New Vegas gameplay mechanics aren't better than FO3

[Relay]

Really, a summary of your message could be made as "lalalalala I know about everything wrong you are stating what everyone already knows is wrong but it's not so bad since the game's written by Avellone".

That's a flat out lie. Try overpowering Cazadors, Nightstalkers and Deathclaws with 10 in combat skills. There are many skill checks all over the game and lacking skill requirements will lock you out of a large portion of content.

Yes, yes you can. It's not my problem if you can't find creative use for what the game gives you. Most of the game is not spent on dealing with cazadors and deathclaws, you can off them quickly with stealthboys and steady use, the game has overpowered (more than in the first Fallout certainly) drugs and you can find them everywhere, they are to be used the same way you'd do magazines. Really the only skill that is trully necessary and you can't do without is speech and you don't need to max it since with magazines you can +20 for the odd cases. And a bit of Science.
FNV has built-in cheatmode.

And the worst I haven't even mentioned, the newly introduced drug Fixer that removes addiction and you'll get more fixers than you would ever need to have. Really the game pushes you to be overpowered even if you gimped your character since you can gob drugs like candies and remove their addiction on the spot.

Not to mention other minor drugs like.. Turbo, aka bullet mode. Oh the humanity.

As for Nightstalkers, I've already said it : lameduck kitting will do the job just fine. Which, by the way, shows a major difference between a turn based game and a dumb shooter : you can't kite in Fallout since moving would take APs from you.

I wouldn't know that, but there were a few explosive checks in a game that my character couldn't pass, as a result I was unable to follow certain quest paths and reach certain quest solutions (the Vault with escaped prisoners come to mind).

Those are few, though, because the game presents ton of alternatives in most places. For example to get ED-E you can still repair it with no skills in science or repair as long as you get the parts (which feels stupid, because what does it mean when you repair it without parts ? that repair skills makes them appear out of nowhere ? that you don't need tools and at least raw materials ?) most of the skills are just shortcuts rather than quest-enablers.

Why do you lie? Frequency of successful sneak attacks does rise with the increase of the Sneak skill, and this can be a matter of life and death against stronger opponents. ''A bit more damage'' is pretty important when fighting deathclaws.

Did you pick that (bad) habit from Volourn ?

For the few odd cases there are stealthboys, just like there are magazines for the few odd cases where you need +20 in a skill check. I resolved peacefully Cassidy's quest by stealing the keys to the safes from the Van Graff and Crimson Caravan leaders with stealthboys, since I didn't have any skill in lockpick.

Which leads me to that part :

Magazines and the perk are an overpowered combination, but once again you need to resort to lying and exaggeration. 50 in lockpick won't let you pick hard locks, as lock difficulty is incremented by 25.

Lockpick is freaking useless. Most of the loot is useless. The only parts of the game where I'd have a real need for lockpick I could just go by stealing the fucking KEYS. Hell you can open some of the safes and door with hacking. Lockpick is a niche skill that isn't worth spending any points into, the reward is not equal to the loss of skill points that could be put into speech or something else.

I think that the game has more than a few Science checks over 70 (e.g. the one for entering the Strip).

You don't need to do that to enter the strip without racking in the money but I'll let you find how by yourself.

This is correct, though the remaining one third of Barter checks do matter and this is not a small number.

Which one are you talking about ? I haven't seen a solo instance of barter worth taking. That they made two thirds of the barter check be alternatives to speech checks is already pretty lame. It should be one of either, not both.

In short, it is a very good game, much better than Failout 3 and maybe it's the best RPG since Arcanum. Deal with it.

Everyone here needs to have their "best since Arcanum" for some reason, for VD it was Derp Ages, for storyfags it'll be New Vegas, so be it.

Finishing the main quest is quite easy without serious thinking about skill point investment, but huge amount of additional content, which makes F:NV a much better experience, utilizes the skill system in a better way.

I already proved most of it is cosmetics, you can do without for 99% quests, except Speech. You really need speech. You can't even get Cass without speech (you could with barter but since barter is so fucking useless you'd have to be fucked up in the head to chose barter over speech).

