X-COM XCOM 2 + War of the Chosen Expansion Thread

[Nirvash]

Are The Lost ever a challenge? I'm genuinely curious, because they seem way too easy to kill.

I'm not a good player, but I find the Lost are challenging in certain circumstances. In one early mission, I had a timer where I was racing Advent for crates scattered around the map. Each turn, two crates somewhere would turn red and I'd have to get to them in one turn or Advent would steal them. The Hunter Chosen was also following me around, adding extra pressure. And I had four squad members. I didn't have much time to shoot the Lost, so their numbers eventually got ridiculous, felt like a zombie film. They hit hard enough in the early game to be noticeable.

In general, I really didn't enjoy new X-Com 1 nor X-Com 2, but with this expansion X-Com 2 is more fun than any of the new ones I've played. I've always been more of a Xenonauts guy.

I just had a mission where I needed to assassinate their field commander and map was full of Lost. Since most were attacking me I could not get to mission on time. From what I read, they are 70% to attack you and only 30% to attack advent on the map. Another "brilliant" Firaxis design.

If it was 30% xcom and 70% advent you would complain that Firaxis dumbed down difficulty.

If it was 50/50 you would complain that Firaxis is boring and can't spice things up.

They are zombies, just make them attack the closer "flesh" target.

This make sense and still give some advantage to the aliens.

Where is the mod for that?

 

[Parabalus]

It's a completely different game on Legendary.

Also, JESUS CHRIST is Beaglerush good, even when rusty. I hate his mug and his voice but the man is a NuXCOM GOD. He can somehow manage to do the exact right moves even when attacked by 12 aliens.

Have some VODs/timestamps to recommend? I'd like to see what I'd do different from a pro but there's a shitton of it.

 

[Achilles]

Right. How many good tactical turn-based strategy games can you name that have a solid strategy layer (WITH TIME PRESSURE!) and a genuine high difficulty? Legendary is /tough/ - probably harder than Superhuman in UFO and I played the SHIT out of UFO. No, they're not like UFO/TFTD. They're more like a modern spin-off board game. But that board game is pretty damn good.

And absolutely agreed on the pods. You could probably make it so that every 'pod' is 1 person, but every 'pod' is drawn by sound. That way you could still have ye olde "Hunt the last lobsterman hiding in a closet!" feeling.

By the way, are you looking forward to XCOM 3? I think a Lovecraftian horror vibe would work really well with the series. TFTD is near and dear to my heart and I wouldn't mind playing the boardgame version of it.

Tentaculats!!! The horror, the horror...

I prefered the first XCOM's modern setting over the Apocalypse-like XCOM 2 but yes, I would love, love, LOVE a TFTD-like XCOM 3.

I do enjoy these games a lot. They might be different than how I would personally design an X-Com reboot but I consider it a significant win for gamers that the new XCOM is a turn-based strategy game and not some FPS abomination. Firaxis is slowly improving upon the formula with each iteration.

I just can't get over the fact that these games punish you severely for wanting to explore the map and try out different approaches. They've improved upon the design of maps, added more verticality and multiple structures, but it's all for naught because you have to keep your squad closely together and walk in a straight line towards the objective or risk activating multiple pods at once or not finishing the mission on time. The original games offered a lot more freedom in that regard.

I also miss landing under heavy fire, We Were Soldiers style.

 

[Jasede]

Honestly, the game is at its best if you trigger too many pods on accident. I wrote about my Classic (3rd difficulty) playthrough, right? Where I accidentally triggered 4 or 5 pods at once in the final mission? THAT was a memorable fight. Life and death was on the line. The game's no good when you just alpha strike pod after pod but that's what the flawed design encourages.

 

[Jimmious]

Honestly, the game is at its best if you trigger too many pods on accident. I wrote about my Classic (3rd difficulty) playthrough, right? Where I accidentally triggered 4 or 5 pods at once in the final mission? THAT was a memorable fight. Life and death was on the line. The game's no good when you just alpha strike pod after pod but that's what the flawed design encourages.

