Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Will the "Ultimate" RPG ever be made? Can it be made?

King Crispy

Too bad I have no queen.
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
1,876,699
Location
Future Wasteland
Strap Yourselves In
I'm not talking about what you think your personal choice of what the ultimate RPG would be like. Obviously, that's highly subjective.

I am talking about the ultimate expression of what an RPG could be; there has to be a theoretical upper-limit depending on technology, conceptual design, and practicality. See below:

We have to assume the following:

- An RPG is not a simulator of all that life is or can be. An RPG must be restricted to some subset, agreed upon or not, of what "reality" is or could be. It must be constrained, just like any novel is.

- We should restrict our definition to a game that is playable on a "computer". We should not venture in to virtual reality, because that exceeds the realm of what a game is for purposes of this discussion. VR is stupid anyway.

That being said, let's proceed.

Ultimately, there are several aspects of an RPG that are to be considered unsurpassable that must be recognized:

- The game world is going to have to be large, large enough to be impressive (subjective) but not so large as to attempt to model an entire world or universe. This would exceed practicality and would require multiple lifetimes to justify.

- The interaction with what occupies this world is going to have to be equally impressive, from truly believable AI (up to some limit?) to almost unlimited manipulation and combining of objects present in the world.

- There clearly needs to be some purpose to the exercise, otherwise we're not talking about a game anymore. There must be a goal, a desirable outcome to play towards -- even if that goal is to model the life and times of some "adventurer".

I think it's fairly safe to say that, if we restrict ourselves to the above constraints or definitions, there may actually be no upper limit to the exercise, despite what I said above. The possibilities are literally endless and therefore we start getting back into the subjectivity of it all; what makes one novel better than the other? Are fantasy novels timeless? Are certain classic RPGs timeless?

I guess the most important question to ask is whether or not any of it matters. If it's all an artistic expression, then the level of technology is nearly inconsequential. So that leads us back to asking whether or not the "ultimate" RPG ever can be made. Maybe all RPGs already are the greatest they can be.
 

The_Mask

Just like Yves, I chase tales.
Patron
Joined
May 3, 2018
Messages
5,901
Location
The land of ice and snow.
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
If you listen to some of the "behind the scenes" of the games that you play, you'll soon realize that the real constraint to RPGs is money. There are many talented people out there that would absolutely love to make a good RPG.

If someone does make a good RPG, it is usually either they cut down on the visuals, or they make it up with working 5+ years on it. Or both. (see Kenshi)

Other than that, I have started to think that an RPG is just a discussion between the creator and his audience. And that the best RPGs are the ones that are made by a single auteur that has a dialogue with his audience where (s)he does not look down on their players, and engage them in a way where it's stimulant for everyone.

tl;dr: smart, humble people exist, they're just restricted in what they can do, and push towards making a "perfect RPG" by their funds.
 

Nazrim Eldrak

Scholar
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Messages
270
Location
My heart
First:
I would greatly appreciate it if you could simplify your sentences in the future.
Reading would be more fun.

Second:
If we're considering sci-fi then you're talking about some sort of Star Trek holodeck I suppose.

To answer your question "briefly":
As technology advances, so will RPGs.
For this we need resources that could one day be collected in space.

We also need a lot of energy, which could one day (haha) be created with fusion power.
"Fusion promises an almost limitless form of energy..."

Maybe if we also factor in quantum computing then the future of RPGs looks pretty bright.
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
Before we answer that question we have to first ponder over what can change the nature of a RPG!
latest
 

Theodora

Arcane
Patron
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Feb 19, 2020
Messages
4,620
Location
anima Bȳzantiī
Crispy pouring shade on the great Redaxium.

I guess theoretically what you want could be a thing (in terms of scale) if AI generative stuff gets fancy enough to build build remotely interesting side quests to compliment more compelling and meaningful 'real' ones. But beyond some cool text generation stuff it's still mostly a meme. And I'm far from an AI cultist, but I don't really know how else you could have a world, appropriately scaled, and believably filled with enough garbage to keep you busy indefinitely.

As it stands, AI is still far too dumb, and gamedevs aren't paid nearly enough to attract the kind of talent you want ... and that's the bit that seems least likely to change. Maybe pray for aliens to come down, they'd probably have some cool games.
 

Tyranicon

A Memory of Eternity
Developer
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
6,095
Life is a rpg. I'm the PC and all of you are NPCs.

It's either that or I have to accept that I have unresolved mental issues, and that ain't gonna happen.
 

gaussgunner

Arcane
Joined
Jul 22, 2015
Messages
6,158
Location
ХУДШИЕ США
Graphics and detail levels are already beyond the point of negative returns for gameplay, crafting sucks, AI procedural generated content will suck.

I guess the ultimate RPG would have Skyrim-level modding so there's no limit to the content, and also have good gameplay, possibly turnbased.
 

0sacred

poop retainer
Patron
Joined
Feb 12, 2021
Messages
1,412
Location
MFGA (Make Fantasy Great Again)
Codex Year of the Donut
A large gameworld by Ultima 6/7 standards? Well that was achieved. A large gameworld by today's (or future) standards that is very interactive? Sounds like a monstrous amount of clutter to me. Reminds me of Gamebryo games even though they aren't even very highly interactive.

In fact my "ultimate" RPG would be an Ultima 7 on steroids, complete with a good combat system. I have my doubts I'll see that in my lifetime though.
 

NecroLord

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck
Joined
Sep 6, 2022
Messages
8,931
Location
Southeastern Yurop
There is no such thing as "The Ultimate RPG", as each RPG is geared towards certain gameplay aspects, such as combat, story, characters, etc.
It is hard for an RPG to excel in all areas, but it depends on what the RPG is trying to accomplish.

There is this RPG called "Real Life" . I suppose you could call it The Ultimate RPG. It is really difficult and uninspiring, all your companions are likely to turn on you and betray you, while you level up at an incredibly slow pace. It's as if it was made by an unholy alliance between EA, Blizzard and Ubisoft...
Fuck it.
 

Blutwurstritter

Learned
Joined
Sep 18, 2021
Messages
888
Location
Germany
Life is a rpg. I'm the PC and all of you are NPCs.

It's either that or I have to accept that I have unresolved mental issues, and that ain't gonna happen.
That is perfect. I have a lot of quests for you and as a reward you will get invaluable life experience. To see from what cloth your cut, you may start with defrosting the mighty freezer. Then you must move the mountain of trash to reach the plains of stickiness that can only be cleansed by a vigorous scrubbing. All of these tasks can be grinded multiple times for as many level ups as you like! There is also a car-wash dlc for the experienced adventurer. The game expands as time goes on, delivering quests beyond imagination!
 

perfectslumbers

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 24, 2021
Messages
1,198
Design decisions have tradeoffs and require resources, and as such the ultimate RPG will never exist
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom