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X-COM XCOM 2 + War of the Chosen Expansion Thread

Jasede

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
Yeah, but don't feel bad, L/I is hard for everyone.
But that guy? He mastered Long War I/I, the one that comes with a big fat warning it's not meant to be winnable. He's been streaming Nu and Old XCOM for a long time. He's basically just a prodigy. He was the one who first mentioned that L/I was too easy, especially compared to I/I with its 100% accurate (pretty much) Thin Men that you either meta-gamed on council missions in vanilla or simply got slaughtered by.
 

ArchAngel

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Nah, he is just one of the more known players. I been watching a russian that lives in Israel stream for a long while and I think he was first to finish Long War in Xcom EW. Afterwards he played LW with lots of second wave options so to make it harder on himself.
 

Jasede

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
If you save and reload (even on Ironman) you can fix the LoS problem. (The one where the indicator says you will have a shot, you move, and then it doesn't. Once you reload you will have a shot.)

Haven't heard or encountered or seen those other bugs.
 

Cyberarmy

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Divinity: Original Sin 2
I was talking about snaketits pulling my poor sniper from behind "2" walls or advents firing reaction shots behind hills, trains.
Zombie bugs are funny. Sectoids zombify your spend mimic beacon... then you "kill" it because you can't get to sectoid somehow and boom, squad chain panics...
Teleportation bugs are mostly about codex and avatars, they use teleport but remain in the same place. Not happens often but still annoying.
 

veevoir

Klytus, I'm bored
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How fast does Avaturd fill up anyway? 1 pip per month, or does it get faster the more time has passed?

The most important part about avaturd - blowing up facility delays building of the next one. Dunno if blacksite counts. I allowed my counter to fill up, created a network of resistance to reach all facilities and blew them up all within a wek or so.

12+ weeks of no avaturd progress :smug:
 

veevoir

Klytus, I'm bored
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An interesting mod appeared - once you invent something on proving grounds it is buildable for elerium core + supplies.
Also new tiles started to pop up, this game will be great in few months after patching and thorough modding.
 

ArchAngel

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Only mod that changes gameplay I am interested in is one that will bring this game closer to original Xcom. Otherwise I will play it once more on L/I once its bugs are fixed with some mods that help with information only (like alien hp being displayed as numbers) and wait for Xenonauts 2.
 

Bliblablubb

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So I restarted the whole shit and this time the RNG likes me a LOT more (read: it's fair-ish). Enemies actually occasionaly miss my goons now, while 80%+ hit chances mean I hit most of the time. Guess something really bugged out on my first attempt.
Build the gorilla cage for the extra squadmate first and ignored magnetic weapons, now I am finally expanding and making progress! Background music in the Avenger has already changed to the 2nd act music it seems, I hope I didn't trigger some impending doom by interrogating the 'dex and revealing that site too early. I am always suspicious about hidden triggers...
Turns out the missions scale to your level tho. :decline: Since I waited a while before starting the first blacksite, enemies had turned into Mootons and a Codex, with a second Mooton pod adding from a patrol. Too my big surprise, I managed to kill them all with only one minor wound on Andheira, the sacricificial lamb token rookie. Yeah, I know I suck...

Codexi are just adorable when flashbanged. :hug:

No seriously, the most important tip about the tacticool part of the game is: bring flashbangs! Even better, bring 2 grenadiers with flashy bangs and double grenade use. It almost feels like cheating that way, when you stun a whole pod for 2 turns.

And yeah, a sword ranger is a huge bringer of fun at that early stage, too bad the game doesn't have some horriburu engrish voice set for him. The pretty princess has more kills than the rest of the Kriticool Kodex Konsensus squad together...
 

ArchAngel

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Turns out the missions scale to your level tho. :decline: Since I waited a while before starting the first blacksite, enemies had turned into Mootons and a Codex, with a second Mooton pod adding from a patrol. Too my big surprise, I managed to kill them all with only one minor wound on Andheira, the sacricificial lamb token rookie. Yeah, I know I suck...
There is nothing decline about this. These are not random bandits on road with Daedric gear.. Elders see your resistance becoming a real nuisance so they upgrade the troops at important sites.
 

veevoir

Klytus, I'm bored
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Only mod that changes gameplay I am interested in is one that will bring this game closer to original Xcom. Otherwise I will play it once more on L/I once its bugs are fixed with some mods that help with information only (like alien hp being displayed as numbers) and wait for Xenonauts 2.

Well, there is already a no free move mod..
But I'll tell you that, browsing about 900 mods on steam is a pain. Some of them are great though.
 

Galdred

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Only mod that changes gameplay I am interested in is one that will bring this game closer to original Xcom. Otherwise I will play it once more on L/I once its bugs are fixed with some mods that help with information only (like alien hp being displayed as numbers) and wait for Xenonauts 2.
The game could definitely use a better UI. Not being able to see LoS from one tile to another (I know you can see whether you will see each enemy or not from a tile, but it doesn't work if you plan to lob a grenade somewhere, or if you need LoS to an objective) is a real pain, as is not knowing what will be your chances to hit and to crit before making the move.
 

