Yuji Horii: Western press biased against turn-based systems

[Burning Bridges]

Nothing new in the West. I mean haven't people on the Codex lamented that very thing for years?

I didn't read the article, because probably the guy is producing japanese crap, and is used to people fapping about it.

But the majority of gamers don't want to exert themselves, skip the courting AND the foreplay and jerk off right away. If you are like that, real gameplay is only in the way. This rules out playing turn based games because they take time and effort to play.

 

[BearBomber]

Japs shouldn't be so biased against hexes. They are vastly superior to squares. I can't get into any Japanese tactical RPG because after playing Fantasy General and HoMM series squares really turn me off.

 

[Azrael the cat]

Japs shouldn't be so biased against hexes. They are vastly superior to hexes. I can't get into any Japanese tactical RPG because after playing Fantasy General and HoMM series squares really turn me off.

I too think hexes are vastly superior to hexes.

OT: the Japanese are pretty good at recognising the failings in the Western crpg industry, even if they can't see their own failings. One thing I think is near-undeniable: the Japanese industry has continued to cater to its base, while the Western industry seems to want as little to do with the 'oldschool' crpg player as possible.

 

[Archibald]

I'd rather the gooks move on with the times, and let the mechanic die with dignity, than soil it with their little anime-drawing hands.

Yeah but what? I`d think that turn based battle systems have bean associated with east for like last 10 years if not more.

 

[reaven]

Japs shouldn't be so biased against hexes. They are vastly superior to hexes. I can't get into any Japanese tactical RPG because after playing Fantasy General and HoMM series squares really turn me off.

I too think hexes are vastly superior to hexes.

OT: the Japanese are pretty good at recognising the failings in the Western crpg industry, even if they can't see their own failings. One thing I think is near-undeniable: the Japanese industry has continued to cater to its base, while the Western industry seems to want as little to do with the 'oldschool' crpg player as possible.

I think they can make the same games they used to because their playerbase has probably not changed a lot.
While in the west videogames are now made to be liked by fratboys and mentally challenged kids, which needs a major change.

 

[Alex]

Japs shouldn't be so biased against hexes. They are vastly superior to hexes. I can't get into any Japanese tactical RPG because after playing Fantasy General and HoMM series squares really turn me off.

I too think hexes are vastly superior to hexes.

That is just how awesome hexes are. Not even they can compare with themselves.

OT: the Japanese are pretty good at recognising the failings in the Western crpg industry, even if they can't see their own failings. One thing I think is near-undeniable: the Japanese industry has continued to cater to its base, while the Western industry seems to want as little to do with the 'oldschool' crpg player as possible.

Do they? I don't know, because I rarely pay attention to Japanese games nowadays, but I used to like some JRPGs. However, I haven't heard of much nowadays that interested me. Maybe the stuff I liked mostly don't get translated, but I thought they had been victims of the decline too.

 

[SuicideBunny]

Also turn based as it is done i jrpgs sucks, there is a distinct lack of tactical options in such a game compared to say Fallout 1/2 where one can move around the world while in combat and use the terrain/positioning to ones advantage.

you do realize the japs have both?
the static turnbased combat without movement is their version of blob combat.

Japs shouldn't be so biased against hexes. They are vastly superior to squares. I can't get into any Japanese tactical RPG because after playing Fantasy General and HoMM series squares really turn me off.

hexes suck.
they are sucky to implement, and effectively just two rectangle maps overlaid, you have always two difficult main directions in regards to movement and facing with hexes, not so much with squares that properly calculate diagonals, and squares have the advantage that you end up with effectively free movement if you make them small enough, no such thing with hexes.

hexes are better for tabletop gaming where you can't be arsed to calculate sqrt (2*a²) on the fly, and that's it.

the only instances where hexes are better than squares is when the squares use false diagonals or have no diagonals at all, or when you are a graphics whore, because hexes tend to look aesthetically better than suares.

the more interesting turn based systems feature distance based free movement anyhow.

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

That worst that could happen to TB gameplay is becoming firmly associated with weeaboo filth.

"- I prefer my entertainment to be of a more turn-based nature.
- Oh hai i luuuv final fantasy too!!!1
...
- I don't know how it happened, coronor. I just blacked out, and the next thing I remember, I am making her cracked open cranium one with the pavement with my boot."


I'd rather the gooks move on with the times, and let the mechanic die with dignity, than soil it with their little anime-drawing hands.

Bro that shit happened a long time ago and the main culprit is Final Fantasy.

 

[Phelot]

PLAYER TURN!!!!
>Attack
Spell
Flee

OMG SO DEEP

 

[KalosKagathos]

PLAYER TURN!!!!
>Attack
Spell
Flee

OMG SO DEEP

That's one more option than what you have in a typical Fallout encounter.

 

[Phelot]

PLAYER TURN!!!!
>Attack
Spell
Flee

OMG SO DEEP

That's one more option than what you have in a typical Fallout encounter.

If you don't count targeting, or actually moving on the map?

 

[FeelTheRads]

PLAYER TURN!!!!
>Attack
Spell
Flee

OMG SO DEEP

That's one more option than what you have in a typical Fallout encounter.

Trying too hard.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

How about hiding behind stuff, avoiding concentrations of enemies and other stuff that comes with movement in combat?

