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Wizardry Wizardry: Labyrinth of Lost Souls - now available on PC

Ysaye

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I use a gamepad and it works perfectly fine with it, but you can also use the mouse in combination with keyboard movement and its okay as well

Character creation would have been annoying as it doesn't tell you the min stats for classes, which if you know Wizardry isn't a problem, it's the same as in Wiz1-3, but newcomers will be confused, as they don't know where to put stats to even select a simple warrior. There are no random stat rolls in the usual sense, you have minium stats per race and then can allocate a number of points (always the same number), or allocate those points randomly (kind of pointless, why would you even?!?) instead of manually raising the stats to get certain classes

I haven't played far, but found difficulty pretty easy. You level up automatically after you reach enough EXP in fights in dungeons, you don't have to go back to town, which can or could be annoying if you get not only plus but minus upgrades for stats (I have to look out for that next time if it really happens, I read a review on GOG that stats can go down, which is on par with early Wizardry, but not exactly something I like)

About the vocals, I actually have no idea, I don't even remember

It's definitely not the best jap-Wizardry out there, but if you need to scratch that itch to play an early-type Wizardry game its adequate

Agree on the controls.

Yes newbies will be (mildly) confused about the classes if they haven't played Wizardry and don't know what stats they need to get certain classes, but you can just allocate your alignment and bonuses to the appropriate attribute till you get a basic class (Wiz, Fighter, Cleric, Thief). The most annoying thing is that there is no re-roll button (you have to go in and out).

On levels up - yes stats can sometimes go down just like old Wizardries; the randomness is seemingly linked to the race and class; it is known that the Luck stat (which is very useful for a number of the calculations including and particularly random item drops) is only majorly cultivated by one race (The Halfing race Porklu). Munchkins will as a consequence tend to build whole parties of porklus.

Whilst easy early on, the game does have a difficulty spike closer to the last dungeon and personally I found the last time round near the end of Shiin's dungeon (unless you have invested in fighting levels prior) your non-fighting classes are very squishy, even backrow and with a couple of Bishop Magic Walls guarding them. I haven't played the DLC dungeons yet.
 

Shackleton

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I can't believe all the gripes about the UI. Playing with a controller it's typical standard fare. The only thing I don't like is the turbo being a 'hold down' and not a toggle, but I can live with that. It'd be nice if it worked with combat though. I'm down to just the fourth floor of Shin's and there's been a noticeable step up in difficulty. Not so much in terms of dungeon design, but definitely in mob power. Was pleased to see it, I was steamrollering everything up to now. (Well apart from the odd higher level human fighter who one-shotted characters earlier on.)

I wasn't crazy about the levelling as soon as you hit the XP target either, but actually I kind of like it now. I'm not autistic enough to save after every battle and reload if one of my guys levels up sub-optimally, so it makes me live with the RNG which really is one of the core tenets of a wizardry. I've seen far more stats up than stats down and at lvls 13-14 most of my guys are at or one point under their stats cap. The game has certainly grown on me.
 

Shackleton

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They just released a patch and my comments regarding turbo being a toggle appeared to be prophetic:

We have released a new version of Wizardry: Labyrinth of Lost Souls.
Build Number (Steam): 4595270

This build implements the following features:
-Mouse control functionality added to the following sub-menus: treasure chests, spells, item identification.
-"Toggle" for Turbo Mode has been added to the Settings menu. This function will allow you to toggle the mode on and off by pressing the assigned button/key. "Hold" is still available as an option.
-Auto-battle mode restored to the game. Default controls: Activate "auto-battle" by holding R2/Shift and holding down the confirm key.

This updated has also been released on GOG (Version 1.0.8).


/Incline.
 

Ysaye

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Can the alignment of the leader easily be changed?

I have been running with a party of only three fighters (two good aligned, one neutral), and one of them died on the 4th level of the Trial dungeon when I overstretched. I was desperate to get back to town with the reduced team of two who had still a few hit points and still packed a punch, so I was just wildly fighting anything on the way out, and accidentally engaged a fight of enemies "cowering" which (I didn't notice till later) caused my neutral fighter to become evil. When I got back to the town, I tried to put my Good aligned Bishop into the team, only to find I couldn't so I dropped off my now evil fighter in the guild, forgetting all the 60K of gold was pooled with her, and now I can't get them back in because my leader is good aligned. I was planning to make that neutral character a thief eventually.....seems like I did it accidentally and without changing alignment. As a consequence I have been trying to get the leader to change to a neutral alignment but I am concerned that I may have other characters (who have already gone neutral) go evil before the leader changes....
 

