Decline WRPGs have hit rock bottom

[Tyranicon]

I think the future's looking very bright for RPG enjoyers, especially seeing how gamedev tools are easier to use than ever.

We're probably 4-6 years or less away from tiny indies being able to compete with AAA. I mean, arguably they're already doing it, seeing how Manor Lords is allegedly made by 1 dude and it was a top selling game on Steam.

RPGs have always been the arena of weirdly devoted and passionate dudes in a basement. It is not a genre that is usually profitable for larger gamedevs, unless you're Larian apparently.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

The genre is also oversaturated with interchangeable medieval fantasy slop where you're supposed to save the world from the evil overlord again and again and again. Legacy of Kain was already taking the piss out of that cliche back in the 90s and early 2000s. Please, enough. Make crpgs in other genres and with different plots. I now automatically blacklist medieval fantasy because I'm so sick of it.

 

[Paul_cz]

seeing how Manor Lords is allegedly made by 1 dude

Bit of a hoax, he had plenty of externals helping out. But it is still impressive work of course and your point stands.
But, I do not think a game like KCD2 will be doable by small team any time soon. Unless you let your GPT write shitty generic script, you still gotta write thousands of pages of design, dialogue, quests...and script everything.

 

[Tyranicon]

seeing how Manor Lords is allegedly made by 1 dude

Bit of a hoax, he had plenty of externals helping out. But it is still impressive work of course and your point stands.

Yeah, once you have permanent contractors and a big name indie publisher, it starts blurring what's solodev and what's not, especially since the dev doesn't talk about it much. So who knows?

But, I do not think a game like KCD2 will be doable by small team any time soon. Unless you let your GPT write shitty generic script, you still gotta write thousands of pages of design, dialogue, quests...and script everything.

That's what I mean by weirdly devoted. RPG devs are the kind of people who no-life this stuff and enjoy it. I'm speaking from personal experience.

 

[NaturallyCarnivorousSheep]

The genre is also oversaturated with interchangeable medieval fantasy slop where you're supposed to save the world from the evil overlord again and again and again

The "setting problem" is that people seemingly want a different setting but when they get it they hate it and continue buying the cookie cooter quasi sword coast 42069 edition. There's also a space for a few specific other settings(post apo) but that's it.

Inb4 naaaah it doesn't happen. PoE1 is placed in as cliche of a geographic area in that world as they could've. It's sequel uses pirate like setting which did happen in the past(Gothic, Risen) but was never as overplayed. It's also a better game all things considered. It also sold less. Why didn't you guys want the less typical setting when it did show up?

 

[HappyDaddyWow!]

Maturity is realizing that western devs always made shittier games than Japanese devs, on average, since the 80s.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

The genre is also oversaturated with interchangeable medieval fantasy slop where you're supposed to save the world from the evil overlord again and again and again

The "setting problem" is that people seemingly want a different setting but when they get it they hate it and continue buying the cookie cooter quasi sword coast 42069 edition. There's also a space for a few specific other settings(post apo) but that's it.

Inb4 naaaah it doesn't happen. PoE1 is placed in as cliche of a geographic area in that world as they could've. It's sequel uses pirate like setting which did happen in the past(Gothic, Risen) but was never as overplayed. It's also a better game all things considered. It also sold less. Why didn't you guys want the less typical setting when it did show up?

Then the audience has no one to blame other than themselves. Rewarding behaviors you don't like results in devs continuing behaviors you don't like. Who woulda thought?

There's also a space for a few specific other settings(post apo) but that's it.

The creative output is also really weirdly distributed. For postapoc there's stuff that's a derivative ripoff of Fallout, then there's super weird stuff like Death Trash, with no middle ground. The postapoc genre is hugely diverse and ripe for exploration, but the video games don't touch even a fraction of that diversity. It's like the people making these games don't read postapoc fiction or something.

Vampire Hunter D is postapoc and that has gothic vampire castles in space.

Same for other settings like cyberpunk and scifi. These genres have been explored at length in prose fiction and tabletop roleplaying games, especially in ttrpgs where rulebooks and supplements can explain lore that would be unwieldy in prose, but none of that has trickled into the crpgs.

The crpg medium is still firmly stuck in the "copy Baldur's Gate 1 ad nauseum" rut. How are audiences not burned out on this sea of homogeneity?

 

[Damned Registrations]

Part of the problem with the genre stuff is it's often the only selling point in an otherwise bland game. Bad devs churn out games with a single gimmick they hope will make things sell- if it's mechanical, that might be worth a play, but if it's a weird setting with bog standard mechanics, that's significantly worse. People don't get burned out on generic fantasy because they can read other types of fiction in books or whatever. People do get burned out on mechanics because you can't just run off and watch a movie to get your fix of a crazy progression mechanic.