 

[KalosKagathos]

If you don't count targeting, or actually moving on the map?

1. Aiming for the eyes is the only mode of fire in Fallout. Anyone claiming otherwise is delusional.
2. Movement and relative positioning do not really matter in Fallout, since after gaining a couple of levels you can land eye shots consistently while standing 10 tiles away from your opponent. There's also no penalty for using ranged weapons at point black range, making melee a waste of time.
3.

WHERE'S YOUR YHVH NOW?

Trying too hard.

Just telling it like it is, bro. Hate JRPGs for spiky hair, don't hate them for solid combat mechanics.

How about hiding behind stuff, avoiding concentrations of enemies and other stuff that comes with movement in combat?

Sorry, but we're discussing Fallout, not JA.

 

[Phelot]

If you don't count targeting, or actually moving on the map?

1. Aiming for the eyes is the only mode of fire in Fallout. Anyone claiming otherwise is delusional.
2. Movement and relative positioning do not really matter in Fallout, since after gaining a couple of levels you can land eye shots consistently while standing 10 tiles away from your opponent. There's also no penalty for using ranged weapons at point black range, making melee a waste of time.
3.

WHERE'S YOUR YHVH NOW?

Trying too hard.

Just telling it like it is, bro. Hate JRPGs for spiky hair, don't hate them for solid combat mechanics.

How about hiding behind stuff, avoiding concentrations of enemies and other stuff that comes with movement in combat?

Sorry, but we're discussing Fallout, not JA.

Like I said in the other thread, I freely admit that some jRPGs might have good mechanics. I say "might" because I've never played them because of their retarded art/setting/style/pokemons/big-headed-kids/etc etc I can't fucking stand it. I mean look at those pics. Jesus Christ...

Doesn't change the fact that many jRPGs seem to consist of attack/spell/flee as their "ultimate" TB formula. I mean, I could post a pick of ToEE, but what would that prove?

 

[reaven]

Its no secret that fallout combat is rather simple... But say for example golden box games have more complex combat than most turn based jrpgs

 

[Volourn]

"PLAYER TURN!!!!
>Attack
Spell
Flee

OMG SO DEEP"

Bullshit. Most FF games have more options that that, tool.



"But say for example golden box games have more complex combat than most turn based jrpgs"

Nah.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

PLAYER TURN!!!!
>Attack
Spell
Flee

OMG SO DEEP

That's one more option than what you have in a typical Fallout encounter.

Trying too hard.

He should feel right at home here at the Codex, then

Doesn't change the fact that many jRPGs seem to consist of attack/spell/flee as their "ultimate" TB formula. I mean, I could post a pick of ToEE, but what would that prove?

Well, you'd prove that a game that focuses on combat has better combat than games that don't focus on combat.

 

[Zeus]

Well, tactical RPGs like the Gold Box series are always going to have superior combat to the Wizardry type games--at least in my opinion--and that also goes for JRPGs and Japanese "strategic" (they mean tactical) RPGs as well.

So you can't compare something like ToEE to something like Dragon Warrior, which is based on Wizardry (first person battles with enemies lined up in front of you, etc.)

Final Fantasy Tactics had a great combat engine: terrain bonuses, environmental hazards, interactive scenery, like a gate you could rush over to open and let the other half of your party through, special attacks and spells that hit various shapes (long lines, crosses, etc.) so you had to watch for friendly fire and tried to line up as many enemies as you could, all that good stuff.

 

[Archibald]

Some Codexers butthurt that their favorite games aren`t best at everything.

KalosKagathos, from what game are those screans?

 

[spekkio]

Some Codexers butthurt that their favorite games aren`t best at everything.

KalosKagathos, from what game are those screans?

SMT - Devil Survivor
And for people who just can't stand these gay anime fags - enjoy your gay D&D elves...

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

If you don't count targeting, or actually moving on the map?

1. Aiming for the eyes is the only mode of fire in Fallout. Anyone claiming otherwise is delusional.
2. Movement and relative positioning do not really matter in Fallout, since after gaining a couple of levels you can land eye shots consistently while standing 10 tiles away from your opponent. There's also no penalty for using ranged weapons at point black range, making melee a waste of time.

Does aiming for the eyes magically stop other enemies from firing at you?

How about hiding behind stuff, avoiding concentrations of enemies and other stuff that comes with movement in combat?

Sorry, but we're discussing Fallout, not JA.

These things do exist in Fallout. You can hide behind walls and good positioning can help to avoid fighting too many enemies at the same time.

 

[JarlFrank]

@ KalosKagathos:

Since you seem to be the most knowledgable Japfag around here, could you recommend any JRPGs which actually have good combat like the one you posted the screenshot from? The main reason I never got into JRPGs is because the static "pick ATTACK or MAGIC and watch your guy do his move, also no random element" combat always makes me insta-quit.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

pick ATTACK or MAGIC and watch your guy do his move

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYciHBy0GiM

also no random element

You mean possibility of the enemy evading the attack? I think every jrpg has it.

 

[Archibald]

You mean possibility of the enemy evading the attack? I think every jrpg has it.

I think he ment that there is no "does 2d6+1 damage" weapons and shit.

These things do exist in Fallout. You can hide behind walls and good positioning can help to avoid fighting too many enemies at the same time.

This is not exclusive to western rpgs ffs.