Shackleton

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Well as you've discovered, the way to change alignment is through dealing with neutral and frightened creatures. If you 'Attack' them you shift towards evil, 'Watch' is the neutral and no change position, and 'Leave' shifts alignment towards good. If you want your evil fighter back in the party, you've got to send him out with another party and 'Leave' mobs if you get the chance. Alternatively, turn everyone neutral or evil by killing everything you come across with the rest of your guys. If I remember right, Shiin 4F had quite a lot of neutral parties you could attack, and is a very good grinding floor as well. You should be able to handle it if you can manage Trials 4F.

What also might work, and I've not tried it myself but it always worked in the old Wizardrys, is to take your evil fighter into the dungeon alone and get him killed. Then take the rest of your party of 5 to the spot where he died and 'Search for allies'. That always used to work for getting good and evil together, worth a try.
 

Ysaye

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Well as you've discovered, the way to change alignment is through dealing with neutral and frightened creatures. If you 'Attack' them you shift towards evil, 'Watch' is the neutral and no change position, and 'Leave' shifts alignment towards good. If you want your evil fighter back in the party, you've got to send him out with another party and 'Leave' mobs if you get the chance. Alternatively, turn everyone neutral or evil by killing everything you come across with the rest of your guys. If I remember right, Shiin 4F had quite a lot of neutral parties you could attack, and is a very good grinding floor as well. You should be able to handle it if you can manage Trials 4F.

What also might work, and I've not tried it myself but it always worked in the old Wizardrys, is to take your evil fighter into the dungeon alone and get him killed. Then take the rest of your party of 5 to the spot where he died and 'Search for allies'. That always used to work for getting good and evil together, worth a try.

Unfortunately in this Wizardry you have to have your leader in the party all the time, so I can't just send the evil fighter off to get killed (which is similarly what I was thinking of doing).

Yes I don't remember Shiin's that well but you may be right - 4th level is where it has lots of "human party" types I think? I will give that a go - I am just hoping the fighter that has gone neutral won't go from there to evil first, also I will have the same issue around healing unless I create an evil healer to service them whilst I try and get them back to neutral.
 

Shackleton

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You can still do it though, at least according to the gamefaqs board. If you quit to main menu and continue, but instead of selecting your main save char, select a fresh character and 'create new', they all share the same space apparently. So you can make an evil leader, take your fighter into Trials 1F, save and return to title. Then select your main save char and go to the same space and 'search for allies' with a free slot. Should let you nab your fighter.

I'm wondering personally if there's any disadvantage to switching everyone to evil though, because I can't find any sign of one. I'm running a good party with a neutral thief, because I'm used to there being hidden affinity penalties to having mixed alignments but I don't think there are here. At least I can't find anything about it. Might start wanton slaughter of everything to change my neutral thief evil and class change to ninja.

Found a very nice Google sheets document that lists pretty much everything regarding quests and drops, avoid if you don't want spoilers but I've found it useful.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Ypvi5N7kUJOZrnBQ/edit?hl=en_US&hl=en_US#gid=5
 

Troglofil

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Does anyone have the fully cleared deep dungeon maps? I've already mapped level 6 but can't continue the final quest because I miss tiles on level 4 and 5.
 

Ysaye

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You can still do it though, at least according to the gamefaqs board. If you quit to main menu and continue, but instead of selecting your main save char, select a fresh character and 'create new', they all share the same space apparently. So you can make an evil leader, take your fighter into Trials 1F, save and return to title. Then select your main save char and go to the same space and 'search for allies' with a free slot. Should let you nab your fighter.

I'm wondering personally if there's any disadvantage to switching everyone to evil though, because I can't find any sign of one. I'm running a good party with a neutral thief, because I'm used to there being hidden affinity penalties to having mixed alignments but I don't think there are here. At least I can't find anything about it. Might start wanton slaughter of everything to change my neutral thief evil and class change to ninja.

Found a very nice Google sheets document that lists pretty much everything regarding quests and drops, avoid if you don't want spoilers but I've found it useful.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Ypvi5N7kUJOZrnBQ/edit?hl=en_US&hl=en_US#gid=5

Thanks! I wondered about loading up with another character - that way I can just choose a neutral leader, get the gold to my neutral (but desirably good) character and then work on getting them back to neutral / good (I want to run with a Lord eventually, so will need to be good).
 

Shackleton

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Does anyone have the fully cleared deep dungeon maps? I've already mapped level 6 but can't continue the final quest because I miss tiles on level 4 and 5.

Sorry, you're further ahead than me. Mine are all mid to late 30's and I've just about cleared the first floor of Deep Levels but doubt I can go much further without some (or a lot of) grinding. Every so often I run across those Daemon Lords who laugh at my two Bishop's walls and just blow through my party like a knife through butter.