 

[NecroLord]

I now automatically blacklist medieval fantasy because I'm so sick of it.

I don't go so far as to blacklist it, but I do agree that there is way too much medieval fantasy out there.
Why not completely alien and exotic settings?
How about some Antiquity?
The Bronze Age?
Devs really haven't read anything about history and other fantasy books.

 

[JarlFrank]

Why didn't you guys want the less typical setting when it did show up?

I wanted to love PoE2 for its setting but sadly it's just as boring a game as PoE1.

 

[Butter]

Why didn't you guys want the less typical setting when it did show up?

I wanted to love PoE2 for its setting but sadly it's just as boring a game as PoE1.

Ekera! The first game is better.

 

[Paul_cz]

Maturity is realizing that western devs always made shittier games than Japanese devs, on average, since the 80s.

Most of my favourite games are made by slavs, with few (Fallout, Deus Ex, Bloodlines) being made by yanks.

 

[Ash]

Maturity is realizing that western devs always made shittier games than Japanese devs, on average, since the 80s.

It's about 1:1, 50-50, half and half. Or otherwise too close to accurately determine. Tons of absolute shite and solid gold from both. However, since Japan is much smaller and not infected with cuckoldry and soy they probably do have a better track record ratio of good games to bad at least.

 

[Tyranicon]

Maturity is realizing that western devs always made shittier games than Japanese devs, on average, since the 80s.

All I'll say about this is that JRPG fans tend to be a happier and more optimistic bunch, whereas cRPG fans tend to be angry, resentful, and very eager to burn down the industry that makes their games.

Take that as you will.

 

[Vic]

PC = west
console = japs

 

[Ash]

Maturity is realizing that western devs always made shittier games than Japanese devs, on average, since the 80s.

All I'll say about this is that JRPG fans tend to be a happier and more optimistic bunch, whereas cRPG fans tend to be angry, resentful, and very eager to burn down the industry that makes their games.

Take that as you will.

JRPG fans are often weirdos in it for the characters/pure storyfaggots that doesn't give a fuck about anything beyond that, anime dweebs or often just clueless altogether though. Abysmally low standards across the board, look no further than Chrono Trigger often being voted #1. It's not always the case but this does describe the typical JRPG fan. WRPG fans being more commonly dissatisfied indicates higher standards in the player, but I don't think this says anything about the two types of games though and there is plenty shit-eating WRPG fans too. It's just JRPG attracts a certain...type. Like how Bioware attracts a certain type but on a larger scale.

As a fan of both to some extent (RPG is my fav genre but I exclude the fake "RPG" storyfag ones, too anime-cringe laden, or otherwise low quality, which leaves me with 3% of RPGs ever made), I am deeply disappointed with the modern iteration of both.

 

[Tyranicon]

Abysmally low standards across the board

Ignorance is bliss.

Western devs also peaked early, with a relatively small window for greatness, as the Codex top 10 illustrates.

 

[Gregz]

WRPGs are now a vector for injecting DEI programming. Anyone who tries to resist will be extorted into oblivion. Sweet Baby Inc. (AKA Blackrock jews) will torpedo your brand if you don't allow their (((consultants))) to destroy your product at the last minute. That's the current state of this once great (and now completely lame) hobby.

Am I wrong, The Wall?

 

[Ash]

Abysmally low standards across the board

Ignorance is bliss.

Western devs also peaked early, with a relatively small window for greatness, as the Codex top 10 illustrates.

Japs also peaked early. Most of their best RPGs were also two decades ago. please correct me if I am wrong as I am by no means an expert on modern JRPG, but I feel somewhat confident.

 

[Tyranicon]

Japs also peaked early. Most of their best RPGs were also two decades ago. please correct me if I am wrong as I am by no means an expert on modern JRPG, but I feel somewhat confident.

Me neither, probably surprisingly.

But Fromsoft titles and the Persona games seem to both wildly popular and well regarded. And their long-running series don't seem to be suffering the insane degradation that western series do.

I'm sure someone who actually likes JRPGs can point out more.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Maturity is realizing that western devs always made shittier games than Japanese devs, on average, since the 80s.

All I'll say about this is that JRPG fans tend to be a happier and more optimistic bunch, whereas cRPG fans tend to be angry, resentful, and very eager to burn down the industry that makes their games.

Take that as you will.