 

[cogar48]

 

[MetalCraze]

Relay you don't get it

It has "Obsidian" printed on the box. That's all that matters to people ITT. The same guys who bashed Bethesda for doing shitty gameplay like there is no tomorrow are now go all "oh but just see past those faults and you'll see a shiny Obsidian logo!"

 

[roll-a-die]

Really, a summary of your message could be made as "lalalalala I know about everything wrong you are stating what everyone already knows is wrong but it's not so bad since the game's written by Avellone".

That's a flat out lie. Try overpowering Cazadors, Nightstalkers and Deathclaws with 10 in combat skills. There are many skill checks all over the game and lacking skill requirements will lock you out of a large portion of content.

Yes, yes you can. It's not my problem if you can't find creative use for what the game gives you. Most of the game is not spent on dealing with cazadors and deathclaws, you can off them quickly with stealthboys and steady use, the game has overpowered (more than in the first Fallout certainly) drugs and you can find them everywhere, they are to be used the same way you'd do magazines. Really the only skill that is trully necessary and you can't do without is speech and you don't need to max it since with magazines you can +20 for the odd cases. And a bit of Science.
FNV has built-in cheatmode.

And the worst I haven't even mentioned, the newly introduced drug Fixer that removes addiction and you'll get more fixers than you would ever need to have. Really the game pushes you to be overpowered even if you gimped your character since you can gob drugs like candies and remove their addiction on the spot.

Not to mention other minor drugs like.. Turbo, aka bullet mode. Oh the humanity.

As for Nightstalkers, I've already said it : lameduck kitting will do the job just fine. Which, by the way, shows a major difference between a turn based game and a dumb shooter : you can't kite in Fallout since moving would take APs from you.

All completely true.

I wouldn't know that, but there were a few explosive checks in a game that my character couldn't pass, as a result I was unable to follow certain quest paths and reach certain quest solutions (the Vault with escaped prisoners come to mind).

Those are few, though, because the game presents ton of alternatives in most places. For example to get ED-E you can still repair it with no skills in science or repair as long as you get the parts (which feels stupid, because what does it mean when you repair it without parts ? that repair skills makes them appear out of nowhere ? that you don't need tools and at least raw materials ?) most of the skills are just shortcuts rather than quest-enablers.

ED-E fixing with repair is explained as activating somekind of bypass, or eliminating superfluous components

Why do you lie? Frequency of successful sneak attacks does rise with the increase of the Sneak skill, and this can be a matter of life and death against stronger opponents. ''A bit more damage'' is pretty important when fighting deathclaws.

Did you pick that (bad) habit from Volourn ?

For the few odd cases there are stealthboys, just like there are magazines for the few odd cases where you need +20 in a skill check. I resolved peacefully Cassidy's quest by stealing the keys to the safes from the Van Graff and Crimson Caravan leaders with stealthboys, since I didn't have any skill in lockpick.

Which leads me to that part :

Magazines and the perk are an overpowered combination, but once again you need to resort to lying and exaggeration. 50 in lockpick won't let you pick hard locks, as lock difficulty is incremented by 25.

Lockpick is freaking useless. Most of the loot is useless. The only parts of the game where I'd have a real need for lockpick I could just go by stealing the fucking KEYS. Hell you can open some of the safes and door with hacking. Lockpick is a niche skill that isn't worth spending any points into, the reward is not equal to the loss of skill points that could be put into speech or something else.

There's also a hat/fob that increases lockpick by 5 IIRC.

I think that the game has more than a few Science checks over 70 (e.g. the one for entering the Strip).

You don't need to do that to enter the strip without racking in the money but I'll let you find how by yourself.

Casino's outside the strip have the same payouts for slots, just ta let cha all know.
quote

This is correct, though the remaining one third of Barter checks do matter and this is not a small number.

Which one are you talking about ? I haven't seen a solo instance of barter worth taking. That they made two thirds of the barter check be alternatives to speech checks is already pretty lame. It should be one of either, not both. [/quote]Yerp, also barter can net you more useless caps after you've broken the casino's over your gold plated phallus and gotten 30K caps from each of them.

In short, it is a very good game, much better than Failout 3 and maybe it's the best RPG since Arcanum. Deal with it.

Everyone here needs to have their "best since Arcanum" for some reason, for VD it was Derp Ages, for storyfags it'll be New Vegas, so be it.

