Yuji Horii: Western press biased against turn-based systems

[KalosKagathos]

@ KalosKagathos:

Since you seem to be the most knowledgable Japfag around here, could you recommend any JRPGs which actually have good combat like the one you posted the screenshot from? The main reason I never got into JRPGs is because the static "pick ATTACK or MAGIC and watch your guy do his move, also no random element" combat always makes me insta-quit.

Anything with the words Shin Megami Tensei in the title, A Vagrant Story, Final Fantasy XII and Tactics, Shadow Hearts. Should keep you occupied for a while.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

These things do exist in Fallout. You can hide behind walls and good positioning can help to avoid fighting too many enemies at the same time.

This is not exclusive to western rpgs ffs.

Which is relevant to?

 

[Zeus]

Baten Kaitos: Eternal Wings of the Lost Ocean (Gamecube) has one of the most engaging combat systems I've ever played. The whole thing works a bit like poker, a bit like an inventory based adventure game, and a bit like a JRPG.

Basically, all weapons, items, "attack" or "defense" commands, etc., are cards. You build a deck before the battle, so if you want a defensive mage, skip physical weapons.

The most simple form of combo is the straight, with the cards' numbers making a sequence. But it goes so much further than that. For instance, if you cast combinations of cards, they'll form different attacks: enchanted weapons, uber spells, stuff like that.

Even stranger, if you attack someone with the right sequence of cards, it'll create new items. So, hit them with a Kettle, throw Rice in their eyes, throw boiling water on them and slap them with a huge fish, and at the end of the battle, you've made dinner on their face and can walk away with a nice new health item.

Even more insane, though turn based, the game has a real time clock, with Bananas slowly rotting, ice slowly melting (making ice magic hard to do), and all kinds of weird stuff.

But my favorite of all, you don't get gold from enemies. Instead, you need a Camera card, which you use to take in-battle pictures (sacrificing a chance to attack) and sell the pictures off like you're Peter Parker or something. Yes, it's a photojournalist-based economy. The best time to take a picture is right after a melee attack, when you're nice and close.

"Die... why won't you die! ...say cheese!"

No, the game's not in Japanese; Yes, that party member looks like a fairy princess; no, you can easily replace her with a ninja or psychotic fisherman like I did. For me this game isn't about character design so much as a really interesting battle system that keeps me on my toes, rather than the usual attack/spell/heal menu system rut.

 

[spekkio]

Also: Both Baten Kaitos games work fine on Dolphin AFAIK...

 

[JarlFrank]

Looks good. What system is it for? Any good emulators or a PC version available?

I'd like to try the Shin Megami Tensei games, if there's any Japfaggotry I'd enjoy, they seem to be it. Question: PC version, yes/no? If no, which systems are they for, which is the best version if there are multiple ones, and are there emulators?

Also, are the Persona games any good? One of them has Hitler in it so I want to try that one.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Looks good. What system is it for? Any good emulators or a PC version available?

Read the damn posts instead of just loooking at the pretty pictures

I'd like to try the Shin Megami Tensei games, if there's any Japfaggotry I'd enjoy, they seem to be it. Question: PC version, yes/no? If no, which systems are they for, which is the best version if there are multiple ones, and are there emulators?

PS1, PS2, , SNES, DS, Gameboy, GB Color, etc. Emulators readily available for all (Emulatorzone has them all up to date). The "best" version would be SMT Nocturne for the PS2, but I guess it's down to preference.

Also, are the Persona games any good? One of them has Hitler in it so I want to try that one.

That's Persona 2: Innocent Sin for the PS1, but

Spoiler

it's not really Hitler lol :scooby-doo:

.

 

[KalosKagathos]

I'd like to try the Shin Megami Tensei games, if there's any Japfaggotry I'd enjoy, they seem to be it. Question: PC version, yes/no? If no, which systems are they for, which is the best version if there are multiple ones, and are there emulators?

No PC versions. SNES has the first two games of the main series, and Shin Megami Tensei if..., but that one wasn't translated. PSOne has the first two Devil Summoner games (not translated) and the first two Persona games (both translated, the first one infamously badly). PS2 has SMT III, two Raidou games (prequels to Devil Summoner), Persona 3 and 4, Digital Devil Saga. Nintendo DS has Devil Survivor and Strange Journey. There are other spin-offs, but the general consensus is that tracking them down isn't really worth it. Pretty much all the games I listed are well-emulated, with the exception of Raidou games, which lag in areas with a lot of characters. Nothing that can't be stomached, but it's something to keep in mind.

Also, are the Persona games any good? One of them has Hitler in it so I want to try that one.

Not bad, but not as good as the others, IMO, mostly because of the less interesting high school setting and some questionable combat mechanics. Most notably, the PS2 version of Persona 3 lacks direct control over party members, making certain boss fights harder than they'd be otherwise. 2 and 4 are p. good, though.

 

[Archibald]

(both translated, the first one infamously badly).

Wasn`t fan translation finished?

 

[Zeus]

I heard the original was re-released on PSN with the missing sub-quest patched back in.

 

[KalosKagathos]

(both translated, the first one infamously badly).

Wasn`t fan translation finished?

No, Persona 2: Innocent Sin is the one that got a fan translation. The original Persona did get a PSP remake with a good translation, but PSP emulation is still in its infancy.

