X-Rebirth

[Zarniwoop]

To be fair, the game could do with a bit of dumbing down, as much as I liked the predecessor. Especially if dumbing down means providing better menus and functions.

When has dumbing down EVER meant "better menus?" At best it will mean simpler menus meaning a lot of functionality ripped out. So, worse not better. One game start? Yeah, not console like at all. Halp mommy, I can't make decishunz...

Anyways, not my point. I'm more concerned about the universe being dumbed down (few sectors and whatnot), and jumpdrives being only for capital ships. Not to be a Skyway here, but exploring the huge universe was a big part of the X series' appeal. Not to mention having to traipse through it at a snail's pace when you need to get somewhere isn't my idea of fun.

 

[Spectacle]

To be fair, the game could do with a bit of dumbing down, as much as I liked the predecessor. Especially if dumbing down means providing better menus and functions.

When has dumbing down EVER meant "better menus?" At best it will mean simpler menus meaning a lot of functionality ripped out. So, worse not better. One game start? Yeah, not console like at all. Halp mommy, I can't make decishunz...

Anyways, not my point. I'm more concerned about the universe being dumbed down (few sectors and whatnot), and jumpdrives being only for capital ships. Not to be a Skyway here, but exploring the huge universe was a big part of the X series' appeal. Not to mention having to traipse through it at a snail's pace when you need to get somewhere isn't my idea of fun.

Your reading comprehension skill is definitely "dumbed down"

 

[trym88]

To be fair, the game could do with a bit of dumbing down, as much as I liked the predecessor. Especially if dumbing down means providing better menus and functions.

When has dumbing down EVER meant "better menus?" At best it will mean simpler menus meaning a lot of functionality ripped out. So, worse not better. One game start? Yeah, not console like at all. Halp mommy, I can't make decishunz...

Anyways, not my point. I'm more concerned about the universe being dumbed down (few sectors and whatnot), and jumpdrives being only for capital ships. Not to be a Skyway here, but exploring the huge universe was a big part of the X series' appeal. Not to mention having to traipse through it at a snail's pace when you need to get somewhere isn't my idea of fun.

Zarni... before bitching about a game, please make sure to inform urself properly, thx...

 

[Turjan]

When has dumbing down EVER meant "better menus?" At best it will mean simpler menus meaning a lot of functionality ripped out. So, worse not better. One game start? Yeah, not console like at all. Halp mommy, I can't make decishunz...

Better menus means stuff like sorting them more logical and make similar functions follow similar menu steps, something that needed a throrough cleanup. And as far as game starts are concerned, really? In X3, making a different game start meant choosing a different start sector, a different profile pic for you, setting faction relations and money differently and, if they felt generous, set a few triggers for special events. That's all nice and dandy, but not exactly overly difficult. Plus, it doesn't fit the game start they have planned for X:Rebirth.

Anyways, not my point. I'm more concerned about the universe being dumbed down (few sectors and whatnot), and jumpdrives being only for capital ships. Not to be a Skyway here, but exploring the huge universe was a big part of the X series' appeal. Not to mention having to traipse through it at a snail's pace when you need to get somewhere isn't my idea of fun.

What is it with sci-fi fans and calculating the contents of their games in number of suns and cubic parsecs (although with the former X-games, a few cubic kilometers were sufficient)? In principle, you should already note how ridiculous such an approach is by looking at X3:TC with gate sectors and orbital accelerator sectors. The latter were larger although they altogether represented a much smaller piece of space. A game's size is defined by how much you have to look at and how much you can do there, not by how far the fictitious universe allegedly stretches.

Of course, that doesn't mean that X:Rebirth may not feel smaller than the predecessor, as I don't know exactly what to expect, but this kind of argumentation is rather ridiculous, given the changed representation of space.

By the way, jumpdrives for capital ships only is an excellent change. That's not dumbing down, but giving the game a new goal to go for.

 

[mikaelis]

It was fucking beaten to death that fewer star systems does not mean smaller universe. They just got rid of ridiculous 100x100x100 km2 cubes and went more believable way (huge systems with hierarchical approach, i.e., star system with dozen of clusters interconnected with superhighways and with each cluster containing multiple zones - of former sector size).

All the existing mechanics is still there, unless they are lying straight into your face.

Plus some nice new features like localised damage,meaningful ship upgrades etc.

As for "one ship only", I don't give a fuck, I was never really switching too often between my ships. Usually it was M3 Nova and some nice M6 Corvette. If they manage to make upgrades work well, then I am more than happy.

 

[Zewp]

My main gripe is still with only being able to pilot one ship. I loved being able to jump between any ship in my fleet in X3, so not being able to do that really bums me out.

