Wizard's Crown

[octavius]

DoS made a horrible first impression on me, with its big, empty town that should have been a menu town. But apart from that, and some bugs that you can work around if you know about them, it is indeed a great game.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Yeah, with my barely readable manual that startup was brutal. I literally thought BLEH WTF HOW TO PLAY! I think a lot of harsh reviews don’t get much further than that stsrting town.

 

[Modron]

Yeah, with my barely readable manual that startup was brutal. I literally thought BLEH WTF HOW TO PLAY! I think a lot of harsh reviews don’t get much further than that stsrting town.

I think it's more the opposite most of the praising reviews probably only played the first town or first two towns at most and didn't bother to finish the game before gushing over it. Because that back half really winds down and the final quarter is an even bigger step down.

https://steamcommunity.com/stats/373420/achievements/
11.6% of the enhanced edition's players finished it.

https://steamcommunity.com/stats/230230/achievements/
7.2% of the original release's players finished the game.

 

[octavius]

Uh...in this context DoS is Disciples of Steel, not Divinity: Original Sin, Modron.

 

[Ladonna]

I was gonna say "Disciples of Steel is on Steam? I thought it was a rare game that requires heading to the nearest (still existing) abandonware site".

 

[octavius]

Day 100, and the end is in sight , I think.
Usually I want to complete a game in as few game days as possible, but this impulse is overridden by the need to explore evert square. The only noteworthy thing I've found was a second, unmarked Inn far to to south-west.

 

[octavius]

Perimeter secured. We're going in. May Paul be with us.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Nice map.

 

[octavius]

Completed the game on day 135.

Explored every square of the overland. Found only two things of interest: the White Rabbits and a second, unmarked Inn. Except for the three dungeons, a couple of sanctuaries (only good for passing time and recover spell points), and a couple of enchanters, none of the squares in the Ruins that looked interesting contained anything of interest. But I assume two of the light coloured squares were supposed to be the two temples that you hear rumours about.
Apart from that the only "story" element on the overland was how monsters tend to aggregate in certain areas, like groves/parks with Gnarled Trees, Assassins' world convention in the NW corner, Dragons in the mid eastern section, Golems outside the second dungeon, Demons outside the third dungeon, and the toughest monster groups (a combo of Golems, sorcerors and high level fighers) in the SW and SE corners.
I never did any night exploring; just mapping the whole overland made my party rather too OP, and I beat Tarmon and his demons using quick fight. In the end I was just sick and tired of this game, that made me backtrack all the time. I think it's probably the worst grind I've played, and I felt I had seen what the game had to offer when I had explored about half of the overland.

So a game with some good elements (combat system, praying, skill system, items), but just too badly paced.
Never bothered with alchemy, due to the inventory limit and having to equip the potions. Never bothered with training either. In the end my guys were almost maxed out in most of the relevant skills. So I spent all money on enchanting items.

I will be interesting to see how Eternal Dagger compares, and how powerful my party will be.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Did you do more tactical or more quick combat? Are you going to post character’s endgame stats/gear? Always curious what others decide to use. How long did this take you or should I just go by first post. Pity emulators didn’t have play timers for games for speedrunners and just casual timing.

Are you going to post your full map with notations?

Any thing you forgot to comment on?

 

[octavius]

Mostly quick combat.

Here are my characters:
https://postimg.cc/gallery/jSk8LdZ

 

[Breshard]

Eternal Dagger is more like Nahlakh if i recall correctly, in that there is no infinite amount of grinding. Although i suppose you could probably cheese that with reloading dungeon tricks. This would probably be much more challenging with new characters since there's no infinite xp. I only ever played with imported characters so no idea how bad freshly created characters are.

 

[Ladonna]

This would probably be much more challenging with new characters since there's no infinite xp.

Not much of a problem. At least on the C64 version, new characters in ED already start with high levels in skills, some higher than imports, as you couldn't raise them all during the first game.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Eh….. not true. If you want to be OCD grind-fest you’d gather the best shit to sell to train up to train max (not really needed) and then xp skill up every last skill up to 250 per alt (I believe that is WC max while ED is 500). You could also keep going and get your stats up to oh 30s and life way up there but I forget if ED neuters you in transfer. It has been a long long while.

Something I haven’t compared is each port though. I am saddened by no ST port for ED. Damn shame but you do have the 800 I believe.

