Wizard's Crown

[octavius]

My previous party realized they were not up to their task when goblins, magicians and sorcerers were running rings around them. Slow spell casters is really detrimental to your health and morale.

So I restarted yet again, this time with a pure Sorcerer with 20 Dex and a Ranger/Sorcerer with 16 Dex. I also started Viewing Captured Items with my highest skilled Searcher instead of the guy with highest Evaluate Magic, and unless it's just due to random luck, I'm finding much better and more numerous items now with Search 100.
Right after enchanting the Frost Claymore (found in town), on day 5 I got this from some Giant Rats:

And in next battle against Zombies I got +4 Chain Mail and Very Fine Morningstar.

 

[octavius]

For my latest party I decided to retain Folnar and Father John of the pregens, since they have much more skill points than any player created Fighter/Priest and Ranger/Priest.

 

[octavius]

So how the hell are you supposed to defeat 7 Magicians and 4 Sorcerers, supported by 10 Goblins?
They spam spells like they have unlimited Power (which they probably do). Even with Elric's 20 Dexterity, some of those little pukes will cast Countermagic before him anyway.
I was on the verge of rage quitting, when I remembered the obscure combat tactic perfected by Sir Robin the Brave.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Lol. Yeah running.

Lemme think, them gobs have shields right (blocky blocky). And damn dark xbow. That search be nice. I never recall getting that lucky early on c64. Yeah, enemy spellcasters are utter assholes (wait til you hit the nasty undead).

Trying to think of my group. One guy was an axe user to bust shields strong as hell, one was flails, one spear, at least one xbow, priest high dex praying bless or w/e each round, sorcerers were high dex.

Yeah, not sure how much grinding I did or luck. Obviously getting surprise helped like all hell and defending inside a structure also generally helped except god damn spellcasters. I generally forget what spells the early ones get off besides counter magic. I think you have to rip out a dispel to bust it then counter with your own. It has been a long while. Obviously if you have more dex you should get first strikes without a surprise. Fireball? Lightning. I’ve forgetten the spell lineup.

I recall some of my guys were pretty strong and either the magic in the weapon or the brute force could knock even a blocking goblin unconscious. My memory is just so iffy here.

I certainly didn’t have that nice of gear the first encounter with goblins and sorcerers.

I also wonder differences appleii vs c64 vs dos etc. Is one more difficult than the other? Also, what difficulty setting did you start on? What is it 1-5 range?

 

[octavius]

Fireball is out of the question when the assholes spam Counter-magic before my 20 Dex guy gets the chance. And I'm not even sure if casting chance is based on when the sorcerer starts the casting or when he's finished with the abracadabra stuff, which is kind of relevant if there's an enemy Counter-magic cast in the middle to the casting. Too bad you can't make Fireball scrolls.
But at least these humanoid spell casters will only rob you, which means any of the characters who don't manage to flee are not permanently lost.

Also, if the chance to find loot if based on the Search skill of the character doing the initial View Loot, then DaveO's tactic of having extra characters with high Search skill won't help.

Quite a steep learning curve for this game.

I've started jotting down the co-ordinates where you meet various enemies. It's not just going south they become hairier; the armies of Magicians and Sorcerers seem to appear if you go too far east (past the fist dungeon 14 squares east of the entry to the Ruins (in which I was relieved to find the Emerald Key).

 

[octavius]

Grrrrrrgoyles.

 

[octavius]

Golems...Jesus Christus...they have like 1000 HP and 95% resistance to anything but Bash. I thought the Garg were annoying, but the Golems top them. And the motherfuckers didn't even leave any fat loot.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I won’t spoil the golems weakness. You’ll love it though.

 

[octavius]

Ah, the Golem Staff. I found the first two parts and the third is supposed to "hidden in the wood". I searched everywhere, but to no avail. So I consulted a Higher Power, namely ASchultz ("I know everything") and his maps. The third piece is supposed to be in a chest on the third level, but no matter how much I search nothing turns up.
The map makes me think I may need to reset the dungeons, though, since I didn't find half the things noted on the map.

EDIT: That didn't help. But I got a second copy of one of the first two parts, and that worked.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Hmmm…. Apple version? I wonder if the files are screwed up some how. That’s IRK the hell out of me the piece not being found. Perhaps your skill to find items isn’t high enough (if it is even needed).

 

[octavius]

I thought about that, but it seems unlikely. My guy with 150+ Search skill didn't even find the wood.

One thing that is annoying me now is Golems ruining all my shields in quick combat. In regular combat you can re-equip your guys in the deployment phase, but not so with quick combat.
So maybe it's better to just ignore Shield skill? There are other items you can use instead; I found a Ruby+2 that can't be activated, but works like a hand held extra piece of armour.