 

[mikaelis]

I can understand that. Many players were doing just that. I suspect the complexity (hopefully) of new upgrade system, plus story-related issues (your co-pilot etc.) made them abandon this feature from the release date.

On the other hand, it was specified that modding friendliness and easiness is as important as ever, so I expect the community to do soething about it fairly quick. Also, as I mentioned before, Egosoft said they will be adding new features continuously for free in the future patches, so piloting other ships might be in at some point in the future.

 

[Turjan]

My main gripe is still with only being able to pilot one ship. I loved being able to jump between any ship in my fleet in X3, so not being able to do that really bums me out.

In principle, remote controlling other ships should look pretty much the same as flying those ships did in X3, as this means in both cases that there's no cockpit. There isn't really any other practical difference than the point that you can't die in a remote controlled ship. This "flying one ship" just means that there is one where you can run around in and sit in a chair and goof around.

 

[mikaelis]

My main gripe is still with only being able to pilot one ship. I loved being able to jump between any ship in my fleet in X3, so not being able to do that really bums me out.

In principle, remote controlling other ships should look pretty much the same as flying those ships did in X3, as this means in both cases that there's no cockpit. There isn't really any other practical difference than the point that you can't die in a remote controlled ship. This "flying one ship" just means that there is one where you can run around in and sit in a chair and goof around.

Are you sure that's the case? There's been these sort of rumors, but was never confirmed, as far as I know. To my knowledge, as it is now, you can only remote-control drones, which can specialize, e.g., spying fast drone, or more aggressive with bulkier weapons. In essence, they may replace M5 and M4 in terms of "feeling", but they will just be drones. You can't fly other ships that are meant to be ships (like your Albion Skunk for example).

 

[Turjan]

Are you sure that's the case? There's been these sort of rumors, but was never confirmed, as far as I know. To my knowledge, as it is now, you can only remote-control drones, which can specialize, e.g., spying fast drone, or more aggressive with bulkier weapons. In essence, they may replace M5 and M4 in terms of "feeling", but they will just be drones. You can't fly other ships that are meant to be ships (like your Albion Skunk for example).

Hmm, maybe I was a bit too vague. I think you have that right in the sense that drones will be the ones you fly in remote control view. I understood drones replace fighter vehicles (and some of the freighter functions), and that's about all I had fun flying myself (with the exception of M6 like the Springblossom, which flew like a fighter anyway). I flew bigger ships in third person view or remotely controlled them, which basically means that, as far as my own gaming habits in X3 are concerned, everything seems to stay pretty much the same. I will just get that M6 size ship with a full cockpit in addition, and we will see how that will turn out. I'm cautiously optimistic is all I say.

 

[mikaelis]

Same here. I need personal control of nothing more than M6 class ship. If it is fully upgradable according to your play style, that can only be a bonus. We will see about the rest.

 

[Metro]

Or you mean less micromanagement? In that case, it looks like it will stay true to its predecessors (you can still own an armada, built stations, trade - but in somewhat different manner - only one ship to fly, but heavily tunable).

This is what I mean. The current X games are about as fun as watching paint dry. I appreciate an open universe where you can trade, build a fleet, raid other ships, etc. but I don't want to do that by staring at menus 99% of the time.

To be fair, the game could do with a bit of dumbing down, as much as I liked the predecessor. Especially if dumbing down means providing better menus and functions.

Exactly.

 

[DefJam101]

Streamlining the interface so that you can control the game in a timely manner isn't dumbing down. These games have survived and always will survive on mods; they should focus on general playability and ease of use instead of clunky feature creep.

oh wait, that's exactly what they're doing

 

[mikaelis]

This is what I mean. The current X games are about as fun as watching paint dry. I appreciate an open universe where you can trade, build a fleet, raid other ships, etc. but I don't want to do that by staring at menus 99% of the time.

It seems to be their most abused slogan with X-Rebirth. Allegedly, they are doing it more user friendly, less menus and so on. If they succeed is another matter.

Though, I must say that I never found UI of X games overcomplicated. The biggest problem was that as I grew older I realized that everything in this game is extremely slow. Too slow for my age . You know, like earning your first million, setting up first factory and waiting ages when it will start to turn profits. Then setting up a chain of factories investing all your money and waiting 5x more to turn profit. Hell, even Universal Trader, which was in the beginning considered almost a cheat (because it earned money so much faster than factories) takes decent amount of time to run on high profits.
So you do some shooting in the meantime, but that soon becomes tedious. Though at least it is much faster way of earning money (selling captured ships). Rinse and repeat until you earn yourself your first destroyer! And then... you've had enough.

