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WTF was Viconia Evil in BG3

Roguey

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Could easily do it like Witcher series where everyone can decide which major decisions happened in previous games. And if you didn't want to do much work you can always just remove a character from the game and have a stand-in doing essentially the same thing. e.g. "Viconia was redeemed and is elsewhere, instead here's new drow 95% the same". IIRC TW3 does that a lot where certain decisions just add a note somewhere detailing what that character was doing.
witcher2yourdecisionsi5imm.jpg


It wouldn't have been worth putting in a note that explains how Viconia went the way she did anyway despite having a ToB epilogue.
 

Immortal

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It's not though. BG2 saves are just 2D arrays.
They could of very easily peeled out the values they needed and ignored the rest, if they gave a shit.
The work comes from all the additional scripting required (plus recording alternate dialogue/cinematics). Absolutely not worth it to appeal to the handful of people who still have Throne of Bhaal saves.
Could easily do it like Witcher series where everyone can decide which major decisions happened in previous games. And if you didn't want to do much work you can always just remove a character from the game and have a stand-in doing essentially the same thing. e.g. "Viconia was redeemed and is elsewhere, instead here's new drow 95% the same". IIRC TW3 does that a lot where certain decisions just add a note somewhere detailing what that character was doing.

Yup. It might be a little harder to do in-plot because your character has no reason to know what happened in ToB.. But they could of did something. Anything would be less cringe than stumbling on random drow love notes written by b-list npcs from Salvatore books.
 
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It's not though. BG2 saves are just 2D arrays.
They could of very easily peeled out the values they needed and ignored the rest, if they gave a shit.
The work comes from all the additional scripting required (plus recording alternate dialogue/cinematics). Absolutely not worth it to appeal to the handful of people who still have Throne of Bhaal saves.
Could easily do it like Witcher series where everyone can decide which major decisions happened in previous games. And if you didn't want to do much work you can always just remove a character from the game and have a stand-in doing essentially the same thing. e.g. "Viconia was redeemed and is elsewhere, instead here's new drow 95% the same". IIRC TW3 does that a lot where certain decisions just add a note somewhere detailing what that character was doing.

Yup. It might be a little harder to do in-plot because your character has no reason to know what happened in ToB.. But they could of did something. Anything would be less cringe than stumbling on random drow love notes written by b-list npcs from Salvatore books.
I'd just make it an OOC pre game customization option that new players can unlock on NG+
 

KeAShizuku

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They just threw a few references in there for nostalgia bait. And it has been 20 years most players won't even care.
 

Konjad

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Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Treating BG3 as a part of the series is already a mistake, and I enjoyed BG3 tremendously. In fact, BG2 was already full of bullshit, who the fuck would even take Minsc in BG? I always killed him with Dynaheir to get Edwin. Just like I killed Drizzt for swords. I actually blame BG2 for all the bullshit (including Viconia), it was the most clear decline in writing in Bioware. Cool, I have a castle/sphere/guild but what the fuck happened to characters, why do they always assume the most worthless choices?!
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Yeah, they did her dirty.
Probably would be better if it were a generic NPC Shar Archpriestess instead.
But whatever.

On the other hand, I love the new Jaheira - like her much more than the original.
And Minsc is a fucking looney... which is kind of fitting I guess.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

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On the other hand, I love the new Jaheira - like her much more than the original.
And Minsc is a fucking looney... which is kind of fitting I guess.
Not a coincidence that Jaheira is the third-best-written companion in Baldur's Gate 3, Minsc is the second-best, and Boo is the best.


8gBeNhl.png
 

Alex

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On the other hand, I love the new Jaheira - like her much more than the original.
And Minsc is a fucking looney... which is kind of fitting I guess.
Not a coincidence that Jaheira is the third-best-written companion in Baldur's Gate 3, Minsc is the second-best, and Boo is the best.


