Preview Yet another Fallout 3 preview

[Black]

But we are. What about us? It's not always about you, bastard!

 

[Jason]

You know what, forget this crap. I have already stated what i wanted to say.

I'm not interested in continuing this any further, seeing that there's a whole lot of bitterness connected to that issue.

There's a friend of mine who, during every meal, stops eating and says "I'm full, I ate too much." And then she goes right back to eating.
It's a cute little quirk on her. Not so much on other folks.

 

[Kingston]

Like i've said before, i can see that there are valid concerns about Fallout3, just as much as there are those which are blown out of proportion. If you didn't read that, do so now.

I'm NOT saying that some concerns are completely unfounded, but the majority of them sure is.

Are you taking cues from Rex? That is some serious flip-flopping you are doing there.

Also, please don't pick and mix what you reply to. You should reply to all arguements, not ignore the ones that might put you in a tough position.

 

[Texas Red]

Also, please don't pick and mix what you reply to. You should reply to all arguements, not ignore the ones that might put you in a tough position.

Like my post

 

[Colt_Seavers]

Like i've said before, i can see that there are valid concerns about Fallout3, just as much as there are those which are blown out of proportion. If you didn't read that, do so now.

I'm NOT saying that some concerns are completely unfounded, but the majority of them sure is.

Are you taking cues from Rex? That is some serious flip-flopping you are doing there.

Also, please don't pick and mix what you reply to. You should reply to all arguements, not ignore the ones that might put you in a tough position.

And what would that "tough position" be then? That i'm completely wrong and you're absolutely right? How conceited can this actually get?
About that flip-flopping. Pretty serious,huh? People should be reminded to copy-paste every single sentence they've ever written, just to get it spot on.

I will certainly not reply to every post. If i did i would have to reply to Blacks post, which isn't even worth reading in the first place.

@The Walkin' Dude: Just because i didn't reply to your post specifically that would put me in a tough position? Come on. Want me to admit that i agree to some things you said and that i disagree with others?

 

[DefJam101]

Interesting how you ignore what he said by inquiring what a "tough position" is then use that same exact term to describe something in the same post (since you don't understand what he means, of course?).



The added bonus of trying to put words in his mouth

That i'm completely wrong and you're absolutely right? How conceited can this actually get?

is also a nice touch.

 

[Kingston]

And what would that "tough position" be then? That i'm completely wrong and you're absolutely right? How conceited can this actually get?

The tough position where actually have to *think* about what you write. You see, I really don't have a problem about wheter or not you like Fallout3, but your arguements hold about as much water as a fucking basket. I don't like shitty arguementation, I don't like reading through posts to find myself bewildered at how much nonsense there is. I don't like flip-flopping. It's personal now, nigga!

About that flip-flopping. Pretty serious,huh? People should be reminded to copy-paste every single sentence they've ever written, just to get it spot on.

Concepts such as half and majority are not hard to grasp, you don't suddenly switch them over. You don't need to copy-paste every word, you should just recall what you said. And when you are referring to older posts you made, fucking check them to see if you remember right! I'm merely pointing out your flip-flopping early so you don't start sliding with your opinion until its at "Guys, seriously, I only ever said that there was a couple of concerns that might be on the exaggerating side".

I will certainly not reply to every post. If i did i would have to reply to Blacks post, which isn't even worth reading in the first place.

You'll pick what you reply to? What are you, a weiner? You don't get to say "no comment" to questions on your opinion, you have to back them up. Grow some balls.

 

[Brother None]

I'm not interested in continuing this any further, seeing that there's a whole lot of bitterness connected to that issue.

Yet you keep posting.

No wonder you have such difficulty dealing with the fact that other people don't share your opinion and tastes, you have no capability of letting something go.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Oh boy, a shining testimony to maturity.
Know what? The one and only person to decide wether i liked the fucking GAME will be none other than myself, once i've played it. Case closed.

Yeah you uhh... said that before. That apparently hasn't stopped you from coming here though and telling others how they're supposed to judge the game with your "ZOMG u cannot judgeit it hassnot been released yet!" ranting. All the while maintaining that on one hand, we're apparently ruining it for you because you'll somehow become corrupted by our hate and anger, while on the other constantly repeating that "I won't judge it until I play it". So you like having it both ways then, huh?

