Incline Wizardry 8 Enhancements - A Call to Arms!

[townltu]

noticed a minor inconsistency:
The unidentified healing potions are named "blue potion", but the new icons show red potions.

If you want to keep the red color, the only possible solution i can see is editing stringdata.dat (CF -> String Editor -> Interface Strings Editor)



During a fierce battle one of my characters was forced to equip more healing potions,
1st i confused a (cherry?)bomb with the new LH/MH/HH potions, but luckily recognized the mistake before closing the inventory screen.
Else i would have sent my dragons out to you (@K) if the character had died because of this :D

Perhaps you could use a more distinguished shape, eg:

Besides, do you, Kaucukovnik VI., have any idea where to place the (left/right)wingtip.sti ?

 

[DraQ]

noticed a minor inconsistency:
The unidentified healing potions are named "blue potion", but the new icons show red potions.

If you want to keep the red color, the only possible solution i can see is editing stringdata.dat (CF -> String Editor -> Interface Strings Editor)

QFT.

What I would do - keep the original potion graphics, at most adding variants differing only in shape to help telling those light and hvy heals apart.

 

[Kaucukovnik]

Many thanks for the report! Will be fixed!

Well, I will keep the current colors, as the intention was to make them the same colors as their corresponding char status bars.
However, I'll change this:
-The name of unidentified ones to "Potion" instead of "Blue potion".
-Change the bombs to make them totally different from any potions
-Possibly use the current Cherry Bomb/Elemental icon for some potion grade
-Fix the md/hv stamina potion slight inconsistency in color

And these look great. I'll try to use them as well.


More unidentified item strings will need change. One large single-bleded axe is called Bipennis, for example.


And I haven't got a clue as to where those STIs might be used. Did you try to replace them with some bright color and see what happens?
I'd bet they are end pieces from some unused element that was sticking out of its frame. It was done that way with the "horned" beta bottom panel.

Wiz 8 UI data dirs are very messy, outdated and currently used files mixed together, and some final game UI graphics is duplicated. I might release an organized "modders resource" version once I get them all sorted, eventually.

 

[DraQ]

Well, I will keep the current colors, as the intention was to make them the same colors as their corresponding char status bars.

 

[WaltC333]

....
Wiz 8 UI data dirs are very messy, outdated and currently used files mixed together, and some final game UI graphics is duplicated. I might release an organized "modders resource" version once I get them all sorted, eventually.

Either it's a product of my imagination, or I'm enjoying the play of the .07 version a good deal more than the .05-.06 versions. .07 seems much "tighter" and fluid. I like the direction of the game very much! I also like the item graphics and so on--big improvements, imo.

Only thing of note to report, and perhaps this is something relative to only my system at the moment, but the gamma control in the in-game system options is for the moment broken. Not a problem in playing the game, however, but I'm sure this has not escaped attention.

Great job--the game is becoming far more fun to play, actually. I'm very much looking forward to seeing the rest of what you have planned getting implemented! The transparency option works just fine--better than previous versions of the mod IIRC, which always had a little something buggy they brought along. The "beta-inspired ui" is so good I've already accepted it as normal.

Yea, the "Bipennis" axe has always slightly puzzled me, too... It's expensive and not a terribly compelling weapon, imo.

later...

 

[Kaucukovnik]

I'm going to rename samurai leg armor, as the current "Tosei-Do (L)" etc. basically means "lower cuirass", which is silly.

But I have only found names for specific parts of lower armor:
haidate - thigh guards, the "skirt"
sune-ate - shin guards

So what to do? I'm thinking "Tosei-Date", "Date-Maru" etc., but I'm afraid of bringing even more nonsense. Anyone knowledgeable in this subject?

 

[townltu]

looking at the historic examples, to me the name for samurai armor appears more related to the material/way of manufacturing than the body part
i.e. the name mostly starts with the japanese words for chain/plate/scale/etc

So i would interprete Tosei-Do as a piece of armour, formed of a single or multiple pieces of metal or other rigid material, which covers the legs.

As probably even linguistic professors for historic japanese will endlessly debate the correct names,
i would suggest to stay with english, e.g.: "Samurai <Chain/Plate/scale/whatever> Armor (L)"

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Finally had some time to test this. Did a fresh install, made it to Arnika. Some points:
1. The readme says that new inventory is on by default, but it isn't.
2. The change of no-dachi into 1-handed weapon doesn't seem to be implemented.
3. All kinds of throwing knives, darts and shurikens-increased available quantities at vendors - how is this supposed to work exactly? I visited Anna, best vendor for thrown stuff and she doesn't seem to have more than usual.
4. New icons are great.
5. I like the changes done to Lord, changes to Samurai are meh.
6. Still no changes for ninja

 

[DraQ]

The change of no-dachi into 1-handed weapon

What faggotry is this?