If you want ta go gameplay, for meh it's KotC, if ya want ta go story, VtMB is still the best since Planescape. They managed to avoid the "Ugh" that most VtM PnP or LARP campaigns end up in.

Finishing the main quest is quite easy without serious thinking about skill point investment, but huge amount of additional content, which makes F:NV a much better experience, utilizes the skill system in a better way.

I already proved most of it is cosmetics, you can do without for 99% quests, except Speech. You really need speech. You can't even get Cass without speech (you could with barter but since barter is so fucking useless you'd have to be fucked up in the head to chose barter over speech).

I think ya meant skill you rotten fuck wit.

Honestly I'd like to see the leveling system DRASTICALLY reduce skill points you get, IE something like 4 per a level(or about 120 in the whole game if you make it to lvl 30). And reduce SPECIAL standards to 4 for SPECIA and 1 for L, along with making the modify allotment 4. FORCE you to specialize, IE you play a speech char, you better damn well be able to recruit a companion, cuz you're gonna suck with whatever weapon you pick up, and if ya want to speech, you better have expected to suck at guns.

 

[roll-a-die]

Relay you don't get it

It has "Obsidian" printed on the box. That's all that matters to people ITT. The same guys who bashed Bethesda for doing shitty gameplay like there is no tomorrow are now go all "oh but just see past those faults and you'll see a shiny Obsidian logo!"

Oh hush up, it's one of the few decent games we've had in awhile. And I acknowledge it has shitty gameplay, the story makes up for it even more than Alpha Protocol. Alpha Protocol was a turd covered pencil, it had potential to be more, and was still usable, but you really didn't want to hold it or use it, and it tended to annoy people. New Vegas is something like a book with a mass of pages that have been pissed on to the point of still being readable, but it taking some effort to do so. Fallout 3 is just a turd laying on my table. Useless, not entertaining in the least, and frankly a little insulting.

 

[Elwro]

You can kill a troll with a new character in Gothic 2 if you try very hard and have teh skillz0rs

This means it's like totally not worthy to invest in combat-related stats in Gothic 2

in conclusion, the game sucks ass

 

[roll-a-die]

You can kill a troll with a new character in Gothic 2 if you try very hard and have teh skillz0rs

This means it's like totally not worthy to invest in combat-related stats in Gothic 2

in conclusion, the game sucks ass

No this is more of if Gothic 2 spawned invisibility scrolls that boosted your stealth as well as making you invisible, and drugs that allowed you to move and hit twice as fast, from level one.

It's one of the many issues with the balance in the game, that almost always ties back to loot. If you're a story fag though, it tends to be redeemable.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

In Fallout 1, if you didn't invest points in weapon skills, you couldn't even HIT your enemy. In New Vegas you can make a gimp and still manage to score lots of hits. Go, try Fallout 1, make a gimp and try to score a hit with a melee weapon see how it goes.

Cool, but I don't think it really matters since no one gimps their character unless they're trying a gimmicky run

 

[SharkClub]

In Fallout 1, if you didn't invest points in weapon skills, you couldn't even HIT your enemy. In New Vegas you can make a gimp and still manage to score lots of hits. Go, try Fallout 1, make a gimp and try to score a hit with a melee weapon see how it goes.

You know, I finished a Fallout 1 playthrough not that long ago (by that I mean: a week ago). I had about 40% in Small Guns/Big Guns/Energy Weapons for the whole game, but since I had 9 PE I had no trouble hitting things from medium ranges, chance to hit was constantly 60-70%. I used a Rocket Launcher with 40% Big Guns to take out all of the Mariposa Military Base and an Assault Rifle with 40% Small Guns to take out level 1 of the Brotherhood of Steel bunker (not even kidding). What I was going for was a more gimped-thief run, but when I found out that doesn't exactly work with a good Perception I just gave up and started using guns too.

200% Steal
200% Sneak
130% Lockpick
Approx. 40% Small Guns
Approx. 40% Big Guns
Approx. 40% Energy Weapons

 

[Relay]

Relay you don't get it

It has "Obsidian" printed on the box. That's all that matters to people ITT. The same guys who bashed Bethesda for doing shitty gameplay like there is no tomorrow are now go all "oh but just see past those faults and you'll see a shiny Obsidian logo!"