So you've missed all the news about Fallout 3 then?

I read that stuff on their homepage, i read it here, i read it at NMA and various other sites. So? Just because i don't particularly see things as negative as most people here i'm some sort of idiot? Maybe you'd even like to tell me straight on that i'm no Fallout-fan or RPG enthusiast?

Nope. You've even said yourself that while the game is not yet available there "sure are some valid concerns about several design choices". Yet turn right around and say "but that doesn't have to mean everything will turn out bad".

There you go having it both ways again.

Yup. Hence the hate here for forced tutorials or opening sequences.

I really do think that that hate stems from somewhere else, not the fact that even the Fallout series is ridden with its own failures and tediums at times.

You've used your psychic powers to determine that the hate for the Temple of Trials comes from "something else"? Even though several people have repeatedly said the Temple of Trials sucks?

Oh that's right. We're all liars and you're the messiah who's come to save us. Sorry, I forgot.

Maybe you can skip the whole "tutorial" after you've seen it a couple of times, which would solve the problem right there.

... and here you go again. Making shit up. If we'd said something like that, you'd have accused of us of "not waiting until the game comes out!" and yet when it comes to saying something positive, you can apparently make up as much shit as you like. "Maybe it will be fun?" "Maybe you can skip that part?"

Maybe... Maybe...You'll think of me... When you are all alone...

How do you know? You haven't played it yet! You're just making shit up!

Maybe you'd like to have a game that "features" not a single bit of story or background information? A completely empty world where you have to create everything yourself and dream up your own perfect little fairy tale.

No, that's called Oblivion and that game sucked.

... or it might not. OHOH.

Yup, that's also quite possible. It depends on how well its implemented.

Precisely and yet when we use our judgement and past experience with Bethesda to say that the chances of it not sucking are slim to none, you're here to tell us that no, it might be totally awesome! Because like, you can skip that part!

Next you'll be telling us that it's okay, the modders will be able to fix it.

Sorry, you didn't "get the feeling"? So you don't know then? Doesn't that mean then by your argument that you don't get to say shit about Fallout 3?

That part was a reaction towards another members impression, not the game.

It's still you saying something about the game based on nothing other than what you think. Now if I were you, I'd go into some rave about how you're pulling shit out of your ass but apparently, we're not allowed to do that. You seem to be the only one who has that pass key.

Here you go again! Saying bad stuff = you haven't played it yet but we can apparently think and feel all the good stuff we want without any problems.

No, it's not a matter of hype or anti-hype. YOU want to think that i'm just trying to praise the good sides and be silent about the bad ones. The truth is, Fallout 3 could just as well turn out to be an abomination as it could turn out an enjoyable experience. I'm NOT saying that some concerns are completely unfounded, but the majority of them sure is.
Want some examples? Can be found right here in this very thread. "Mutants= ALL of them are just stupid monsters" "Super-Mutants=Orks" "Fallout3=Oblivion-Clone" "Under-developed quest, judging from nothing" "Fallout3=FPS". The list goes on and on.

This has been dealt with so I'll skip most of it and focus on just one thing:

• Interview at GameSpot around how 'Many forum-posters worried that Fallout 3 would merely become "Morrowind with guns"'.
• A forum post on NMA by a Bethesda developer explicitly stating "Anyway, Fallout 3 will be very, very different from Oblivion (or any other TES game). It won't be "Morrowind with guns". It won't even be "Oblivion with guns"."
• Todd Howard enthusiastically telling everyone that it's not just Morrowind with guns, it's Oblivion with Guns!

Yeah, that seems like a pretty extreme about-face right there and we're not supposed to be concerned about that? Right... or is it that we're somehow blowing it "out of proportion"? I know, we've just made that all up again, haven't we because we're just such dirty liars?

Actually, it's pretty substantive when a company has a track record for over-hyping their games and failing to deliver. It also sounds like you haven't read any of the interviews yet.

Oh, now that's supposed to be substance,eh?

Yup. If a company has a track record of saying one thing, failing to deliver and then pushing something else out the door, that's substance right there.

Of course they can't produce a nice game because they're Bethesda..and made Oblivion. Apparently there are people who liked some of their older games but does that make them idiots? I have played the Elder Scrolls series as well and while none of those titles rank up to my all-time favorites, i still felt entertained for a while.