@Kaucukovnik , 'splain yourself.

 

[townltu]

nodachi = odachi aka "o tachi", think it can be translated as "big great_sword"
should afaik have a blade legth of at least 3 shaku (~0.91m), was mainly a weapon for cavalry.

A single handed katana should not be so long that its tip touches the ground
if the wielder stands and holds it relaxed, else his moves with the sword will be restricted.
Based on that only persons with size >1,90m and "standard" arm length
would be able to handle a "small" odachi as single hand weapon on the ground with full efficiency.
Btw probably also as 2ndary weapon

The long odachis will require to adapt the sword style to the weapons dimensoins.

 

[Kaucukovnik]

1. Ouch, mistake. Meant to turn it on.
2. You're right, I really promise it in the next version
@DraQ: 'Splained in the readme. Ōdachi is supposed to be a cavalry sword, can't imagine that exclusively 2-handed. It's stronger, but slower and overall worse than Bushido Blade. New 2h katana incoming, as mentioned earlier.
3. Raised the original puny quantities to usable amounts, like 3 to 30 etc. Didn't add more types to any vendors. They should also regularly restock. The amounts may still need further increase though.
4 .Good to hear. Finished misc.equippables and most leg armor and reached 200 icons total.
5. Samurai changes are rather cosmetic, and they will get more fleshed out in the expanded content.
6. Not planning anything besides the better MP regen for Ninja. I like having them in my parties (Felpurr usually), and I don't find them weak.

Edit: On the other hand, for the purposes of foot combat, No-Dachi would be too impractical 1-handed, therefore a relatively weak 2-h weapon. Probably shouldn't change it after all.

 

[Ranselknulf]

I'm going to rename samurai leg armor, as the current "Tosei-Do (L)" etc. basically means "lower cuirass", which is silly.

But I have only found names for specific parts of lower armor:
haidate - thigh guards, the "skirt"
sune-ate - shin guards

So what to do? I'm thinking "Tosei-Date", "Date-Maru" etc., but I'm afraid of bringing even more nonsense. Anyone knowledgeable in this subject?

I think japanese armor types can roughly translate like this

kusari (japanese chain mail armor)

kikko (brigandine armor)

karuta (plated mail armor)


so maybe name it something like Karuta Haidate?

 

[DraQ]

nodachi = odachi aka "o tachi", think it can be translated as "big great_sword"
should afaik have a blade legth of at least 3 shaku (~0.91m), was mainly a weapon for cavalry.

And

Ōdachi is supposed to be a cavalry sword

Umm... [citation needed]?

I'm no weaboofag so it's entirely plausible you two have access to some source of information I don't (read: not Wikipedia), but AFAIK no-dachi is not a cavalry weapon, but mostly anti-cavalry one (albeit inferior to naginata or nagamaki).
It's much longer than katana (which already allowed 2h grip) - at least 120cm and around 170cm average, and is probably called "field sword" for a reason.
It *requires* 2h grip and could only be used on foot (how the fuck would you use slashing weapon about as long as you're tall from horseback?).

tl;dr
NO UR RONG FIX OR GTFO.

 

[Ranselknulf]

Whatever wikipedia he translated from is probably wrong.. but it is pretty much a big fucking sword so yah.

There aren't any horses in Wiz8 that I know of so go rub one out DraQ and calm down. Even if he thought it was a cavalry sword it'd make no difference to the game itself. (It's not a cavalry sword but it doesn't really matter)

 

[DraQ]

There aren't any horses in Wiz8 that I know of

One more reason to make it a huge 2H sword.


It was also used as dueling weapon AFAIK.

 

[townltu]

thats pretty much the situation where the players force the dungeon master by questioning his allmighty rules
to provide their characters a near death experience (or more
in order to restore the basic condition which makes rpgs so fascinating:

There are no rules in a fantasy rpg that you can rely on!
The more players believe to know them, the more they must be broken in order to keep surprises up.

 

[hoverdog]

6. Not planning anything besides the better MP regen for Ninja.

you might at least consider lowering their XP requirements somewhat.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Well, I guess the ninja will keep on sucking (relatively). It's easily the least cost effective class in the game imo.

