Pathfinder Why Owlcat's Kingmaker Sucks, in Plain Language

[Ol' Willy]

Yeah because DND was produced as part of some Quinquennial Plan or other.

All Soviet people and their descendants are naturally adept at the game.

It's just that Russians, and all Slavic people, I suppose, are gifted with "смекалка", making comprehending things like this easier.

 

[gurugeorge]

No.

There is a choice of going after Tartuccio or the Bandits, but no timer.

Weird. Was under the impression that you had to act fast on that. If I had known that I would have done that druid's berry quest to see if he gave me some useful stuff first. Still not sure why Tartuccio getting mixed up with some kobolds requires dealing with spiders, though - before I reached the mineshaft part of that chase I figured I'd just be dealing with Kobolds and some traps (which my Rogue skills would have worked pretty well for).

What you might be thinking of is if you don't go after Tartuccio fairly quickly (ancient tomb or whatever it is), then you miss the chance to get back one of two former members of your prologue party who decided to go with Tartuccio.

If you go to the ancient tomb later, you get the same info to progress the plot (and the same possibility of a storybook lead to catching tartuccio out with some kobolds and getting some more info quicker) but only the mercenaries will be there to fight.

I forget what the limit is - something like a couple of days. Basically they give you some leeway but you have to get there fast to get an extra party member on board.

 

[gurugeorge]

Everything is more meaningful at lower level.
Even the amount of gold you can raise from selling away the +1 weapon for your first full plate armor.
Cherish the low level plays more.
This game is boring at higher level.

I tend to agree with that with these games. The beginning is where you're taking in new info, getting immersed, etc., and every little thing (like your cantrips) feels precious. In some ways that first few hours on the first like 3 levels is the best part of the game, the part where it feels most "realistic."

Of course the compensation is that you get more toys as you level. And that's great, but I still think most of these games progress you a tad too quickly at the early levels, as a rule. I suppose that's for what they think is players who want instant gratification. But I prefer it a bit more stretched out.

And in fact the early sequence in PFK is pretty good for that, you don't get to level 2 until Oleg's, and you've already had a pretty epic time of it up to that point. Getting 3 and 4 feel nicely timed too, then things accelerate for a bit, then around 12 or so start slowing down again. (It feels like, anyway.)

 

[Desmodus Rotundus]

So you played a wizard who could not CC spiders?
OK, I guess...

Well I could have CC'd spiders if at character creation someone had told me, "btw unlike any other D&D game you'll ever play, in this lvl2 spiders are immune to mind affecting"(was in spiders desctiption box after successful lore roll). Which btw includes sleep in case you're unaware. My lvl2 sorc only had 2-3 lvl1 spells and all the cc was mind affecting

 

[NJClaw]

So you played a wizard who could not CC spiders?
OK, I guess...

Well I could have CC'd spiders if at character creation someone had told me, btw unlike any other D&D game you'll ever play, in this lvl2 spiders are immune to mind affecting(was in spiders desctiption box after successful lore roll). Which btw includes sleep in case you're unaware.

Spiders are of the vermin type, and vermin have always been immune to mind-affecting effects in 3.x.

 

[Desmodus Rotundus]

So you played a wizard who could not CC spiders?
OK, I guess...

Well I could have CC'd spiders if at character creation someone had told me, btw unlike any other D&D game you'll ever play, in this lvl2 spiders are immune to mind affecting(was in spiders desctiption box after successful lore roll). Which btw includes sleep in case you're unaware.

Spiders are of the vermin type, and vermin have always been immune to mind-affecting effects in 3.x.

Well fuck me with a ten foot pole then. Guess it just never gets implemented in other PC games, since I never did any actual tabletop, I had no knowledge of this.

 

[NJClaw]

fuck me with a ten foot pole

 

[Delterius]

fuck me with a ten foot pole

now thats what i call crowd control

 

[bec de corbin]

So you played a wizard who could not CC spiders?
OK, I guess...

Well I could have CC'd spiders if at character creation someone had told me, btw unlike any other D&D game you'll ever play, in this lvl2 spiders are immune to mind affecting(was in spiders desctiption box after successful lore roll). Which btw includes sleep in case you're unaware.

Spiders are of the vermin type, and vermin have always been immune to mind-affecting effects in 3.x.

Well fuck me with a ten foot pole then. Guess it just never gets implemented in other PC games, since I never did any actual tabletop, I had no knowledge of this.

Don't worry, lots of things in PFK work differently from tabletop in ways that are also never explained, so if you'd played Pathfinder you'd also be up shit creek

 

[LannTheStupid]

My lvl2 sorc only had 2-3 lvl1 spells and all the cc was mind affecting

Building broken characters, realizing why they're broken, fixing it and trying again - this is what I call "the learning process". Mr. Desiderius loves it; some other gentlemen and comrades love it as well; apparently, you don't.

It happens.

 

[Delterius]

"the learning process"

i wish that was why i rerolled constantly and never went much farther than vordakai

truth is i have terminal restartitis

pls spread awareness

 

[Desiderius]

I forget what the limit is - something like a couple of days. Basically they give you some leeway but you have to get there fast to get an extra party member on board.