I really hope they will address this problem. The easiest way would be to offer completely new game in the beginning with interesting story-driven campaign. And aftewards, they can leave the players in a sandbox similar to previous games to grow their empires in an old fashioned-way (for those who still have time and patience).

 

[Turjan]

The tedium had in part to do with being forced to hunt for costly software updates for your first ship. Even later, equipping a fleet of freighters of fighters needed lots of flying/jumping around and buying stuff, one by one. It's meant to extend the start-up time, but after a while, it got a bit of a nuisance. I got around it by doing different things all the time. A bit more automation would do wonders to my patience, though.

The "big ship" fleet approach seemed rather pointless to me. There was no way to decisively win (except during tasks), whcih turned the effort useless to me. This seems to have been fixed now, though, as they promised that you can defeat a faction for good, if you are so inclined.

 

[Zewp]

This is what I mean. The current X games are about as fun as watching paint dry. I appreciate an open universe where you can trade, build a fleet, raid other ships, etc. but I don't want to do that by staring at menus 99% of the time.

I built a trading empire and I certainly didn't spend close to even half my time looking at menus. That said, if you don't enjoy the micromanagement, maybe the X series just isn't for you? The X series has always been more about micromanagement than any other space sim and that's one of the reasons I'll play it over anything else.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Do X games usually ship with a extensive single player story driven campaign or are they straight up sandbox games? I like my space sims to be more like Freelancer/IW, with freedom but also a story to back it up.

 

[Stereotypical Villain]

Streamlining the interface so that you can control the game in a timely manner isn't dumbing down. These games have survived and always will survive on mods; they should focus on general playability and ease of use instead of clunky feature creep.

oh wait, that's exactly what they're doing

Welcome back to the cockdex.

 

[Gord]

Do X games usually ship with a extensive single player story driven campaign or are they straight up sandbox games? I like my space sims to be more like Freelancer/IW, with freedom but also a story to back it up.

From what I remember about the story of those I played, you have been relatively free in how you approached the games.
You start out with some crap ship and a story hook, but there was nothing preventing you from ignoring the story completely.
If you followed it, at various points you were given the advice to build up your ressources a bit before continuing (during which periods nothing relevant to the story would happen).

 

[Turjan]

Do X games usually ship with a extensive single player story driven campaign or are they straight up sandbox games? I like my space sims to be more like Freelancer/IW, with freedom but also a story to back it up.

It depends a bit on the iteration. In X2, the story was a bit more important. In X3: Reunion, it was still noticeable. In X3: TC, the story was more or less just a sequence of missions in your sandbox game. Also, it wasn't one story, but four, some of them available later, depending on what you did in the universe. As Gord said, the story was completely skippable, although rewards sometimes change the universe, so you may want to finish it, anyway. Also, you have unlimited time between missions.

 

[Zarniwoop]

OK, time to address some of the bullshit in this thread.

When has dumbing down EVER meant "better menus?" At best it will mean simpler menus meaning a lot of functionality ripped out. So, worse not better. One game start? Yeah, not console like at all. Halp mommy, I can't make decishunz...

Better menus means stuff like sorting them more logical and make similar functions follow similar menu steps, something that needed a throrough cleanup.

Agreed. What I'm saying is when has that ever happened? Making things more logical or easier to use is good, as long as it can still do everything you need. What usually happens though is they take out stuff you do need and make it for morans, thus removing a lot of the strategic depth that made the X-series fun.

And as far as game starts are concerned, really? In X3, making a different game start meant choosing a different start sector, a different profile pic for you, setting faction relations and money differently and, if they felt generous, set a few triggers for special events. That's all nice and dandy, but not exactly overly difficult. Plus, it doesn't fit the game start they have planned for X:Rebirth.

Exactly. It's dead simple to implement, why didn't they do it? Doesn't fit the game start? Fuck that, many of the starts in X3 have story mode completely disabled, I'm sure they could have done that. What made the different starts good is it allowed you to choose what would help you start up easier based on your play style and basically added a layer of difficulty control. Starting in one puny M5 would mean a hell of a lot of grinding more than starting with a decent sized freighter, before you could actually attempt some story missions. I guess it's a bit harder to do with herp derp only one pilotable ship though. Maybe they could change the customisations of your ship based on the start you chose, who knows.

What is it with sci-fi fans and calculating the contents of their games in number of suns and cubic parsecs (although with the former X-games, a few cubic kilometers were sufficient)? In principle, you should already note how ridiculous such an approach is by looking at X3:TC with gate sectors and orbital accelerator sectors. The latter were larger although they altogether represented a much smaller piece of space. A game's size is defined by how much you have to look at and how much you can do there, not by how far the fictitious universe allegedly stretches.