Jimmious

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Wouldn't all these be a tad bit too much information? I mean if you know everything before each move why would you ever take anything else that the optimal choice?
 

Bliblablubb

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There is nothing decline about this. These are not random bandits on road with Daedric gear.. Elders see your resistance becoming a real nuisance so they upgrade the troops at important sites.

But I hadn't done anything yet to warrant it, less missions than on the first try. Plus they had no way of knowing I would waltz into their supersecret smoothy factory.

EDIT: Ah wait, I did the blacksite after torturing the Codex. Welp, guess that was the trigger I expected to happen. Should have listened to my subconciousness screaming not to rush through story missions...

Wouldn't all these be a tad bit too much information? I mean if you know everything before each move why would you ever take anything else that the optimal choice?
The AI certainly knows and probably exploits it on higher difficulties. So it's more of a question how much of a disadvantage you want. Jagged Alliance had LoS indicator as well IIRC, but I rarely used it. I didn't notice it as much of a problem in this game so far, and lowered grenade ranges behind high cover is a bug it seems.
Seeing 2hit chances BEFORE you go somewhere is definitely too much tho. When in doubt, lob a grenade.
 

ArchAngel

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Only mod that changes gameplay I am interested in is one that will bring this game closer to original Xcom. Otherwise I will play it once more on L/I once its bugs are fixed with some mods that help with information only (like alien hp being displayed as numbers) and wait for Xenonauts 2.

Well, there is already a no free move mod..
But I'll tell you that, browsing about 900 mods on steam is a pain. Some of them are great though.
I don't want no free move, I want them to run out of darkness on their turn into cover and shoot at my guys. I want aliens to react to gunfire within certain range. I want alien groups on maps whose sole purpose is to wait until other aliens survive until their turn with sight to your troops and then start moving towards that position and join the fight if you are still there (simulate surviving aliens calling for help).
Free move is just a "hotfix" for lack of proper AI and gameplay.
Firaxis said mods tools are good, so I hope this can be done eventually.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/02/24/xcom-2-too-hard/

XCOM 2 Was Made More Difficult Late In Development: “There Were Definitely Moments Of ‘Is This Too Much?'”

johndead.jpg


XCOM 2 was made significantly more difficult late in its development cycle after playtesting suggested it was too easy, says the game’s lead designer. “I remember saying ‘you know what, we’re going to make the game a lot harder. We’re going to go back and make the game a lot harder on every level, because this game is not engaging people the way it should,'” Firaxis’ Jake Solomon told RPS. “Of course it triggered a fairly mad rush to balance things out, but I think when the game got more difficult then you started to see people engaging, you felt that spark of life.”

However, he acknowledged that some players might be struggling with the game as a result. “There were definitely moments of ‘is this too much?’ and how do we cater to people that maybe don’t want that experience?”

Solomon also felt that the presentation of the game’s difficulty settings might be to blame for this frustration. “I made a mistake, I think, by calling the lowest difficulty Rookie”.


“The difficulty’s actually one of those things that can be traced to a particular conversation pretty late – very late, actually – in development,” project lead Solomon revealed in an interview to be published in full tomorrow.

“I had been pushing the mantra for a long time that we need to make Normal or Veteran difficulty basically an ‘I want to see the cinematics’ mode, an ‘I want to see the story’ mode, and the player can get through it and it shouldn’t be that difficult. But very, very late in development all the team was playing the game and they were coming back saying “yeah… it’s fun. But it’s pretty easy.” And I started to get kinda worried.

“On the one hand you’ve got all these developers who are super-hardcore XCOM players, but then on the other hand I was ‘if we don’t make the game hard, a lot of the design systems don’t engage.’ If the player isn’t put under pressure, then on the strategy layer a lot of things don’t kick in. The player just doesn’t have to engage with the systems.

xhard1.jpg


“Let’s say the cost of recruits – that’s a very small example, but there are a lot of things where the player was just breezing through the game. So I remember thinking ‘wow, actually this game would be improved if everybody had a much more challenging time of things.'”

Solomon acknowledged that XCOM “is definitely more difficult” than its predecessor XCOM: Enemy Unknown, but felt that some criticisms of its challenge stemmed from how players approached the game.

“Some of them think that the right way to play is to beat the mission without losing anybody,” said Solomon. “That’s fine, it’s certainly fine to think that’s the way you want to play the game, but that I think has led to some frustration in people if they view XCOM as a puzzle – that there is an optimal path so that if you do things right nobody dies. XCOM is not actually a puzzle, it has all these much more unpredictable elements to it. There are cases where it’s difficult to imagine getting through a mission without somebody dying.”

“Obviously some people respond really positively to the difficulty and others say ‘it’s too much’, and that’s something we’re thinking about. Personally as a designer, my experience is that all feedback is factual, so when you do hear feedback like that my instinct is not to say ‘you are incorrect.’ My reaction is always to say ‘ok, does that have to be at odds with the other people who are enjoying the difficulty, and if not, how do we find a way to make both people happy?'”