*EDIT* Actually I got confused about which dungeon I was in, d'oh! Thought I was clearing the first floor of Deep Levels, turned out I was in the last floor of Shiin's. As you can imagine, I was pretty surprised when the final boss battle (of the pre-game) popped and the credits rolled. Turns out only 0.4 users have beaten that end battle so I can't be that slow. Onwards and downwards towards moar grindin'!
 
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Shackleton

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Only 10 pages of discussion? :D

Well to be fair it's a port of a pretty average 10 year old game in a niche genre, so I don't think thousands of codexers are glued to it every hour of the day.

FWIW, I'm really enjoying it but I like these sort of 'explore and grind' games. Currently on my third day of grinding the Daemon Lords in the bottom floor of Shiin's dungeon for my Cursed Blade to turn into Murakumo for my Samurai. Just read it's a good idea to equip Seeker rings on all chars to help with the drop rate but it's been abysmal so far. I have got two Sacrifice seals, a Samurai Helmet and a Control seal in the meantime so it's not been a dead loss. Oh, and about 10 levels for everyone. Those Leapers and Unholiness' are still a bitch though.
 

Ysaye

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Only 10 pages of discussion? :D

Well to be fair it's a port of a pretty average 10 year old game in a niche genre, so I don't think thousands of codexers are glued to it every hour of the day.

FWIW, I'm really enjoying it but I like these sort of 'explore and grind' games. Currently on my third day of grinding the Daemon Lords in the bottom floor of Shiin's dungeon for my Cursed Blade to turn into Murakumo for my Samurai. Just read it's a good idea to equip Seeker rings on all chars to help with the drop rate but it's been abysmal so far. I have got two Sacrifice seals, a Samurai Helmet and a Control seal in the meantime so it's not been a dead loss. Oh, and about 10 levels for everyone. Those Leapers and Unholiness' are still a bitch though.

I would be interested to know how much class changing you have done? - Below is what I have (Bolded is where it is right now)
  • Elven 20 Figher -> 19 Lord -> Bishop -> Elven Lord? I was originally planning on going to Bishop and staying there but I am thinking longer term a Lord will be more useful, better defence and really decent one character attacks
  • Elven 20 Figher -> 19 Samurai -> Bishop; Mainly doing this just to get the HP up there
  • Porklu 20 Fighter -> 19 Thief; I am thinking of just leaving them as this, I know that they will become increasingly useless going forward, but at the moment with a death knife it is my best character at just instakills)
  • Human 20 Fighter -> 21 Samurai (This one is proving so much better at slicing and dicing than my Elven one, better HP as well)

I also have the following:
Gnome 21 Bishop; Useful character but very squishy if stuff gets through the Bishop Walls, which I suspect they will at some point. Was going to just leave at home and do the healing and the identifying
Porklu 13 Fighter -> Lord; This has been a really useless character, I created this because I had read that having lots of Porklu was what you wanted longer term but he has low intelligence, low faith, low vitality.... Does anyone know why it is good to have lots of Porklus? Is it just because they have a higher luck cap? What does this impact? Instakills? Better Drops?

I am thinking of adding another Lord and Samurai....
 

Daidre

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I have completed Shi'in and Trials dungeons and two floors of Deep Levels. My party is:

  • Human pure Ninja MC, was a decent front-liner and mediocre thief in the first half of the game, but gear fixed her thieving problems and Assassinate started really shine at lower levels of Shi'in, after I found her shuriken and moved to the second row. One shotting regenerating enemies like dragons and heavy hitters like Demon Lords is very satisfying.
  • Dwarf Fighter 40 > Lord, I would have dualed him earlier, but my party was initially evil so it took some time. Proved to be surprisingly solid and reliable (huge HP pool too) for a such a basic build. I guess fast leveling of the base class helped here.
  • Pure Human Samurai, same as with Fighter, surprisingly good for a single class and my best performer by kill-count
  • Pure Elven Bishop, his early access to Magic Wall got me through middle levels of Shi'in, when difficulty started to raise.
  • Elven Priest 25 > Bishop, ended up roughly in the same place as Pure Bishop but with +100 HP, could also do some gruesome whacks with the Holy Mace.
  • Gnome Wizard 25 > Bishop 27 > Samurai. This guy's life in the first row is hard. Really hard. His STR, VIT and AGI growth is horrible and I am still mull over if the last class change into Lord would make him better.
I really like to have 2 high level Bishops with Magic Wall and strong spell-casting, so I have no desire to change them into Lords or Samurais. Poor multicalssed gnome is kinda weakest link in my party.