Oh hush up, it's one of the few decent games we've had in awhile. And I acknowledge it has shitty gameplay, the story makes up for it even more than Alpha Protocol. Alpha Protocol was a turd covered pencil, it had potential to be more, and was still usable, but you really didn't want to hold it or use it, and it tended to annoy people. New Vegas is something like a book with a mass of pages that have been pissed on to the point of still being readable, but it taking some effort to do so. Fallout 3 is just a turd laying on my table. Useless, not entertaining in the least, and frankly a little insulting.

It is a somewhat.. decent game, for what it is anyway. Is that what we should be happy with though ? good for what it is (shit). Should we abandon the thought of playing a game at least on the level of Fallout, if not better (it's been 13 years since Fallout, I think it wouldn't be wrong to ask for something that outdoes it.. ?) 13 years after FO1 and this is what a game studio can do best, New Vegas ? do they take pride in their work at Obsidian ?

You can kill a troll with a new character in Gothic 2 if you try very hard and have teh skillz0rs

This means it's like totally not worthy to invest in combat-related stats in Gothic 2

in conclusion, the game sucks ass

No this is more of if Gothic 2 spawned invisibility scrolls that boosted your stealth as well as making you invisible, and drugs that allowed you to move and hit twice as fast, from level one.

It's one of the many issues with the balance in the game, that almost always ties back to loot. If you're a story fag though, it tends to be redeemable.

Stealthboy stats, and you can get one reaaaaally soon into the game and you can find them everywhere (even some of the raiders have it as loot) :
sneak +100 stealth field +75
That's NV for you babe.

In Fallout 1, if you didn't invest points in weapon skills, you couldn't even HIT your enemy. In New Vegas you can make a gimp and still manage to score lots of hits. Go, try Fallout 1, make a gimp and try to score a hit with a melee weapon see how it goes.

You know, I finished a Fallout 1 playthrough not that long ago (by that I mean: a week ago). I had about 40% in Small Guns/Big Guns/Energy Weapons for the whole game, but since I had 9 PE I had no trouble hitting things from medium ranges, chance to hit was constantly 60-70%.

Now try to snipe people with your 40% like you'd do with 40 guns in NV.

With less than 40% in guns you'd be fucked in FO1, in NV you're ok. With just 40% in FO1, you just do ok at midrange, but in NV you can snipe.

 

[SharkClub]

Now try to snipe people with your 40% like you'd do with 40 guns in NV.

Why are you telling me to snipe people? Isn't that meant to be my choice how I want to play the game? My point was is that you can hit people pretty fine if you don't have a high guns skill, and you're really exaggerating its usefulness. Being a fanboy of Fallout and making shit up is just as bad as being a fanboy of New Vegas and making shit up, and Fallout 1 is my favourite game for christ's sake.

Medium ranges with burst fire Assault Rifle + AP ammo = Dead Brotherhood 1st Floor. Using NPCMod, my whole party had a set of Power Armor after that, by the way. Me = the Power Armor from Talus for rescuing the initiate, Tycho = The power armor you have to repair, Katja and Ian = The Power armor you get in the first floor storeroom in the bunker.

Here, have a page stretcher:

This was about half way through my last playthrough, I was going to go do Mariposa and the Cathedral afterwards. 40% in Small Guns, think that over for a second, the only guy who helped was Tycho with his Combat Shotgun, because Ian and Katja would die instantly without Power Armor. That said, Power Armor DT is way unbalanced in both Fallout 1 and 2, the only thing that could kill me in there was critical hits, because all their Gatling Lasers are fucking useless.

Also, I got the dead Rhombus and the Steel Plague ending, which is something I've never seen before.

 

[roll-a-die]

Relay you don't get it

It has "Obsidian" printed on the box. That's all that matters to people ITT. The same guys who bashed Bethesda for doing shitty gameplay like there is no tomorrow are now go all "oh but just see past those faults and you'll see a shiny Obsidian logo!"