The base-management aspect of the game has been singled out by some as particularly unforgiving, with its high costs and apparent hard choices related to unlocks and upgrades. “If you’re not spending more than you’re bringing in… it’s a standard strategy design, it’s in XCOM particularly but Sid [Meier] does this too. You give the player five options, all of which seem viable and seem cool and seem necessary, but you only let them pick one. Then by the time they buy that one, we’ve added two more which are also cool. You’re trying to offer the player things that are all beneficial things that the player wants, they just can’t afford all of them at once.”

xhard2.jpg


“We had a very big audience for Enemy Unknown, and it’s a strategy game. And you’ve got to assume that a really big portion of your audience is gonna come back and they’re going to be familiar with Enemy Unknown. You couldn’t possibly just give people the same difficulty as Enemy Unknown if they’re experienced with the product, but at the same time how do you cater to people who have never played an XCOM game?”

The concerns some have expressed about the game’s challenge (and, for the record, this correspondent does not share those concerns) may stem from how its difficulty settings were communicated. “I made a mistake, I think, by calling the lowest difficulty Rookie,” admitted Solomon.

“I should probably have put in a fake difficulty below the lowest difficulty. As I get older I give less of a shit about my ego as I play games, but there is something about clicking on the bottom difficulty in a game that purportedly is about challenge. I think that maybe that is a hard pill for people to swallow. ‘I’m not going to take the easy way out’, but then I called it ‘Rookie’ which is, y’know. All these other difficulties have awesome names, and then you’ve got that… ”

“Actually, after that I realised that why on Earth did we do only four difficulty levels? Civilziation has six or something like that. We just need more difficulty levels, that’s what it is. There’s nothing like coming up with the answers after you ship. Genius at work here, people!”

Our full interview with Jake Solomon, in which he also discusses its links to the original X-COM games, its move towards more story and its art and tactical design, will be published tomorrow.
 

ArchAngel

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I hope they add one more difficulty at the bottom and another at the top. The one at top makes all enemies have 50% resistance to explosives and Psi attacks :D
 

veevoir

Klytus, I'm bored
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But I'll tell you that, browsing about 900 mods on steam is a pain. Some of them are great though.
You're not kidding. Steam Workshop needs a one-click "hide this mod forever" button so I can discard 20,000 Jennifer Aniston voice packs.

Uggh, voicepacks. Then again... http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=627110990 :incline:


Makes me hope for a mod that adds more actions to game and rebalances action point cost of skills etc.. so actual APs ;)


EDIT: Ahahaha, I knew this will happen sooner or later, sucide vests: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=624820879
 
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Zeriel

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dukeofwhales

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Nov 13, 2013
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The problem with "being okay with losing someone" is it makes the rest of the mission harder increaing the risk of a squad wipe. If you get careless/unlucky and lose someone at the start of a mission then there's a good chance you'll lose more just because you have less actions. Having to wipe out or disable pods on the turn you activate them frequently becomes unfeasible if you lose a soldier as encounters are balanced for a full squad. And this is true even though the game cheats in your favour. The game never really encourages you to bail if things are going badly, either, which is often the optimum thing to do (other than save scumming).

XCOM2 does have a really bad snowball effect too, the fact that Venteran is a bit too easy meant I had a team of supersoldiers after the first couple of months and would never lose people, but I'm struggling in commander (because I am bad at games). That was true for EW too, but the increased deadliness of the aliens seems to highlight it.

I like the timer mechanic but I do miss the meld-style missions where beating the timer was good but not essential, and the more interesting bomb diffusal missions, and I would expect them to come back with the inevitable expansion. Move-overwatch is boring but I understand the timer frustration given the pod mechanic means you're at such a massive advantage revealing enemies with the your first soldier's first action than at the end of your turn (again moreso because of the increased alien deadliness). Maybe they should have the "enemy noise" indicator which currently triggers when you haven't spotted enemies for a few turns show up every turn if a squad is around you so you have a better chance of revealing enemies when you expect to without having to move-overwatch. The increased player information could be countered with bigger pods to keep the difficulty about the same.
 
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veevoir

Klytus, I'm bored
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Is this really the consensus we've arrived at? XCOM 2 is hard? The talk I've seen in the community is that it is too easy, because of the classical design problem of being the same fundamental game where everyone has already learned how to exploit the systems and not enough changed to make old players readapt.

I found a pretty good discussion on reddit about the difficulty and TL; DR: the game encounters are kinda binary. Either you wipe the pod in first turn or it wipes you, because both xcom and alien abilities are cranked to 11.

I find it true from beginning up to midgame
 

baturinsky

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EU and especially LW had lost of defensive options. Such as high cover and smoke that gave substitutional bonus. And suppression that was actually shutting down enemies. That made prolonged fights possible.
In XCOM2 defence is either useless, or in one particular instance, OP.
 

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