JRPG fans are often weirdos in it for the characters/pure storyfaggots that doesn't give a fuck about anything beyond that, anime dweebs or often just clueless altogether though. Abysmally low standards across the board, look no further than Chrono Trigger often being voted #1. It's not always the case but this does describe the typical JRPG fan. WRPG fans being more commonly dissatisfied indicates higher standards in the player, but I don't think this says anything about the two types of games though and there is plenty shit-eating WRPG fans too. It's just JRPG attracts a certain...type. Like how Bioware attracts a certain type but on a larger scale.

As a fan of both to some extent (RPG is my fav genre but I exclude the fake "RPG" storyfag ones, too anime-cringe laden, or otherwise low quality, which leaves me with 3% of RPGs ever made), I am deeply disappointed with the modern iteration of both.

The main difference is that most people who grew up playing JRPGs will find titles that try to please them in some way, made by mid to big companies and with reasonable budget. If someone's favorite game is Chrono Trigger and he's mainly interested in colorful adventures of screaming teens he can play Xenoblades, Trials games, Kingdom Hearts, Dragon Quests etc. He's favorite game is FF VII because of the wacky world? There's Nier Automata, Shin Megami Tensei, Resonance of Fate etc. Couldn't get enough of Niggas on a grid ever since he tried Final Fantasy Tactics? They make new Fire Emblem games every other year. Even first person dungeon crawler fans didn't have to wait more than a couple of years between major releases.

Now take western RPGs. What is there to pander to people who liked the first 2 Fallout games that wasn't made by a guerilla team of self-funded zealots. There's Arcanum, Wasteland 2, Wasteland 3 and I'm really stuggling to think of anything else. Before the Original Sin even asking for turn-based combat system seemed unreasonable. Baldur's Gate 3 and it's success showed that WRPG fans are willing to look past a lot of mistakes if the devs appear to at least be trying to capture the magic of the older titles.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

I now automatically blacklist medieval fantasy because I'm so sick of it.

I don't go so far as to blacklist it, but I do agree that there is way too much medieval fantasy out there.
Why not completely alien and exotic settings?
How about some Antiquity?
The Bronze Age?
Devs really haven't read anything about history and other fantasy books.

I don’t literally blacklist it (that’s not even feasible), I just mentally ignore them and don’t play them.

Yeah. There’s loads of historical periods, alternate/parallel histories, future settings, etc. There’s loads and loads of ttrpgs settings to pick from, for example.

Back in the late 90s and early 00s there was a wave of adventure shows trying to cash in on the success of Hercules and Xena. Their settings ranged the gambit of periods. There was a Conan the Barbarian show, Beastmaster, Queen of Swords (basically Lady Zorro), Relic Hunter (basically female Indiana Jones, but actually charming), Jules Verne, Sinbad, etc.

Why are crpg devs so uncreative?

 

[JarlFrank]

Back in the late 90s and early 00s there was a wave of adventure shows trying to cash in on the success of Hercules and Xena. Their settings ranged the gambit of periods. There was a Conan the Barbarian show, Beastmaster, Queen of Swords (basically Lady Zorro), Relic Hunter (basically female Indiana Jones, but actually charming), Jules Verne, Sinbad, etc.

All of these shows were inspired by classic pulp fiction.
Many pen and paper RPG settings are inspired by that too. It's really weird how CRPGs haven't copied more from the pulps, too.
Adventure is such a wide genre, you don't have to narrow yourself down to either high fantasy or post-apoc sci-fi. So much room to be creative...

 

[Cryomancer]

PoE1 is placed in as cliche of a geographic area in that world as they could've. It's sequel uses pirate like setting which did happen in the past(Gothic, Risen) but was never as overplayed.

People didn't like PoE1 because of the Sawyerism there, and din't didn't purchased PoE2 due it, not due the setting. But Morrowind was one of the most-sold OG XBOX games. Elex 1 sold relatively well. Let's be real: unique and interesting settings can't be made in a world infected with Frankfurt Neo-Marxism.

Can you imagine Dark Sun, a desert hellscape ruled by misanthropic genocidal sorcerer kings where most people are slaves? Or Morrowind, full of racism against non-Drow, slavery, noble houses, legal homicide, men and women having different stats, every single high-rank mage being Breton or High Elf, the Wizard who made multiple female clones of himself to be his wives-slaves? Hell, if we get a game set in Menzoberranzan, they will make it "Underground Commiefornia" and ignore everything nasty about that city.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

When I read threads like this I begin to think everyone is a huge fat lard ass that does nothing else and is throwing a tantrum. Good fucking lord; do something else.