8gBeNhl.png

Zed, don't post stuff like this. You will give them ideas... Given what they did with bears, it is just a matter of time before they release a DLC that puts Boo in Lemmiwinks' shoes.
 

Atlantico

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Some of the BG2 endgame powers you get from evil choices are really fucking good.
BG2 was not restricted by TSR's Code of Ethics because they had been acquired by Wizards of the Coast in the interim and abandoned it. Torment wasn't restricted either. BG just had the unfortunate luck of being released in 1998.
TSR was aqcuired by WotC in 1997, while the PC game Baldur's Gate is released in December 1998.

Also you are quoting from the ToB expansion which you claimed wasn't canon anyway to support your claim.

Fundamentally you do not understand what alignment is or means.

Like I said earlier, just because something *can* happen in your play-through doesn't mean it *did*.

Maybe the game wasn't made for you. You're not the target audience. Go back to R*ddit Rogey, you're drunk.
 

Stoned Ape

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BG2's Viconia turned away from Llolth and condemned herself to a terrible death because she couldn't bring herself to sacrifice a baby. She felt guilty because after her brother rescued her from that fate he was subsequently cursed by Llolth into becoming a drider. This is the fundamental core of her character. She is evil but she has something inside her that despises institutions that torment the helpless and is willing to sacrifice her life to stand against them.

BG3's Viconia is fine with abducting a family and torturing their child to force her to worship Shar.

BG's Sarevok thought Bhaal was a fool and wanted to usurp his position.

BG3's Sarevok is Bhaal's pet dog and wants to serve his master in any way he can.

The parts these two characters play in BG3 could easily have been replaced by a generic Shar High Priestess and a generic Bhaal assassin without the story losing anything, neither of them should have returned.
 

kangaxx

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BG2's Viconia turned away from Llolth and condemned herself to a terrible death because she couldn't bring herself to sacrifice a baby. She felt guilty because after her brother rescued her from that fate he was subsequently cursed by Llolth into becoming a drider. This is the fundamental core of her character. She is evil but she has something inside her that despises institutions that torment the helpless and is willing to sacrifice her life to stand against them.

BG3's Viconia is fine with abducting a family and torturing their child to force her to worship Shar.

BG's Sarevok thought Bhaal was a fool and wanted to usurp his position.

BG3's Sarevok is Bhaal's pet dog and wants to serve his master in any way he can.

The parts these two characters play in BG3 could easily have been replaced by a generic Shar High Priestess and a generic Bhaal assassin without the story losing anything, neither of them should have returned.
I agree that they both shouldn't have returned (none of them should have), but you could explain these 'changes' in BG3 as "blackpill" outcomes for both characters. Viconia's goodness snuffed out by reality, Sarevok humiliated and brought to heel.
 

Roguey

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TSR was aqcuired by WotC in 1997, while the PC game Baldur's Gate is released in December 1998.

And they still had to abide by the code. Watch Ed's video.

Also you are quoting from the ToB expansion which you claimed wasn't canon anyway to support your claim.

Obviously certain aspects of Throne of Bhaal are canon. Viconia's redemption isn't one of them.

Maybe the game wasn't made for you. You're not the target audience. Go back to R*ddit Rogey, you're drunk.

Which game?
 

mondblut

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BG2's Viconia turned away from Llolth and condemned herself to a terrible death because she couldn't bring herself to sacrifice a baby. She felt guilty because after her brother rescued her from that fate he was subsequently cursed by Llolth into becoming a drider. This is the fundamental core of her character. She is evil but she has something inside her that despises institutions that torment the helpless and is willing to sacrifice her life to stand against them.

BG3's Viconia is fine with abducting a family and torturing their child to force her to worship Shar.

BG's Sarevok thought Bhaal was a fool and wanted to usurp his position.

BG3's Sarevok is Bhaal's pet dog and wants to serve his master in any way he can.

The parts these two characters play in BG3 could easily have been replaced by a generic Shar High Priestess and a generic Bhaal assassin without the story losing anything, neither of them should have returned.

