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Fallout Would an Avellone-led FNV have turned out better than Sawyer's?

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    138

The Bishop

Cipher
Joined
Oct 18, 2012
Messages
407
Because FNV is full of engaging gameplay in general? I suppose it's there somewhere, but all I got when playing FNV was a laggy ass gamebryo shooter that can't even buffer input properly. The quality of that experience for me was mostly poor, with exception of few places where it was atrocious.
 
Self-Ejected

Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
5,274
Avellone got the scraps.

That's Obsidian in general: for years on end, they made expansions/sequels for games on awful engines.

And the worst engine ever is the one NV was built on: the one Oblivion With Guns was built on, which was the one that powered the second worst RPG ever after Oblivion With Guns (Oblivion).
 
The Real Fanboy
Joined
Oct 8, 2018
Messages
1,121
It would be legit worse since Chris never showed up on Hbomberguy’s Donkey Kong 64 twitch stream to say ‘Trans Rights are Human Rights’ next to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, John Romero, Grant Kirkhope and Chelsea Manning like Josh did! Making Fallout: New Vegas a symbol of trans and LGBTQ activism!!!
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
36,870
Sawyer has the ingratiating sycophant perk, he slithered his way into every project effortlessly while Avellone got the scraps.

Feargus and Josh argued so much at Interplay that Feargus told him to go look for work somewhere else after Black Isle folded. While at Midway, Josh applied his autism to figuring out how to get what he wanted from Fearg without angering him. For whatever reason, Chris never could learn or never bothered to learn this skill.
 

2house2fly

Magister
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
1,877
Feargus and Josh argued so much at Interplay that Feargus told him to go look for work somewhere else after Black Isle folded. While at Midway, Josh applied his autism to figuring out how to get what he wanted from Fearg without angering him. For whatever reason, Chris never could learn or never bothered to learn this skill.
It's quite a feat to apply one's autism to successfully navigating interpersonal interactions. Mayhap Mister Chris Avellone is the one with autism...
 

Fairfax

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Messages
3,518
Sure, MCA could’ve made a game with even better characters, better quests, better stories, but could he have turned it around in 18 months? My guess is that an MCA-directed New Vegas would’ve been a higher risk, higher reward project—maybe he makes a masterpiece, maybe Feargus interferes more because he doesn’t defer to Avellone like he defers to Sawyer and that fucks things up, maybe they end up cutting essential content like KOTOR2 and the game’s true brilliance isn’t appreciated until someone releases a restored content mod years later.
There's a misconception that MCA-led projects struggle with deadlines and are too ambitious. KOTOR2 had all that unfinished/cut content because of the verbal agreement fiasco. PS:T was made in roughly 18 months (with a significant portion being pre-production), and he did just fine with his FNV DLCs, which had tight budgets and strict schedules.

It's unlikely that FNV would've had more cut/unfinished content than it already did. MCA has said in interviews that FNV was overscoped and that he wanted downscale it early to make it more polished. As for Ulysses, he was cut by Jason Bergman (Bethesda's producer on the game) early in development due to the word count, so that was going to happen either way.
 
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Duraframe300

Arcane
Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
6,395
It would be legit worse since Chris never showed up on Hbomberguy’s Donkey Kong 64 twitch stream to say ‘Trans Rights are Human Rights’ next to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, John Romero, Grant Kirkhope and Chelsea Manning like Josh did! Making Fallout: New Vegas a symbol of trans and LGBTQ activism!!!

No Chris did that already in 2012 on a PAX East Panel.



Fucking Sawyer, lagging nearly 7 years behind.

:troll:
 
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Location
Belém do Pará, Império do Brasil
Sawyer has the ingratiating sycophant perk, he slithered his way into every project effortlessly while Avellone got the scraps.

Feargus and Josh argued so much at Interplay that Feargus told him to go look for work somewhere else after Black Isle folded. While at Midway, Josh applied his autism to figuring out how to get what he wanted from Fearg without angering him. For whatever reason, Chris never could learn or never bothered to learn this skill.

Is it possible to learn this power?
 