It's in these moments where you have to really know which out of the 1000 abilities you currently have on which soldier and in what position he/she is in.
Today I completely eliminated my first Chosen and holy fuck was that a hard battle. Barely made it out

 

[Galdred]

Honestly, the game is at its best if you trigger too many pods on accident. I wrote about my Classic (3rd difficulty) playthrough, right? Where I accidentally triggered 4 or 5 pods at once in the final mission? THAT was a memorable fight. Life and death was on the line. The game's no good when you just alpha strike pod after pod but that's what the flawed design encourages.

Yes but actively engaging multiple pods early is something the game punishes you heavily for, which is a problem.
Being able to call for reinforcements and having more ways to level up your roster would alleviate this, and make playing without pods more manageable.

 

[Silva]

Wadda fuck is TFTD?

 

[Jimmious]

12 years in here and not knowing this acronym

 

[Galdred]

Wadda fuck is TFTD?

Quickly, delete it before someone quote you here!
Google X-COM + TFTD should return the correct answer first

 

[Silva]

Oh it's Terror from the Deep.

That shit.

 

[Stavrophore]

Late game on L/I in WotC is too easy, and beaglerush is mediocre -really slow thinker, almost on the brink of retardation, also sometimes there are fight you shouldnt pick, and he clearly doesnt understand that. Fight rulers in the nontimed missions such as supply raids, facility attacks etc. Sure you might loose a region from failed guerilla but hey, its still better than loosing 2 good soldiers[sometime with equipment on them] and have rest for 20 days in medbay. L/I is a long march, and in my experience exp. soldiers and wounds are more important than loosing a region.

 

[luinthoron]

Wait... Shouldn't the rulers only be guarding facilities in WotC anyway? I guess someone chose the DLC missions over the WotC integration there.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Oh it's Terror from the Deep.

That shit.

Can't fool us now, we know you're a scrub.

 

[Achilles]

Honestly, the game is at its best if you trigger too many pods on accident. I wrote about my Classic (3rd difficulty) playthrough, right? Where I accidentally triggered 4 or 5 pods at once in the final mission? THAT was a memorable fight. Life and death was on the line. The game's no good when you just alpha strike pod after pod but that's what the flawed design encourages.

By the end multiple pods are more manageable because your characters are basically superheroes and you aren't in serious danger of being one-shotted. In the early game if you trigger multiple pods you are fucked. In the late game one could make the argument that you have the tools to detect and follow pod movement through stealth units, items (battle scanner) or skills (scanning protocol). At the start of the game you are practically playing blind.

 

[SumDrunkGuy]

Wadda fuck is TFTD?

Titty Fucked To Death.

Example: "the fat girl got TFTD"

 

[Parabalus]

Wait... Shouldn't the rulers only be guarding facilities in WotC anyway? I guess someone chose the DLC missions over the WotC integration there.

Not exactly. You can only encounter a ruler for the first time at a facility, at which point it will likely escape with half hp. Afterwards it can appear in any mission (as pod leader), e.g. I got lucky and the Archon King showed in a mission with The Lost.

It's a completely different game on Legendary.

Also, JESUS CHRIST is Beaglerush good, even when rusty. I hate his mug and his voice but the man is a NuXCOM GOD. He can somehow manage to do the exact right moves even when attacked by 12 aliens.

Have some VODs/timestamps to recommend? I'd like to see what I'd do different from a pro but there's a shitton of it.

a nice one that has a lot of planning is his archon king mission at ~13:06 https://www.twitch.tv/videos/171858062

Thanks, I'll go check that out later. Really curious too since I couldn't find a 'clean' answer to the AK myself.

 

[Mazisky]

Bro, you're delusional. There wasn't a single good xcom-like game since the originals, until we got the Firaxis "abortions". What make you think now it will happen?

And while the originals have aspects that are still better than the NuComs, I'm pretty happy with the later, and find them great games by themselves. Clearly better than any clones that appeared in this interlude.

Ja2 was an awesome game and very Xcom-like, with a strategy layer too.

Still 1 game in 20 years, LEL.

I bet next worth games will be Phoenix Point (2018) and Xcom 3 (2020)

 

[Stavrophore]

Phoenix Point (2018)

I don't think 2 AP system can warrant a good tactical game in any situation. It's just too limiting. At least they are bringing back things that could be easily coded like 20 years ago in orig. XCOM -bullets that are real entities.

 

[Mazisky]

Phoenix Point (2018)

I don't think 2 AP system can warrant a good tactical game in any situation. It's just too limiting.