 

[octavius]

Hmm...are those rural temples only good for restoring Power?

My party was two steps away from the city gates when they closed for the nights, and had to head for one of those temples in the ruins. It was like wall-to-wall with undead the whole way. Too bad it was only the quantity and not the "quality" of monster that increase at night.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Have you messed around with the hell hounds and Iron Golems. I think there are two sets of golems. Wardpact demons can just be annoying, carry different weapons T, C, B types.

 

[octavius]

My party eats Hell Hounds (perfect for a berbecue) and Iron Golems for breakfast. They are weaklings compared to the Gnarled Trees. They take literally hours to take down...

Yeah, I'm getting really tired of HP sponges now.

 

[octavius]

Damn, this game is grindy. There's no exploration to speak of, nor any puzzles to break up the monotony of mapping ruins, head back, sell stuff, improve, rest, rinse and repeat.

I've now started encountering Trolls and Dragons. Both are pushovers, and not nearly as scary as were Hell Hounds, Golems, Gargoyles and Gnarled Trees when I first encountered them (Gnarled Trees are still scary, and I don't want to explore their grove yet).

 

[Ladonna]

Damn, this game is grindy. There's no exploration to speak of, nor any puzzles to break up the monotony of exploring ruins, head back, sell stuff, improve, rest, rinse and repeat.

Main problem with the game. Awesome combat system, with a couple of decent dungeons basically, but I don't want to be too harsh to a game released back then. Just sad that more similar games weren't released with clean ups, apart from a few one man band efforts (Nahlak, Natuk, Helherron, unfinished Pirates of the Western seas, and that other Proudfoot game where you go through random tower levels).

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Well, Disciples of Steel is relatively similar.

 

[Ladonna]

Well, Disciples of Steel is relatively similar.

In what ways?

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Tactical combat is similar but perhaps not as exhaustive. Skill allotment is definitely inspired from Wizard’s Crown. I do recall the inspiration for DOS was the WC series. It gets a lot of shit and many say worst game ever for sone reason. I doubt they got far in the game. It is a buggy mess at times. Lordy did this game need some spellchecks and map fixings along with certain quests that won’t trigger rewards esp if you somehow kill xyz before even getting the quest. When I bought at used shop on diskettes (looked like copies on as manual was a damn photocopy) I was hooked. Never got the only patch (I think there was one) and wish I could have found the CD version.

https://www.myabandonware.com/game/disciples-of-steel-2ph

 

[DaveO]

Magic or life drain weapons are the only ones worth improving. In regards to fighting enemies with magic, quick combat works well. Don't do that for the fight versus Tarmon. Defensive magic items help in both regular and magic fights. You can try the white rabbits southeast of the mansion on the single tiled forest square, but that can only be done once.

 

[octavius]

Just met my first Ward Pact Demons, 37 squares south and far to the east. I've mapped down to S51, so meeting them there makes me think the game is partially level scaled.
They seemed harmless enough; no spell casting, and low HP and AC.
But I can sense great butthurt potential when fighting armies of them, and keeping track of what kind of damage each one is vulnerable to.

 

[octavius]

Well, the White Rabbits on the field of bone was a disappointment.
One fireball took care of the varmints, and the loot was underwhelming.

 

[DaveO]

Sorry to hear your disappointment. Time and experience are two things against you. If you want magic weapons, your chances are a bit better versus humanoid enemies. The reason the Trees are so hard is that they have 200 life points. That means they will take ludicrous punishment and keep coming. Trying fights too early risks both injuries and big morale loss. Both injuries and morale loss affect almost all skills. When you have more than three magic weapons, fights will go quicker. The inn experience bonus comes at seven experience initially, but moves beyond ten later. You eventually get drawn to fighting during night which gets you quite a bit of experience and treasure.

I tend to develop fighting for all characters, get sorcerers and clerics up to potential, and hunt areas with good risk to reward. I then go for 20 dex if I don't already have it and life to 70 points. You don't need str early, so dex is always the priority early. Is there a need to be redundant on skills like Search? I still feel yes, but you are free to develop the group as you see fit.

P.S. Tarmon also has 200 life points, can cast spells, and destroys any magic weapons that hit him.

 

[octavius]

I forgot to search after the bunniecide. Lots of magic items, but nothing outstanding.
Best (or rarest) I've found so far were some Reinforced items from a pack of Trolls.

 

[Whipping Post]

It gets a lot of shit and many say worst game ever for sone reason.

I've also seen people say DoS is one of the best. The guy who writes CRPGAddict placed it in his top five or ten and there's a pretty thorough review of it on his blog. It's a strange game; surprisingly deep mechanically, but very much an early 90s low budget affair.