I've been entertained by Tetris too. Still, if Fallout 3 was Tetris, it doesn't matter whether it's an enjoyable game or not, it's not Fallout. That's the issue here. Bethesda could take Fallout, turn it into some kind of anime Hentai game and oh sure, you might enjoy that but if the rest of us wanted that, we wouldn't be Fallout fans, would we? And after all, what's the point of making a Fallout game if you're going to suck out all the parts that make it a Fallout game?

... or it could equally mean that it might. So, given that either proposition could be true, there shouldn't be any harm to anyone in expressing either viewpoint, right? In fact, given the precise same thing happened with Oblivion, doesn't the weight start to shift ever so slightly into the "hmmm... this might not be so good" camp?

Expressing your viewpoint doesn't do any harm unless it's a far cry from reality.

Can you make up your mind about whether our view does or doesn't harm other people? You seem to be flip-flopping about quite a lot on that. One minute you tell us we can't say bad things because it might harm someone (but we can "hope" and "feel" all the good things we like and you won't complain), then you do an about face and tell us all how it won't affect anyone anyway. Please, just for clarity's sake, can you choose a position and stick with it?

You seem to be concerned that F3 will not turn out that good, am i right? Okay, let's wait and see then.

Sure, we'll wait and see. But I'm not going to stop critiscising what I see as bad design decisions just because I haven't played it yet.

... and so you're here now because...?

What? Don't want me in your nifty little elite-club? I would think that RPG Codex can actually stomach different dispositions, thank you very much.

No, by all means, you're welcome to stay. However:

1. You keep saying that what we say will stop people from playing the game and making up their own minds.
2. You keep saying that you'll play the game and make up your own mind no matter what we say.
3. You say you don't care what nasty, horrible and negative things we have to say about it.
4. You keep complaining about all the nasty, horrible and negative things we have to say about it.

As I asked, you're posting here because... You're schizophrenic?

So if we were here heaping praise on Fallout 3 saying it's shaping up to be a great game, you'd be here telling us that we can't judge it yet and that we should wait until it comes out because it just might be crap?

Oh, vou're very welcome to post your thoughts here. Just don't expect me to take everything for granted that's being told. See? This little line of argumentation works vice versa.

... and yet you've come here under the pretext of telling us that we're not allowed to speak our minds because we're apparently "making shit up" (apparently about it being Oblivion with guns) and "you never know, the game might be good".

There are two types of people when it comes to judging computer games. There are those who can see the train coming, see the track the train is on, see that the bridge further down the track is out and then determine where that train will end up. And then there are stupid people. Stupid people hold onto the hope that maybe, just maybe, this train won't be like all the others.

Not to mention that sort of people who desperatly want to see that train coming even though there aren't even any railtracks to be found anywhere.

So you think Fallout 3 isn't actually being released at all and that this is some kind of drawn-out April Fool's joke? I mean, at some point we do have to take Bethesda at their word and if they say they're making Fallout 3 and there are toilets to drink from and radiation protection phone booths and toaster launchers and Orcs...

And of course, all the other people that don't necessarily see that bad little train coming all that much are just plain stupid,huh?
Oh, i can see self-righteous hypocrisy just right, thank you very much.

Nope, apparently you can't.

By the way, I thought you said you were leaving and yet you're still posting? There's you being a hypocrite and trying to have it both ways again.

 

[BrainSquirmingLikeAToad]

hello world

 

[Gnidrologist]

You just have to appriciate DU's never changing briefness.

 

[MetalCraze]

@Colt_Seavers

really - either you are an ESF troll or just totally clueless.
there is just one fact that tells that Fallout3 is in no way a good Fallout game and RPG. you know which one is that?

Fallout 3 is a goddamn fucking first-person shooter with stats and slo-mo where you run around and shoot monsters with mini-nukes which totally looks like Serious Sam. it's a fucking shooter damn it - that is indisputable fact and is proven by tons of bethesda own words - do you u-n-d-e-r-s-t-a-n-d?

 

[Occasionally Fatal]

OP: Is it really that big a deal that you cant change your parents' names?

 

[Aditya]

Did you happen to miss, by chance, how Bethesda practically stole the Fallout name from the rightful owners that are Troika, so they can cash in on already existing popularity?