 

[lightbane]

Persona 3 and 4 are not recommended if you hate dating sim styles games and emo-teenager characters (to the point that the cast of P3 makes Cloud Strife look like an healthy and happy guy).

 

[Ermm]

I like Breath of Fire IV a lot.

Superb 2D graphics, superb soundtrack, interesting story (even though hugely cliched, I liked it, and it had few neat plot twists). I liked desert map the most.
I also liked it's master system (you can only gain a spell by perfoming combo's).
Haven't played BOF V but I heard it's shite.

 

[deuxhero]

Persona 4 is a great deal less emo. It helps that it is more "being in a small rural town is boring " than "My dad got killed working on a project that doomed humanity". Also P4 has better pacing and doesn't stop the plot halfway while everyone angsts.

 

[anus_pounder]

I'll second Persona 4 and the SMT games.

I can't be arsed to set up a ps2 emulator and I don't think P4 is compatable anyway, so buy a ps2 and the game, both are pretty cheap anyway.

SMT Devil Survivor and Strange Journey are on the DS and I'm happy to say you can emulate them. Fuck yeah for emulators!

 

[denizsi]

IGN: Are there any other modern RPG's that you're especially fond of, or have maybe influenced your creative process?

Yuji Horii: Oblivion. The Elder Scorlls IV: Oblivion. I like that a lot.

Fucking poseur.

 

[Zeus]

Maybe he's just messing with them. Father of the turn-based JRPG, asked which American RPGs he likes: "Oblivion! ME2! BioShock!"

 

[Clockwork Knight]

I think he genuinely likes it. Wasn't Fallout 3 successful there?

 

[Ruprekt]

Maybe he's just messing with them. Father of the turn-based JRPG, asked which American RPGs he likes: "Oblivion! ME2! BioShock!"

Could well be. The Japanese sense of humor is like that.

 

[Archibald]

I think he genuinely likes it. Wasn't Fallout 3 successful there?

Wasn`t Fallout 3 succesfful everywhere?

 

[SCO]

Maybe he's just messing with them. Father of the turn-based JRPG, asked which American RPGs he likes: "Oblivion! ME2! BioShock!"

Could well be. The Japanese sense of humor is like that.

Didn't you see that thread in here "the rpg of the decade" where tim cain choose oblivion?

Channeling your inner trollface.

 

[Azrael the cat]

Maybe he's just messing with them. Father of the turn-based JRPG, asked which American RPGs he likes: "Oblivion! ME2! BioShock!"

Could well be. The Japanese sense of humor is like that.

Didn't you see that thread in here "the rpg of the decade" where tim cain choose oblivion?

Channeling your inner trollface.

I'm still not 100% certain that the 'humour' wasn't just Codex wishing. I've certainly never seen anything in Cain's interviews that would indicate he bucks the tide on Bethesda.

There's no shortage of folk who are good designers/artists/writers but praise the most retarded shite. You need to remember their approach to other games is warped somewhat by the fact that they're looking at them not in terms of 'Do I like this? Am I having fun? Is it challenging me?' but rather more like 'Could I have made this? How does this work?'. Cain has never made a TES-style game, and it wouldn't be surprising if he looked at something like Oblivion and thought 'holy crap that game sold SO fucking much. I've never made a game that has come to that much mass appeal, or been so accessible to the wider non-crpg audience!' and been blown away even though his own games are vastly superior.

 

[spekkio]

Question: PC version, yes/no? If no, which systems are they for, which is the best version if there are multiple ones, and are there emulators?

C'mon, guyse... Jarl was certainly trolling. I mean, nobody is THAT lazy... Even Moderators from Germany...

 

[Felix]

Baten Kaitos: Eternal Wings of the Lost Ocean

Remind me I need to pick up a Gamecube controller one of these days.

 

[Mastermind]

there is a distinct lack of tactical options in such a game compared to say Fallout 1/2

 

[Ruprekt]

Maybe he's just messing with them. Father of the turn-based JRPG, asked which American RPGs he likes: "Oblivion! ME2! BioShock!"

Could well be. The Japanese sense of humor is like that.

Didn't you see that thread in here "the rpg of the decade" where tim cain choose oblivion?

Channeling your inner trollface.

I'm still not 100% certain that the 'humour' wasn't just Codex wishing. I've certainly never seen anything in Cain's interviews that would indicate he bucks the tide on Bethesda.

There's no shortage of folk who are good designers/artists/writers but praise the most retarded shite. You need to remember their approach to other games is warped somewhat by the fact that they're looking at them not in terms of 'Do I like this? Am I having fun? Is it challenging me?' but rather more like 'Could I have made this? How does this work?'. Cain has never made a TES-style game, and it wouldn't be surprising if he looked at something like Oblivion and thought 'holy crap that game sold SO fucking much. I've never made a game that has come to that much mass appeal, or been so accessible to the wider non-crpg audience!' and been blown away even though his own games are vastly superior.

I guess it's possible designers appreciate Oblivion for what it is: a let's-pretend toybox and a toolset rather than a game.

You only have to look at the sheer size of the TES modding community, many of whom near-never play the 'game' and yet still get enjoyment from playing with their dolls.