PS about the game in general: it turned out to be ridiculously addictive through Shi'in (original content) - difficulty gets pretty steep lower you go and party growth is very cool. Post-game DLC though (Deep Levels) seems to require ridiculous amount of grinding with super-rare gear upgrades and no new class features. I burned out there, but still got ~35 hours of solid fun out of old Japanese wizardry clone.
PPS Played it with controller, mouse controls are clunky.
 
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Shackleton

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Yeah, I kind of screwed up the class changing a bit tbh. I'm annoyed with myself because I know the Wizardry system pretty well and I could have (and still might) given the Samurai's and my Lord casts of every spell rather than just their class spells. Still, it's not making much difference and it's only triggering me because of character OCD. Below is what I have;

Porklu Ninja, started as a Thief and then around mid 40's went on a murder spree in Shiin 10 to change to evil to switch to Ninja. Then left everything in Shiin 10 to switch back to good, currently lvl 52. He's ok but as you'll see he doesn't contribute much. He's in front just in case the luck of the lead char affects drop rate.

Human Samurai, started as a Fighter and switched about 40. Should have levelled up as Mage purely with gold to get Teleport spell but hey ho. Kills incredibly well with Murumasa blade that dropped on Deep Levels 4.

Human Samurai, started as Priest then switched to Lord intending to keep him there but Dwarf turned out to have much higher HP and better suited to Lord so switched this guy around 40 to Sam. Got a Bizen Osafune blade from a boss fight in Deep levels and if my first Sam doesn't kill a row, he mops up.

Dwarf Lord, started as Samurai, switched to Bishop until 30's to get all spells then switched to Lord. Bags of HP and just tends to 'Huge Shield' every turn to protect the others.

2x Elf Bishops, one that started as Mage and one as a Bishop. Switched one to Bishop around 30's and one to Fighter (!) purely because her HP was awful. Didn't get it up too much as she's an Elf, but switched her back to Bishop in her 30's and now she's about 300HP higher than the one that went Mage > Bishop.

Everyone is about 52/ 54 and every battle currently follows this pattern: Ninja hides then Assassinate. Samurai Sougeki skill if it's rows or just fight if single target. Lord Huge Shields and Bishops Magic Walls. So far everything melts but levels and HP are the biggest factors. The two Samurai and their rare blades are key, need to get them decent swords otherwise Deep Levels are going to be very painful. Plus get a Control Seal on Shiin 10 to make exploring a breeze.
 

Shackleton

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Aaaaand... I think I'm done. Defeated the last boss of the Deep Levels and all I have left is one repeatable quest to kill a load of lvl 99 Goblins which seems pretty pointless. Last boss was a big disappointment, went down in three rounds and had no surprises up her sleeve. Wondering if that really is all there is to do or I'm missing something to unlock the 'true final boss'. The Google sheet I linked earlier says not though, so looks like that's it.

Finished with characters all mid 50's, was a cakewalk really. Nothing compared to E:Gothic, but enjoyable enough. Steam says 41 hours and probably around 6 of that was farming in Shiin 10 for a Murakumo that I used for about 30 mins before a better sword dropped in Deep Levels 4!
 

Jermu

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DqEKYmB.png

Got a nice roll
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Wow, 59. Nicely done.

I haven't committed to playing it yet, but while testing character generation, between usual rolls of 8-21, I got a 50 out of the blue. Kinda wasted on a mere human. Made him a ninja because, well, would feel like a waste otherwise. But I'm not even sure I want an (evil) ninja. And if I do, if I want him to be a human (probably a Porklu with his luck would be better).
 

Dorarnae

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Aaaaand... I think I'm done. Defeated the last boss of the Deep Levels and all I have left is one repeatable quest to kill a load of lvl 99 Goblins which seems pretty pointless. Last boss was a big disappointment, went down in three rounds and had no surprises up her sleeve. Wondering if that really is all there is to do or I'm missing something to unlock the 'true final boss'. The Google sheet I linked earlier says not though, so looks like that's it.

Finished with characters all mid 50's, was a cakewalk really. Nothing compared to E:Gothic, but enjoyable enough. Steam says 41 hours and probably around 6 of that was farming in Shiin 10 for a Murakumo that I used for about 30 mins before a better sword dropped in Deep Levels 4!

You can try to beat the post game boss(vampire queen) without weakening her(good luck). wasn't there a dungeon with lvl 80-99ish monster too? been a while since I played but personally I think the hardest stuff from that game and the sequel are harder than elminage gothic.(mostly because grinding is boring/not fast enough in this one)
 

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