The only limiting thing here is saying AP system alone can't warrant a good tactical game. Sorry.

 

[Mark Richard]

I just can't get over the fact that these games punish you severely for wanting to explore the map and try out different approaches. They've improved upon the design of maps, added more verticality and multiple structures, but it's all for naught because you have to keep your squad closely together and walk in a straight line towards the objective or risk activating multiple pods at once or not finishing the mission on time. The original games offered a lot more freedom in that regard.

In theory giving soldiers two actions instead of budgeting Action Points makes every movement an edge-of-your-seat commitment, and playing with less soldiers ramps up the importance of each one. Ever since that change Firaxis have been struggling to find ways to bring players out of their shell - mission timers, item drops on timers, unique resources... on timers.

 

[luinthoron]

Not exactly. You can only encounter a ruler for the first time at a facility, at which point it will likely escape with half hp. Afterwards it can appear in any mission (as pod leader), e.g. I got lucky and the Archon King showed in a mission with The Lost.

Noted. Haven't had the chance to meet any of them in the game myself yet.

 

[Achilles]

I just can't get over the fact that these games punish you severely for wanting to explore the map and try out different approaches. They've improved upon the design of maps, added more verticality and multiple structures, but it's all for naught because you have to keep your squad closely together and walk in a straight line towards the objective or risk activating multiple pods at once or not finishing the mission on time. The original games offered a lot more freedom in that regard.

In theory giving soldiers two actions instead of budgeting Action Points makes every movement an edge-of-your-seat commitment, and playing with less soldiers ramps up the importance of each one. Ever since that change Firaxis have been struggling to find ways to bring players out of their shell - mission timers, item drops on timers, unique resources... on timers.

XCOM 2's timers are basically an admission of failure on Firaxis' part. "We want you to take more risks but we can't figure out a way to offer sufficient reward for your risk so here's a timer that introduces a hard fail state on almost every mission. Play the way we want you to play or you're fucked." It was still very fun but very limiting.

 

[Jasede]

There's about 50% less timed missions in the expansion.

I don't think the 1 MP / 1 AP system is any better or worse than the old system. What always bugged me in old UFO was that a lot of the costs were percentages that scaled - so gaining more TU on a soldier didn't make much of a difference in my experience. I do think that system gave you more freedom.

Of all the things I miss the one thing I actually do miss isn't squad size or having to buy individual grenades -- what I miss is individual bullet physics. It's still somewhat in the game but-- see, in UFO/TFTD you could do things like... force-fire on a wall with auto-fire so that the wall would be destroyed in the first shit and the next two hit the alien behind the wall. That was really cool. You might think that's a very specific thing but I ended up doing that multiple times each campaign; it was very useful.

 

[Stavrophore]

Of all the things I miss the one thing I actually do miss isn't squad size or having to buy individual grenades -- what I miss is individual bullet physics. It's still somewhat in the game but-- see, in UFO/TFTD you could do things like... force-fire on a wall with auto-fire so that the wall would be destroyed in the first shit and the next two hit the alien behind the wall. That was really cool. You might think that's a very specific thing but I ended up doing that multiple times each campaign; it was very useful.

With current engines we should have these things on a normal basis, heck it should be even extended with material pentration mechanics -you have that big badass cannon and want to spray through the wall -sure no problem you can do that. Currently there's shredder cannon but its one time ability. Saturation zone is somewhat similar. But hey it should be an equipment trait, rather than a soldier ability, and the one you get on colonel level! That's really not well designed, but i guess with pod system in place and extensive knowledge you could spray through walls for easy pod kills. I also think that without pod system, the vision mechanics would be crucial. The concealment and cover system, where you shoot, and then break sight would force players to higher use of suppressive fire, and spraying in the general direction of enemy. Spotter, snipers would be extremely effective, just like in real life. Having recon and vision on the enemy[especially being the first who see adversary!] is the basis of modern warfare.

I guess its about time for JA remake, hence my raging ramblings.

 

[Togukawa]

JA:flashback and JA:bia... It's such a disgrace that in 18 years nothing that comes even remotely close to the complexity and depth of JA has been developed. You'd think that with all the additional processing power of modern PCs developers could do better than nuxcom.