty wise. (unless you play on unfair)
If you can't handle the difficulty on Normal or even story mode, sorry to be so frank, but yes, that means you're a confirmed retard.

I don't know what's dumber, the idiots failing at combat or those that "can't figure out what to do." If you don't know what to do half the time, the reason is that you can't read the quest log and dialogues or are unable to comprehend what you've read -functional illiteracy, as is befitting for a confirmed retard.
To paraphrase Cleve, the reason why you're baffled all the time is, that you're baffled all the time. Lights are on, nobody's really home.
There is no timer that isn't telegraphed and doesn't give you plenty of time to react, often several months. If you would "hurry" you most likely wouldn't even notice the game has timers. It's pretty much impossible to fail them unless "hurry" means "ignore them for months and ignore all the warnings too until it's too late". Clearly those Russians assumed a certain minimum intelligence and attention span that a surprisingly large segment of the western market seems to lack by now.

sjw cast of companions some of which so annoying you don't even want to read their dialogues (fortunately you don't have to) , uncounted bugs, horrendous performance, babbies first UI, reused areas with nothing but another piece of loot + a bunch of mobs to kill are all legit criticism.
That fact that the game allows you to fail - allows you, not forces you - really isn't. This is what it all boils down to. The common mouthbreather doesn't want to be reminded that if you're dumb as fuck, you might just fail. You can fail at combat if you're unable to build even semi-competent characters and you can fail at the main quests if you ignore them.

 

[Gibson]

Kingmaker is like the Dark Souls of Infinity Engine. Scrubs should just git gud and stop complaining.

On Challenging and below this game is so easy, 99% of the time you literally don't have to do anything but cast a couple long duration buffs + select all & left-click. Throw in haste for more difficult fights. This game has nothing on old RPGs difficulty wise. (unless you play on unfair)
If you can't handle the difficulty on Normal or even story mode, sorry to be so frank, but yes, that means you're a confirmed retard.

which one of you two is a bullshiter?

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Kingmaker is not a perfect game, it just does what other games failed to do - it actually feels like "old" iso crpgs plus scores pretty high on the three most important crpg factors - char/party building, combat and looting.

If you liked BG2 you should love this game. Unless you're one of those weirdos who like BG because they think Minsc is funny or install Imoen romance modes then I dunno.

 

[Haplo]

It's actually head and shoulders above BG in character building and combat. Well except spell variety/potency I suppose.

Personally I enjoy it way more then BG.

 

[Theldaran]

C'mon Owlcat, show those Larian suckers.

It would be hilarious to have Larian become the next Obsidian with a potentially failing BG3, and Owlcat the pretenders steal the (nuclear?) throne with the next Pathfinder. Easy come, easy go Sven!

 

[rusty_shackleford]

C'mon Owlcat, show those Larian suckers.

It would be hilarious to have Larian become the next Obsidian with a potentially failing BG3, and Owlcat the pretenders steal the (nuclear?) throne with the next Pathfinder. Easy come, easy go Sven!

Owlcat is closer to the next Obsidian considering they released an unfinished game that was unable to be completed.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Yeah, the fecked up big time by overscoping and releasing the game in a horrid state. Still, the biggest problem was the fact that the release date came only when other games ensured that most people did not treat the iso crpg revival seriously and many were openly hostile towards it.

 

[Van-d-all]

C'mon Owlcat, show those Larian suckers.

It would be hilarious to have Larian become the next Obsidian with a potentially failing BG3, and Owlcat the pretenders steal the (nuclear?) throne with the next Pathfinder. Easy come, easy go Sven!

Owlcat is closer to the next Obsidian considering they released an unfinished game that was unable to be completed.

You mean Stygian? Also, "impossible".

 

[Daidre]

Varnhold DLC was almost completely bug-free and Endless Dungeon is more-or-less ok in this department (Shops still do not update when they should ).

Wrath also do not seem as huge in the scope as P:K, engine is reused, so I have a flimsy hope that early experience would not be so... traumatic.

 

[vortex]

Varnhold DLC was almost completely bug-free and Endless Dungeon is more-or-less ok in this department (Shops still do not update when they should ).

Wrath also do not seem as huge in the scope as P:K, engine is reused, so I have a flimsy hope that early experience would not be so... traumatic.

Oh my. They'll reuse engine? Why? Can't they choose better one?

 

[Daidre]

Oh my. They'll reuse engine? Why? Can't they choose better one?

Because doing all the coding work required again from the scratch is so crazy it is financial suicide?