Yeah, first off, a few km³ was never sufficient, I always said it was retarded, as are the super slow speeds of the ships. But that's not the issue here. The fact is the X-universe is an established universe, laid down in 5 (or 6 if you consider X-tension) games, however tiny it might have been. Now they are fucking with that universe by completely changing everything, making sectors bigger and fewer of them but it's still supposed to be the X-universe. It's like if the next Batman game is suddenly set in Miami in the daylight, only they don't call it Miami, they still call it Gotham.

By the way, jumpdrives for capital ships only is an excellent change. That's not dumbing down, but giving the game a new goal to go for.

Yeah, enjoy your "new goal" when an armada of pirates/Xenons/New Mystery Enemy #4 pounces on your slow and almost unarmed freighter/universe trader. Have fun sending it at a snail's pace to the nearest carrier (assuming you have some which for the majority of the game, you won't), and seeing it disappear off your map a few seconds later because "lolllolololollolollololo no jump drives for you mister". Then have fun busting your balls with missions so you can afford another one with all its necessary upgrades and spending ages leveling up the pilot so he can make good money, only for the same thing to happen shortly thereafter. Or have even more fun if that helpless ship without a jumpdrive is the one you happen to be in. Totally not retarded or frustrating.

 

[Turjan]

OK, time to address some of the bullshit in this thread.

Yours?

Exactly. It's dead simple to implement, why didn't they do it?

They already said they will patch more in . Like they did in X3.

Yeah, first off, a few km³ was never sufficient, I always said it was retarded, as are the super slow speeds of the ships. But that's not the issue here. The fact is the X-universe is an established universe, laid down in 5 (or 6 if you consider X-tension) games, however tiny it might have been. Now they are fucking with that universe by completely changing everything, making sectors bigger and fewer of them but it's still supposed to be the X-universe. It's like if the next Batman game is suddenly set in Miami in the daylight, only they don't call it Miami, they still call it Gotham.

:shrug: I know the old X universe inside out. I know which of the few stations in which sector sells what. It's time to move on and present something new. I can't tell you whether they will succeed, but I'm fine with change. The number of iconic places in the old X universe were few and far between, and most was just copypasta once stirred over. I had a few favorite sectors, but I don't really know how you want to transfer this to the new concept. Sure, it would be nice if every sector in the old X3 would become the size of Terran space in that game (that's basically what keeping the old universe would amount to), but that's an unrealistic goal. I can only hope they succeed with creating new iconic places.

Yeah, enjoy your "new goal" when an armada of pirates/Xenons/New Mystery Enemy #4 pounces on your slow and almost unarmed freighter/universe trader. Have fun sending it at a snail's pace to the nearest carrier (assuming you have some which for the majority of the game, you won't), and seeing it disappear off your map a few seconds later because "lolllolololollolollololo no jump drives for you mister". Then have fun busting your balls with missions so you can afford another one with all its necessary upgrades and spending ages leveling up the pilot so he can make good money, only for the same thing to happen shortly thereafter. Or have even more fun if that helpless ship without a jumpdrive is the one you happen to be in. Totally not retarded or frustrating.

Cool story, bro. If I understood it correctly, you won't own any freighters. While this may suck donkey balls, I'll wait and see. Like the other X games, I expect this to be a rough ride at release. Let's hope they will develop this to something enticing.

 

[Space Satan]

The fact is the X-universe is an established universe, laid down in 5 (or 6 if you consider X-tension) games, however tiny it might have been. Now they are fucking with that universe by completely changing everything, making sectors bigger and fewer of them but it's still supposed to be the X-universe. It's like if the next Batman game is suddenly set in Miami in the daylight, only they don't call it Miami, they still call it Gotham.

It's THEIR universe, they can change it as they see fit. Devs decided to change things they think failed to deliver. Because previous 50 cubes were boring shit, SATA was insanely dumb, trade was boring and slow, combat lacked tactics and meveuver aspects, featuring only firepower.
So far their changes are completely positive for me due to adressing most annoying aspects of previous games, with the exception of one ship only, but I rarely changed in the original so I can live with that.

 

[Thane Solus]

also Elite Dangerous can be interesting too. So 3 decent "space sims" in the next 2-3 years. Thats is an incline

As for one main ship, its clearly made like that because they put a lot of work in ship hud and ship interiors, so that will take a lot of time to make for all the ships, but i think they will release DLC/Addons with more ships if they are smart.

Waaagh?!

 

[Space Satan]