If you don't know what you're talking about, pls do not post your ignorance.

There is no time limit. It is a simple either/or. You have to choose between Ancient Tomb and Thorn River. If you do to one, the scene at the other progresses.

 

[Desiderius]

"the learning process"

i wish that was why i rerolled constantly and never went much farther than vordakai

truth is i have terminal restartitis

pls spread awareness

This IS the game for you.

 

[Desiderius]

So you played a wizard who could not CC spiders?
OK, I guess...

Well I could have CC'd spiders if at character creation someone had told me, "btw unlike any other D&D game you'll ever play, in this lvl2 spiders are immune to mind affecting"(was in spiders desctiption box after successful lore roll). Which btw includes sleep in case you're unaware. My lvl2 sorc only had 2-3 lvl1 spells and all the cc was mind affecting

No, a decent player will already know to pick different spells to target different saves. If you have a limited number of spells why choose the ones which all do the same thing?

You're an exceptionally lousy Sorc as this point. On the other hand you have a lot of improvement to look forward to.

 

[LannTheStupid]

i wish that was why i rerolled constantly and never went much farther than vordakai

You're just enjoying playing a good game in your own way. Amazing!

 

[Desiderius]

One other nice feature is that Lore skills actually matter in P:K since they tell you which mobs are susceptible to which spells and abilities. Turn on the eye button at the bottom left then mouseover mobs to get the info you need. Blinding Spiders is a good approach. Otherwise just cast Delay Poison on melee and beat them senseless. They don't do much damage outside of poison.

 

[Desiderius]

i wish that was why i rerolled constantly and never went much farther than vordakai

You're just enjoying playing a good game in your own way. Amazing!

Not just his own, I can assure you.

 

[Shitty Kitty]

So you played a wizard who could not CC spiders?
OK, I guess...

Well I could have CC'd spiders if at character creation someone had told me, btw unlike any other D&D game you'll ever play, in this lvl2 spiders are immune to mind affecting(was in spiders desctiption box after successful lore roll). Which btw includes sleep in case you're unaware.

Spiders are of the vermin type, and vermin have always been immune to mind-affecting effects in 3.x.

That's weird. Wouldn't that make things like that one clerical domain that grants the ability to rebuke/turn vermin... not work? Isn't rebuking a mind-affecting thing?

EDIT: wait, no, because then rebuking undead wouldn't work

what the fuck

that actually makes no fucking sense just from a simple out of game standpoint, spiders are pretty stupid but they're not MINDLESS

 

[NJClaw]

Isn't rebuking a mind-affecting thing?

No? Undead are immune to mind-affecting effects as well, it's in their traits.

"Mind-affecting" doesn't simply means "a thing that affects the mind", it's a very specific game term.

 

[Shitty Kitty]

Isn't rebuking a mind-affecting thing?

No? Undead are immune to mind-affecting effects as well, it's in their traits.

Yeah I realized that, and it makes sense from a system perspective - most undead are utterly mindless, basically meat-constructs powered by negative energy and the undead that aren't considered mindless don't have a living nervous system for a mind-affecting spell to even work on, though I'm not sure why rebuking or turning them without destroying them would work the way it does

but vermin are literally just lower orders of the animal kingdom, they're very stupid but they have INT and WIS scores (and CON scores) and they logically would just be ANIMALS that can be subject to mind-affecting, vermin can be tamed and even trained as "animal" companions with appropriate feat choices, etc.

"Mind-affecting" doesn't simply means "a thing that affects the mind", it's a very specific game term.

"some vermin don't have INT scores" wait what

 

[Desmodus Rotundus]

One other nice feature is that Lore skills actually matter in P:K since they tell you which mobs are susceptible to which spells and abilities. Turn on the eye button at the bottom left then mouseover mobs to get the info you need. Blinding Spiders is a good approach. Otherwise just cast Delay Poison on melee and beat them senseless. They don't do much damage outside of poison.

Which class gets delay poison as a lvl1 spell again? these spiders(in that berry quest cave) are only a challenge to lvl2 party(which you are for quite a while when you get that quest), that has lvl1 spells, after that point never felt a tinge of excitement running into more spiders, after you get to lvl 3 all the spiders I've come across have been piss easy.

 

[LannTheStupid]

I think this thread should be called www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker .

 

[Desiderius]

If you make sure you’re not sharing experience six ways before you have six toons then lvl three comes pretty fast. You can always buy a scroll from Jhod if you want to do it at lvl 2.

 

[Desiderius]

If you make sure to have good Perception there are a couple hidden areas up there where you can get some exp fighting easy mobs and disarming traps and another with a text adventure.

 

[Desmodus Rotundus]

Oh, you want criticism. Well some spell descriptions are utterly useless.
This makes enemies dazzled, frightened, shaken, etc.
There is no way in game to find out what those effects do game mechanics wise, which makes those descriptions about as useful as foam sword in a gunfight.
And they have a perfectly functional mechanic in conversations, of getting more info on certain words, why the fuck wouldn't you implement that for spells?
Oh yeah and I made sure to turn off simplified spell descriptions so that was a surprise at char creation when picking spells.