Was Fallout commerrically *popular*?? I am asking genuinely, no sarcasm.

Did you forget how they raped Fallout in to an FPS for consoles because all they care about is expanding their potential market?

FPS for consoles? Battles in Fallout werent 'FPS'-like just coz they were in isometric viewpoint?? Chaning the viewpoint to FP suddenly makes it the game for consoles??

Have you actually seen anything that resembles Fallout yet or did you only vitness a bunch of combat screens and videos?

Even many of the FO3 haters here would agree the gameworld realization, the gritty style has been in sync with previous games. Its true that there isnt substancial proof about Role-playing, as in dialogues and C&C. The last time Emil told about different ways of dealing wtih Megaton quests, many simply said "its hype" so I wonder even if they show *anything* in that regard, it would make a difference in people's opinion here.

Why are we *whining*? Because the opposite of us, the professional journalism, blindly sucks Bethesda's cock.

Indeed, the reigns of maintaing balance is onto you. Great job!

 

[JarlFrank]

OP: Is it really that big a deal that you cant change your parents' names?

'Twas sarcasm.

Also, I think that Colt_Seavers guy officially deserves the illiterate tag.

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

OP: Is it really that big a deal that you cant change your parents' names?

'Twas sarcasm.

Also, I think that Colt_Seavers guy officially deserves the illiterate tag.

Is it not to soon for that?

 

[elander_]

Even many of the FO3 haters here would agree the gameworld realization, the gritty style has been in sync with previous games. Its true that there isnt substancial proof about Role-playing, as in dialogues and C&C. The last time Emil told about different ways of dealing wtih Megaton quests, many simply said "its hype" so I wonder even if they show *anything* in that regard, it would make a difference in people's opinion here.

You are pulling crap out of your ass. What *many* people did was to observe that that quest only has two black and white choices and asked for clarification or a better quest example and none were given.

Until today, except for sweat promises, that is the only example we have of choices and consequences. Pete is too busy playing Fallout 3 demos like someone is playing a post-apocalyptic version of Max Payne with it's amazing VATS bullet time.

If it is like in Oblivion you will have to trust them and buy the game to see these amazing choices and consequences. Are you that dumb?

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Also, I think that Colt_Seavers guy officially deserves the illiterate tag.

Is it not to soon for that?

Yeah come on guys, it's only page 3. I personally have a page 9 mininum before I even begin to contemplate tags.

 

[Aditya]

Even many of the FO3 haters here would agree the gameworld realization, the gritty style has been in sync with previous games. Its true that there isnt substancial proof about Role-playing, as in dialogues and C&C. The last time Emil told about different ways of dealing wtih Megaton quests, many simply said "its hype" so I wonder even if they show *anything* in that regard, it would make a difference in people's opinion here.

You are pulling crap out of your ass. What *many* people did was to observe that that quest only has two black and white choices and asked for clarification or a better quest example and none were given.

If you remove the shit-tainted glasses off your eyes, perhaps you can see things for what they actually are. There was certainly more info available regarding it. Try to be up-to-date when you want to discuss stuff.

"Desslock: To elaborate more on the “Megaton bomb quest” — when you arrive at that town, you can greet and be friendly with the sheriff. When you get the quest to potentially blow up the bomb, you can instead inform the sheriff that these dudes are trying to blow up the town. Or you can decide to blow up the town, but actually be unable to because you lack the mechanical skills to activate the bomb. Or you could just decide to blow the sheriff away when you meet him, in which case you’ll likely be attacked by his buddies when walking through the town. Or you could, after blowing him away, decide to put on his sheriff’s uniform, in which case some NPCs may attack you for killing the sheriff, but others may actually defer to you as the new sheriff. In short - meaningful options and real choices, and interesting characters to interact with - in that respect, I think Bethesda is appropriately emulating some of Fallout’s best and most distinctive features."


Its very clear from above text that:

You can choose to detonate the bomb
- You can choose to detonate the bomb BUT would be unable to do so if you lack certain skill
You can choose NOT to detonate the bomb
- You can choose NOT to detonate the bomb AND inform sheriff about it

Attacking/Killing Sheriff before getting this quest means you have to handle things slightly differently. Sure, the outcome is that either you blow it up or not, but there are different ways to handle that with consequences of each.