Sorry about your waifu (and Viconia too, I suppose), but some stories do not have a happy ending. Deal with it.
 

Stoned Ape

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BG2's Viconia turned away from Llolth and condemned herself to a terrible death because she couldn't bring herself to sacrifice a baby. She felt guilty because after her brother rescued her from that fate he was subsequently cursed by Llolth into becoming a drider. This is the fundamental core of her character. She is evil but she has something inside her that despises institutions that torment the helpless and is willing to sacrifice her life to stand against them.

BG3's Viconia is fine with abducting a family and torturing their child to force her to worship Shar.

BG's Sarevok thought Bhaal was a fool and wanted to usurp his position.

BG3's Sarevok is Bhaal's pet dog and wants to serve his master in any way he can.

The parts these two characters play in BG3 could easily have been replaced by a generic Shar High Priestess and a generic Bhaal assassin without the story losing anything, neither of them should have returned.

Sorry about your waifu (and Viconia too, I suppose), but some stories do not have a happy ending. Deal with it.
I don't care about romance in video games, but I do enjoy character development and think it is pretty shit when established characters motivations are re-conned for no purpose.
 

Stoned Ape

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established characters motivations are re-conned
Retconned by whom? Isn't Viconia in BG3 character accurate to her in Minsc's and Boo's Journal of Villainy, which Wizards of the Coast wrote and is canonical?
WOTC and everyone who works for them are incompetent cunts. Irenicus and Bodhi still being alive is even shittier that the retcons to Sarevok and Viconia.
 

whydoibother

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established characters motivations are re-conned
Retconned by whom? Isn't Viconia in BG3 character accurate to her in Minsc's and Boo's Journal of Villainy, which Wizards of the Coast wrote and is canonical?
WOTC and everyone who works for them are incompetent cunts. Irenicus and Bodhi still being alive is even shittier that the retcons to Sarevok and Viconia.
Perhaps, but its not a Baldur's Gate 3 issue. Its a Wizards of the Coast issue.
If anything, Larian were probably obligated to follow certain Wizards lore decisions.
 

Stoned Ape

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established characters motivations are re-conned
Retconned by whom? Isn't Viconia in BG3 character accurate to her in Minsc's and Boo's Journal of Villainy, which Wizards of the Coast wrote and is canonical?
WOTC and everyone who works for them are incompetent cunts. Irenicus and Bodhi still being alive is even shittier that the retcons to Sarevok and Viconia.
Perhaps, but its not a Baldur's Gate 3 issue. Its a Wizards of the Coast issue.
If anything, Larian were probably obligated to follow certain Wizards lore decisions.
Just don't feature them in BG3, problem solved.
 

Atlantico

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And they still had to abide by the code. Watch Ed's video.
I take my previous comment back, you're more like a Wikipedia editor. So because you can quote a Codex member's Youtube video, that doesn't make it so — and you based your entire reasoning on that "the code" didn't change until after TSR was sold.

Even so I see you have the entire R*ddit brigade on your side, so why not both?

Obviously certain aspects of Throne of Bhaal are canon. Viconia's redemption isn't one of them.
The obvious thing is that canon is just whatever randumb things the BG3 B*lgians though was cool/soy.

Which game?
I was summing up your position itt — as in, if you have a complaint, too bad, this game isn't made for you.

The main point is that you don't understand alignments, or their purpose. Then again, neither do most people, because they're looking at alignments as part of the stats, instead of a role-playing guide.
 

Roguey

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I take my previous comment back, you're more like a Wikipedia editor. So because you can quote a Codex member's Youtube video, that doesn't make it so — and you based your entire reasoning on that "the code" didn't change until after TSR was sold.
Actual Bioware employees: Our content was constained by TSR's code of ethics.

You: But the company was sold before the game shipped so that's impossible!

World doesn't work based on how you think things should be.
 

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