Rev

Arcane
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
1,180
I think Sawyer is more attuned to something like Fallout, in which the driving point of the game is not that it's well written or that it has a good story but the fact that you can play how you want, solve quests in multiple ways, create a lot of different kinds of characters that result in different gameplays and other features that focus on roleplaying. At the same time, if he actually manage to make his historical dream rpg at some point, I wouldn't expect it to feature a great narrative, but I would expect lots of roleplay opportunities, the chance of doing things differently based on the PC's build, no essential characters (everyone can be killed is something Sawyer stresses out a lot of times as something important in his games) and also some faction and reputation systems. Also turn-based combat and a classless system.

Avellone on the other hand is more skilled as a writer and better suited for narrative heavy games, but they also tend to be more linear and with less freedom in how you play it. This is true both for P:T and KotOR II: in New Vegas you can decide to go directly to the big city passing through Sloan, it's very difficult because of the deathclaws but you can find a way and do it, in Torment you can't get out of the mortuary and just go to Curst if you don't do the previous steps of the main quest, in NV you can meet House and kill him, in Torment and KotOR II key characters can't be killed before the game allow you to do it, in NV you can do whatever you want with your companions, in KotOR II most of them are imposed on you even if you don't want them. They're two different styles of rpgs, and I'd say that Avellone is better at providing good stories and characters, so he would be a better pick for a narrative rpg like P:T or MotB, but not for something like Fallout.
 
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Nano

Arcane
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Mar 6, 2016
Messages
4,826
Grab the Codex by the pussy Strap Yourselves In Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
Except Avellone proved that he can pander to both storyfags and C&C-fags with Alpha Protocol.
 

Drax

Arcane
Joined
Apr 6, 2013
Messages
10,986
Location
Silver City, Southern Lands
Would a game made by a Chad be better than a game made by an autistic cuck?

Gee, I wonder.
MCA is sadly the furthest thing from a "Chad".

Chris-Avellone-metal.jpg
hqdefault.jpg
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
36,870
There's a misconception that MCA-led projects struggle with deadlines and are too ambitious. KOTOR2 had all that unfinished/cut content because of the verbal agreement fiasco. PS:T was made in roughly 18 months (with a significant portion being pre-production), and he did just fine with his FNV DLCs, which had tight budgets and strict schedules.

It's unlikely that FNV would've had more cut/unfinished content than it already did. MCA has said in interviews that FNV was overscoped and that he wanted downscale it early to make it more polished. As for Ulysses, he was cut by Jason Bergman (Bethesda's producer on the game) early in development due to the word count, so that was going to happen either way.
"I won't go over scope this time."

*writes Ulysses*
*writes Durance and Grieving Mother*
*writes a Wasteland 2 novella that balloons into 4 novellas and a novel*
*writes what's supposed to be a small Pathfinder adventure module that balloons into a 600+ page adventure path*
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Messages
99,999
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Statistically, regardless of the relative qualities of Avellone and Sawyer, the game most likely would not have turned out better. In retrospect Fallout: New Vegas seems like such an unlikely triumph that it can almost be regarded as a fluke. If you went back in time and changed something, the outcome would probably regress to the mean.

It's kind of like getting a really good roll in an RPG, and then loading a saved game from before the fight and equipping a different weapon. The weapon might be an improvement, but you're probably not going to get that roll again.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
Patron
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
13,279
No. Wasn't there a big discussion a few months ago on how Chris thought some things from New Vegas were tasteless, like the rape?
What Chris Avellone says about 'controversial' content in New Vegas 8 years after its release and what Chris Avellone actually would have included as content in New Vegas if he had been Project Director are two different things. :mca:
 

mfkndggrfll

Learned
Shitposter Bethestard
Joined
Mar 21, 2018
Messages
546
A while back, MCA said that both him and Sawyer asked Feargus for the lead role on New Vegas, and it came down to Sawyer asking first.

Imagine if it was given to MCA instead. How do you think it would compare to Sawyer's beloved classic (both in the mainstream and on the Codex)?

Wouldn't have mattered because it was meant to be a low effort cash grab from the start.

The game is so damn empty and devoid of content that no man could have prevented it from being garbage.
 

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