Wizard’s Crown
Releases by Date

• 1986 (Commodore 64)
• 1986 (Apple II)
• 1986 (Atari 8-bit)
• 1987 (Atari ST)
• 1987 (DOS)
• 2021 (Windows)

Eternal Dagger
Releases by Date

• 1987 (Apple II)
• 1987 (Commodore 64)
• 1987 (Atari 8-bit)

Damn shame…

 

[Tweed]

The Atari 8-bit version of WC was fine and then I moved on to Eternal Dagger which is the better game, improved a lot of outstanding issues. Overall the whole thing was p.fun.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I noticed Phantasie looked similar to c64 but I so prefer the sound on commodore. With WC/ED sound not why I play those games. Hmmm…. Now I want to hear sound clips.

 

[Tweed]

The ST version of WC plays Dixie at the title screen.

 

[octavius]

Started Eternal Dagger with an imported party.
Jeus Christus what a tedious game...18 Gnarled Trees...hooray!...waste 10 minutes of my life running away from them, only to get exact same encounter in the next square...faces Swamp Things...they have 50 Dex and my guys can't even hit them, despite having 200+ weapons skills. I guess this is why the experts suggest importing four sorcerers and four priests. Except you don't seem to get any Karma from resting, and there's no Temples.

You can't just quick combat either, since many of the fights are at night fighting without armour. And you have to rest every three squares, and have to eat food, but the message flashes so fast I can't read if they are starving or not. Ironically I miss being forced to -press Enter- here, while it's really bugging me when in the loot screen.

I think I may need to spend a few years slowly working my enthusiasm up for this game....

 

[DaveO]

You will need 250 for weapon skills to hit reliably. There are a few lairs of monster caches close to the starting point of the game. Save before looting those and you should have decent weapons for a few characters. Staves and wands are going to be big helpers in fights, so use them as you see fit. Your party is not bad, since you have 30 dexterity for a number of characters. The Swamp Things are vulnerable to ice, fire, and fear. The trees are just going to be long fights early since even starting weapons are initially normal.

Now since one of your sorcerers has no other professions, he will be your primary magic offense and defense. Get his power to 500 ASAP and spell casting to 250. Keep his dex high and you'll usually have the first shot at spells. Don't be afraid to use quick casting for spells with him, just don't overdo it. There is a temple to the southwest in the sacked town. Once you beat the necromancer on the starting isle, the town gets restored and you get access to weapons, items, and enchantments. BUT, you have to clear out the isle first and the sooner you take down the great dragon and loot it's lair, the better off you are.

Magic is more powerful in Eternal Dagger, but the weapons are weaker with some exceptions. My general advice is to clear the whole isle, since you need experience for stat and skill improvements. You can view my videos of ED where I show the lairs and view GameFaqs for weapons and items. Use Delay in your camp menu to slow down messages if they are too fast(9 is the slowest speed). Bear in mind that any character with a staff or wand of spells can be a temp sorcerer. IF you find anything with Wizard's, enchant it to +6 when you can. You won't be able to sell anything on the starting isle, so put all good armor and high value weapons in the backpack. You'll likely have five or more backpacks filled with good high value stuff to sell once you clear the isle. Encounters eventually drop off, so you can't milk the lands for continual experience and items. I understand the frustration with both games in this series, but keep at it and you'll be handing the things you fight their asses.

 

[DaveO]

I wanted to see if Octavius stayed around after the problems in ED. Likely not, and for some reason replying here works where I would only get blank text I could not reply to.

I can still reply to ED or WC. Or Phantasie. They may be almost dead, but I am not yet.

 

[DaveO]

I found that Awareness is quite important as a skill. Even more important than shield. It lets you be aware of monsters and determines your reaction and penalty if any.

 

[TheDeveloperDude]

How do you quit the game in Wizard's Crown DOS version? Simply closing dosbox?

 

[TheDeveloperDude]

"Morale loss is a stat in Wizard's Crown but it
can also apply to you the player."

 

[Deuce Traveler]

How do you quit the game in Wizard's Crown DOS version? Simply closing dosbox?

That should do it, but I believe a lot of the old DOS games could be quit and going to the DOS prompt via Ctrl-X orAlt-X depending on the version of the game. According to this page, there Alt-Q or Ctrl-Q will also sometimes work:

https://superuser.com/questions/1247788/how-to-exit-to-prompt-in-dosbox

 

[TheDeveloperDude]

Now $0.82 on GOG until 26/07