Now when this was presented to Codex, people said this is "hype". And so when someone was asking why they arent showing anything related to role-playing, I pointed out that even if they do, people are anyways going to dismiss it as 'hype' and PR bullshit.

If it is like in Oblivion you will have to trust them and buy the game to see these amazing choices and consequences. Are you that dumb?

The C&C indicated in the above example clearly surpasses anything presented in Oblivion. Surely you are not dumb to realize that?

 

[Kingston]

"The C&C indicated in the above example clearly surpasses anything presented in Oblivion."

Well, Oblivion was hyped to have the same level of CnC, but didn't end up in the final game. The example you gave from Desslock sounds good, but with Beth, you can't tell anymore. You really can't. I don't trust em.

 

[sqeecoo]

Even many of the FO3 haters here would agree the gameworld realization, the gritty style has been in sync with previous games. Its true that there isnt substancial proof about Role-playing, as in dialogues and C&C. The last time Emil told about different ways of dealing wtih Megaton quests, many simply said "its hype" so I wonder even if they show *anything* in that regard, it would make a difference in people's opinion here.

You are pulling crap out of your ass. What *many* people did was to observe that that quest only has two black and white choices and asked for clarification or a better quest example and none were given.

If you remove the shit-tainted glasses off your eyes, perhaps you can see things for what they actually are. There was certainly more info available regarding it. Try to be up-to-date when you want to discuss stuff.

"Desslock: To elaborate more on the “Megaton bomb quest” — when you arrive at that town, you can greet and be friendly with the sheriff. When you get the quest to potentially blow up the bomb, you can instead inform the sheriff that these dudes are trying to blow up the town. Or you can decide to blow up the town, but actually be unable to because you lack the mechanical skills to activate the bomb. Or you could just decide to blow the sheriff away when you meet him, in which case you’ll likely be attacked by his buddies when walking through the town. Or you could, after blowing him away, decide to put on his sheriff’s uniform, in which case some NPCs may attack you for killing the sheriff, but others may actually defer to you as the new sheriff. In short - meaningful options and real choices, and interesting characters to interact with - in that respect, I think Bethesda is appropriately emulating some of Fallout’s best and most distinctive features."


Its very clear from above text that:

You can choose to detonate the bomb
- You can choose to detonate the bomb BUT would be unable to do so if you lack certain skill
You can choose NOT to detonate the bomb
- You can choose NOT to detonate the bomb AND inform sheriff about it

Attacking/Killing Sheriff before getting this quest means you have to handle things slightly differently. Sure, the outcome is that either you blow it up or not, but there are different ways to handle that with consequences of each.

Now when this was presented to Codex, people said this is "hype". And so when someone was asking why they arent showing anything related to role-playing, I pointed out that even if they do, people are anyways going to dismiss it as 'hype' and PR bullshit.

If it is like in Oblivion you will have to trust them and buy the game to see these amazing choices and consequences. Are you that dumb?

The C&C indicated in the above example clearly surpasses anything presented in Oblivion. Surely you are not dumb to realize that?

I agree to a certain extent, but also with Kingston that this is Beth and we should expect lies and hype, not quality.

But let's look at this a little closer:



1) You can choose to detonate the bomb

So you detonate the bomb to create a radiated wasteland for a guy to build prime housing in. Aside from being silly, this appears to be the "evil" option.

2) You can choose to detonate the bomb BUT would be unable to do so if you lack certain skill

Does this have consequences? Wouldn't it hurt the players ego? I would guess that your skill would have to be VERY low.

3) You can choose NOT to detonate the bomb

Apparently, this is just a "skip the quest" option, a type of "option" that Obv had plenty of.

4) You can choose NOT to detonate the bomb AND inform sheriff about it

And this is the "good" choice.
So we have a stupid evil choice, an obvious good one, and a dubious one (because it goes against Beth's basic approach of "Don't let Dogmeat die!"), and the "choice" of skipping the quest. While having more than one option makes it instantly better then Obv, due to the silliness of the evil option, the equally silly existence of the bomb, and the complete black and whiteness, this seems to me to be a pretty bad example of choice and consequence. Baldur's gate had better ones, for god's sake.
And since they haven't shown any other stuff, this seems like it might be similar to the Fargoth quest, or the non-existent-but-hyped choices in Obv. The difference is that then the hype at least sounded interesting. Here we have a idiotic situation and two black and white options. Even if there are plenty of such choices, I can't say I am hooked: the silly plot (blowing up an unexploded bomb to make room for houses) and the black and white options just don't look good.