Oh hush up, it's one of the few decent games we've had in awhile. And I acknowledge it has shitty gameplay, the story makes up for it even more than Alpha Protocol. Alpha Protocol was a turd covered pencil, it had potential to be more, and was still usable, but you really didn't want to hold it or use it, and it tended to annoy people. New Vegas is something like a book with a mass of pages that have been pissed on to the point of still being readable, but it taking some effort to do so. Fallout 3 is just a turd laying on my table. Useless, not entertaining in the least, and frankly a little insulting.

It is a somewhat.. decent game, for what it is anyway. Is that what we should be happy with though ? good for what it is (shit). Should we abandon the thought of playing a game at least on the level of Fallout, if not better (it's been 13 years since Fallout, I think it wouldn't be wrong to ask for something that outdoes it.. ?) 13 years after FO1 and this is what a game studio can do best, New Vegas ? do they take pride in their work at Obsidian ?

Considering the general quality lax, I think it will take another crash to get the ball rolling on FO/Planescape quality games again.

I'll give it five years before a crash sets in. Times are starting to remind me of the Atari days. Budgets are getting too high, eventually the main pub houses are gonna screw up, have multiple flops in succession. I see EA as the first to go, likely massively downsizing if not completely bankrupting, then Ubi, then probably Activision, likely to the government. Then it'll be about 2-5 years before better games get made. New giants will build themselves, decline will happen, and everything will start over again, such is the industry of making games.

You can kill a troll with a new character in Gothic 2 if you try very hard and have teh skillz0rs

This means it's like totally not worthy to invest in combat-related stats in Gothic 2

in conclusion, the game sucks ass

No this is more of if Gothic 2 spawned invisibility scrolls that boosted your stealth as well as making you invisible, and drugs that allowed you to move and hit twice as fast, from level one.

It's one of the many issues with the balance in the game, that almost always ties back to loot. If you're a story fag though, it tends to be redeemable.

Stealthboy stats, and you can get one reaaaaally soon into the game and you can find them everywhere (even some of the raiders have it as loot) :
sneak +100 stealth field +75
That's NV for you babe.

Yeah, they put it on the fucking chem list, on EVERY chem list. Where each one has a 10% chance to spawn.

 

[made]

"NV is for storyfags"

Hardly. "Go anywhere and do whatever" games aren't really suited for deep story and characters. NV is no exception.

 

[roll-a-die]

"NV is for storyfags"

Hardly. "Go anywhere and do whatever" games aren't really suited for deep story and characters. NV is no exception.

It's more of a go anywhere and hear inane dialogue from people irrelevant to the game anyway.

Really, the writing and general plot are the stand up feature in the game. Quest design and choose your own adventure styling is a tacked on feature to the story that complements it.

Also, I have an offtopic phonetics question, why is here pronounced h-ear, while where, which has the same spelling and presumably the same root word, pronounced Wuh air rather than W-ear?

 

[Roguey]

Initial impression vs hours spent into finishing the game, is that flip flopping ? I made the first comment a bit too hastily. I had no idea, when I was still positive about NV of all the things I brought up here in that thread. When I said it was a great game I had yet to get past Novac, that was the extent of my knowledge of the game.

From that post I linked: "I did a large part of the main quests and ton of the sidequests (most of the NCR) and none broke for me. "

But IN TRUTH you actually only made it up to Novac, right? Are you that nice text-walling programmer fellow?

 

[made]

"Really, the writing and general plot are the stand up feature in the game. Quest design and choose your own adventure styling is a tacked on feature to the story that complements it."

I had the opposite impression. Story and writing just barely good enough (with a few rare examples of excellence) to serve as background motivation for exploration. Only a handful of memorable characters in a vast ocean of disposable NPCs.

Running around the desert & feeling like a space cowboy while listening to country music is where the game really shines.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Initial impression vs hours spent into finishing the game, is that flip flopping ? I made the first comment a bit too hastily. I had no idea, when I was still positive about NV of all the things I brought up here in that thread. When I said it was a great game I had yet to get past Novac, that was the extent of my knowledge of the game.

[Failure] Sorry, not buying it. That was a beautiful flip-flop, alright. In record time too, people usually wait a month or two before deciding the best game ever isn't really that hot. Three months, if they're game journalists.

ffs, drog

 

[MetalCraze]

Oh hush up, it's one of the few decent games we've had in awhile.