 

[Kaucukovnik]

Changing exp requirements is unfortunately not possible AFAIK.
Can edit required stats though. Lowering stat requirements could at least free some points from Vitality and maybe some other stat.
Increase in hit points is another possibility, but I don't think that's what ninja needs.

There's yet another option: equipment again. Faerie ninjas are covered, but the others don't really have anything extraordinary that's exclusive to the class or at least benefits from its advantages.

And keep in mind that more substantial changes are planned after the basic mod is finished, along with the new locations and items. I'm trying to keep the changes small for now.

Yeah, my source for japanese weaponry was Wikipedia. I usually stumble upon such kind of info when I'm finding out what exactly are certain items supposed to be when making their icons.
My idea of the weapon's use was to utilize the horse's speed and direct the sword's blade towards opposing infantry (with relatively little swinging), while the length would give enough reach. You don't wave around with a lance either.
But such use doesn't make sense in Wiz8 anyway, whether it is a cavalry weapon or not. OK, it stays 2-handed.
A lucky omission after all...

 

[DraQ]

My idea of the weapon's use was to utilize the horse's speed and direct the sword's blade towards opposing infantry (with relatively little swinging), while the length would give enough reach.

That's koncerz:

Note the 1h hilt.

Nodachi is this:

Wapanese *love* their swinging.

 

[Shadenuat]

I wouldn't change item names, it's not an enhancement to change the style how items are named or asian theme handled from wacky to sensible, and it will alienate fans. Then you might think why *Light* *Sword* in named like that, or is Cuisinart a shitty name for item or what. Adding new items is okay, but changing existing ones is not fan's business. Tosei Do is not a typo, it's just how they rolled with names. Adding new items is okay and you can name them whatever you want.

 

[DraQ]

The way I'd handle the ninja would be making him super-rogue of sorts, but fragile.

Give ninja backstab in addition to crit and auto-penetrate with thrown weapons, but limit HP progression to that of a mage. The idea is that ninja should murder the fuck out of stuff as long as he stays in combat, but have little staying power.

Also allow all minimal armour in addition to ninja garb, and all concealable (small stuff like daggers)/plausibly deniable weapons (sticks, anything with practical use outside of killing people) in addition to weeaboo ones.

 

[Ranselknulf]

Pumping up ninja ranged damage / crit kills and lowering their hp won't increase the challenge for 99% of players.. (they will just keep them back row and throw ninja stars and shit)


The other 1% who want to solo on ninja will be fucked over... either way I don't see how implementing the change you suggested will improve the enjoyment for either category of player.


That is if you even care about challenge in a game. I'm personally of the opinion that you shouldn't have to artificially handicap yourself to make a game challenging.. so fuck off with the "don't use that ability lulz" nonsense. (not necessarily directed toward you DraQ but rather at other melonheads who have been bothering me this fine night.)

 

[DraQ]

Pumping up ninja ranged damage / crit kills and lowering their hp won't increase the challenge for 99% of players.. (they will just keep them back row and throw ninja stars and shit)


The other 1% who want to solo on ninja will be fucked over... either way I don't see how implementing the change you suggested will improve the enjoyment for either category of player.

The point isn't increasing challenge but making ninja worthwhile.

Fragility is meant to be merely compensation for awesome overdose.
I'm imagining ninja to be someone you deploy when you absolutely need something dead right fucking now, but can't afford to keep in action all the time.

Also backstab isn't ranged damage.

 

[Kaucukovnik]

It's just that calling a lower armor "Do" is pure nonsense, which even I can see. I'd just like something to replace the "Do" part for these 3 leg armor pieces.

What about this:
Original / Suggestion 1 / Suggestion 2 (using Flunklesnarkin's info)
Do-Maru (L) / Sune-Ate-Maru / Kikko--Sune-Ate
Tosei-Do (L) / Tosei-Sune-Ate / Kusari-Sune-Ate
Hi-Kane-Do (L) / Hi-Kane-Haidate / Karuta-Haidate

The first two are shin guards only, while Hi-Kane has the skirt part too, so the names should be relatively correct.

The upper parts will retain the old names, of course.

(Isn't there a better way to format columns?)


Edit:
Glass cannon Ninja sounds quite good. Playing solo would become hell, unless dual classing from some more durable class. Also, Ninjas tend to be faeries, which are already rather fragile.
Allowing more armor would only unreasonably raise AC, which the stealthy Ninjas already have in abundance. I already compensated for the little more I allowed with robes. What we need is more killing potential.

I'd rather bring the martial arts weaponry now, than overhaul any class too much. Will do both after the completed "patch" version is out.