The "killing the sheriff" thing looks much more interesting really. And I would feel intrigued if it was not for the toilet drinking, exploding cars and mini-nukes. A game with such idiotic stuff *can't* have good execution, even if the option is interesting.

 

[Mr Happy]

Its very clear from above text that:

You can choose to detonate the bomb
- You can choose to detonate the bomb BUT would be unable to do so if you lack certain skill
You can choose NOT to detonate the bomb
- You can choose NOT to detonate the bomb AND inform sheriff about it

[....]

Now when this was presented to Codex, people said this is "hype".

No, I believe people said it looked like an utterly dull and non-sensical quest. Or at least that's what I said. Just because a game has choices and consequences or whatever doesn't mean they are good/interesting. It's pretty much a morally absolutist yes/no descision with obvious/not-very-interesting conequences. I find it slightly amusing that the much-touted "neutral path" is basically "do nothing." Man, I cannot not wait to play a neutral character in Fallout 3.

I haven't played Oblivion, and have no interest in doing so, but it certainly does seem like an improvement from what I've heard. Well, that's great. But I thought we were all about judging this game on its own merits. To me, it still looks like an utterly boring piece of gameplay with a silly background plot, and if it is at all indicative of the type of quests we will see often in Fallout 3, I have pretty much no interest in playing the game. Not a great feeling to have, considering the fact that the original Fallouts are some of my favorite games. Granted, I am sure they had a few rather unintersting quests like this one, but the fact that Megaton is being used to advertise Fallout 3's new and improved quest structure doesnt inpire any sort of enthusiasm. I mean, an indie rpg made by like 3 people made back in 2002 (Prelude to Darkness) has much more interesting quests than this. You can't just say "okay, we got choice and consequence, this quest rocks!"

 

[elander_]

If you remove the shit-tainted glasses off your eyes, perhaps you can see things for what they actually are. There was certainly more info available regarding it. Try to be up-to-date when you want to discuss stuff.

Yes i saw your Desslock quote. Now try removing your hype shit-tainted glasses and go play Fallout to see what real choices are.

Its very clear from above text that:
- You can choose to detonate the bomb
- You can choose NOT to detonate the bomb

ha ha ha ha ha boy you made me laugh.

That reminds me of Oblivion greatly hyped choices. You can chose to do the quest. You can chose not to do the quest.

- You can choose to detonate the bomb BUT would be unable to do so if you lack certain skill

That's a great progress over Oblivion. This time skills mean anything. But that's what every crpg should do.

- You can choose NOT to detonate the bomb AND inform sheriff about it

Brilliant so the only difference between this quest and an Oblivion quest is that skills mean something and you can inform someone else of what is going to happen. It's still a black and white quest with bare choices that pale in comparison to Falllout. If this is the best example they could come up with then is a very mediocre example.

Now when this was presented to Codex, people said this is "hype". And so when someone was asking why they arent showing anything related to role-playing, I pointed out that even if they do, people are anyways going to dismiss it as 'hype' and PR bullshit.

So we have to agree with you and think this is a great example of choices of consequences or you will say we don't care?

The C&C indicated in the above example clearly surpasses anything presented in Oblivion. Surely you are not dumb to realize that?

Oh i see you think we are talking about Oblivion 2 and not Fallout 3. I thought the Fallout before the 3 would be enough to clue you in but apparently that wasn't enough. You really are dumb.

 

[RK47]

You shouldn't even put Oblivion as comparison for Choice and Consequences. /facepalm

 

[Vault Dweller]

- You can choose to detonate the bomb BUT would be unable to do so if you lack certain skill

That's a great progress over Oblivion. This time skills mean anything. But that's what every crpg should do.

From the NMA preview:

"Once at the bomb, he tries to use it and a big warning flashes that his skills are insufficient to even interact with it, and has to take some Mentats that he found in the mailbox earlier to boost his intelligence and thus his technical skills (no negative effects from using these drugs are seen)."