You've been saying that about Alpha Protocol a few months back.
Every time some overhyped "RPG" (which is nothing but shooter with dialogues) comes out I hear "oh but it's the only decent game to come out in a while*" over here

*1-2 months

And I acknowledge it has shitty gameplay, the story makes up for it even more than Alpha Protocol.

Why give a shit about story in a shitty game? Go read a book or watch a movie (or tv series) - they provide for a far better "story-driven" experience and last longer than 95% of modern games.

Alpha Protocol was a turd covered pencil, it had potential to be more, and was still usable, but you really didn't want to hold it or use it, and it tended to annoy people.

That's because the technology isn't yet advanced enough to provide for realistic jumping animations

New Vegas is something like a book with a mass of pages that have been pissed on to the point of still being readable, but it taking some effort to do so. Fallout 3 is just a turd laying on my table. Useless, not entertaining in the least, and frankly a little insulting.

Well a couple of months ago you were wanting to tear me a new one for AP and now lookie - it's a turd too. I mean what are the odds that it won't happen to F3NV in a month.

BTW original Fallouts didn't even have a story, concentrating on gameplay instead - and look - far better games. Story should be a welcome addition not the only thing in a game.

 

[Black]

I've figured it all out, it's VD's alt.

 

[Volrath]

New Vegas is a better game then Bloodlines. And I fucking love Bloodlines. There I said it.

 

[Relay]

New Vegas is a better game then Bloodlines. And I fucking love Bloodlines. There I said it.

I fucking hate Bloodlines and anything related to the WoD, better than shit doesn't mean anything to me.

I've figured it all out, it's VD's alt.

I don't know whether I should be flattered or insulted, but no I'm not VD's. And it should be obvious from my writing quirks that English is not my mother tongue. I haven't even spent a single day in an English speaking country.

 

[commie]

You can kill a troll with a new character in Gothic 2 if you try very hard and have teh skillz0rs

This means it's like totally not worthy to invest in combat-related stats in Gothic 2

in conclusion, the game sucks ass

No this is more of if Gothic 2 spawned invisibility scrolls that boosted your stealth as well as making you invisible, and drugs that allowed you to move and hit twice as fast, from level one.

It's one of the many issues with the balance in the game, that almost always ties back to loot. If you're a story fag though, it tends to be redeemable.

Bullshit, you just had to get in close to a troll and strafe around, hacking at it's arse while it tries desperately to turn around. As long as you were quick and kept ahead it could never turn to face you and after 5 minutes or so you'd kill it even with your shitty beginning sword. You don't need drugs or scrolls.

BTW original Fallouts didn't even have a story, concentrating on gameplay instead - and look - far better games. Story should be a welcome addition not the only thing in a game.

No story eh? I must have dreamed that whole 'Vault Dweller find the water chip' thing and the 'Chosen One, get the GECK' bit.

 

[SharkClub]

BTW original Fallouts didn't even have a story, concentrating on gameplay instead - and look - far better games. Story should be a welcome addition not the only thing in a game.

 

[Havoc]

I've figured it all out, it's VD's alt.

I don't know whether I should be flattered or insulted, but no I'm not VD's. And it should be obvious from my writing quirks that English is not my mother tongue. I haven't even spent a single day in an English speaking country.

Pierdolony Polak?

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Skyway, shut the fuck up.

 

[janjetina]

Relay you don't get it

It has "Obsidian" printed on the box. That's all that matters to people ITT. The same guys who bashed Bethesda for doing shitty gameplay like there is no tomorrow are now go all "oh but just see past those faults and you'll see a shiny Obsidian logo!"

Does this imply me as well? Think and do your research before answering.

BTW original Fallouts didn't even have a story

You seem to be confusing story with a plot (which Fallout and Fallout 2 had, but it was an insignificant part of the whole), as well as combat with gameplay. Saying that character interaction with the setting and other characters doesn't factor into RPG gameplay is quite insane. I'd like to direct you to read the following quote, from NMA, which agrees with my view on the story in a RPG:

To me, a role-playing game is first and foremost a story.
Characters are simply part of the story. The actors in the play.
It is their interaction that provides the mechanics for the game to be a story.
It is the player's ability to interact with the story that makes it into a game.