Interesting that you used characters from GSF, somehow I forgot you could do that...
Did you use any additional software like the Goldbox Companion?
There's this endgame fight in Treasures of the Savage Frontier with a lot of enemy fighters, as well as about ten or so spread out high-level clerics who all get to bombard your party with Hold Person before you even get a word in edgewise.
I love Pool of Radiance as much as any grognard, but GSF > COTAB > TSF > SSB > POD is probably a better story and more coherent timeline.
Though you can always do POR > GSF if you don't mind being horribly high level for GSF. That packs in as much goldbox as possible.
I didn’t have any problem going from Curse > TSF > SOTSB, except for some minor item corruption when an item didn’t exist in an earlier game.PoR -> (Curse) -> GSF -> Curse -> SotSB -> (PoD) -> TSF -> PoD
Curious. Did you rename files between games? I wouldn't think of character files with differing sizes to be compatible.I didn’t have any problem going from Curse > TSF > SOTSB, except for some minor item corruption when an item didn’t exist in an earlier game.PoR -> (Curse) -> GSF -> Curse -> SotSB -> (PoD) -> TSF -> PoD
I got all of these games (as well as FRUA) on GOG on the Christmas sale. What order should I play them in if I want the full experience? It seems PoR doesn’t have all of the classes?
I got all of these games (as well as FRUA) on GOG on the Christmas sale. What order should I play them in if I want the full experience? It seems PoR doesn’t have all of the classes?
The Sword Coast series (also set in the Forgotten Realms) is:
Gateway to the Savage Frontier > Treasures of the Savage Frontier
Since there were only two of these...
??? WTF is this crap?I'm pondering around another party for a Krynn run-through.
I used to think of the Krynn games as being more flexible for party composition, since the non-human level caps aren't so braindead as compared to the FR games. But it's really hard to overcome the lust for MOAR POWAH after completing PoD with 6 (essentially) demi-god-dual-classed-munchkins, 4 of them being active mages... *sigh*
So I want to try playing the Krynn games without memorizing FB or DBF. Evah.
To compensate, I'll allow myself to cheat a bit more than just maxing stats. Envisioned party:
WTF? Why?
- F | Human | Knight
- M | M-Dwarf | Fighter
- M | Q-Elf | Fighter/Red Robe
- F | Q-Elf | Fighter/Red Robe
- F | Kender | Kiri-Jolith Cleric/Thief
- ? | S-Elf | White Robe
0. I like to have chics around. For purely aesthetic reasons, I assure you. Feminism is a plague, that has spread its poisonous influence throughout the multiverse, and has also infected Krynn. So the warrior-chics'll go to the gym until they achieve gender parity with STR 18(00). That's where a new tinker gomnish invention comes into play, the so-called "hex editor".
1. It's a Krynn game, so there has to be a knight. She'll limp around at level 18 for a long time (reading books about druids in Toril), but that's the price to pay for a multi-class-in-disguise.
2. To compensate for shorty's male deficiencies in height, he'll acompany the chics to the gym to become a small hill giant. +1 testosterone(*). Screw feminism. Also, he'll be a fast levelling meat grinder with a shitload of HP and the best saves around. (*STR 19)
3./4. Stuck at level 14 as fighters in DQK, but only leveling a bit slower compared to a FR magic-user as red robes. Good enough.
5. I ditched her last time after DKK, because she sucked in DQK. And not in a good way. To keep her around this time, I'll upgrade her WIS to 18 and will try to circumvent the level cap with hex-editing. First choice for Gauntlets of Ogre Power.
6. Fast-leveling nuker vs. draconian magic resistance. Unsure about the portrait in DQK, so sex may change depending on mood. I think I'll call it Edwin(a).
After proof-reading, I think I'll realize that I need to get drunk really fast now.
Cone of Cold vs Fireshielded enemies. If they fail their save, they are looking at damage in the thousands.Dissenting view: single-class mages are HUGELY useful in Dark Queen of Krynn as they rapidly get to levels where draconian magic resistance can simply be ignored.
I made it through all 3 games with:
Human Knight
Kender Cleric Kiri-Jolith/Thief
1 Qualinesti Ranger/Cleric Mishakal
1 Qualinesti Ranger/Cleric Majere
1 Human White Robe
1 Human Red Robe
Not having a neutral cleric meant I didn't have 7th level spells in Death Knights of Krynn but it wasn't the end of the world. And it was worth it tossing the Fireballs and Delayed Blast Fireballs on the draconians and watching them blow each other up.
Lots of different ways to win the game!
4. Kenders are absolute crap, and they have a level 10/12 cap as Clerics. That means you are not getting even Heal as a spell, IIRC. In DQK, your level cap is 40. That means you are playing as a substandard Thief for most of the series for very little gain. Remember that Clerics in the Krynn series are pretty much healbots after the first few levels, when their Hold Person becomes obsolete. You are better off getting your Knight to Sword Order and using him as the healbot.
You get multiple +4 Mace, a strength girdle and strength gauntlets in DKK. In DQK, you get a +3/+4 flail before you even get to Taladas. Skeletal Warriors are the least of your worries.4. Kenders are absolute crap, and they have a level 10/12 cap as Clerics. That means you are not getting even Heal as a spell, IIRC. In DQK, your level cap is 40. That means you are playing as a substandard Thief for most of the series for very little gain. Remember that Clerics in the Krynn series are pretty much healbots after the first few levels, when their Hold Person becomes obsolete. You are better off getting your Knight to Sword Order and using him as the healbot.
Kenders are the only ones who can do real damage to Skeletal Warriors, of which there are lots in Death Knight. A Kender Cleric/Thief with a magic Hoopak and buffed with Enlarge (lasts for hours once you Mage gains some levels) can backstab them for signicant damage, while spells are ineffective and warriors with sword do minor damage.
Kenders are also immune to Fear and have the Taunt ability.
You also should have a single class mage since the higher your level the higher the chance of penetrating the magic resistance of the myriad of Enchanted Daraconians in Dark Queen.
You wander around the map. That is the whole point of DKK. The main plot was pretty short. It is the early open world thing that made DKK good. If you want plot only, then play DQK.Skeletal Warriors were actually some of the most of my worries in DKK.
Unless you meta-game you are not guarenteed to get those nice items before entering the High Clerist Tower.
Not intentionally. I remember I did do POR > (Curse) > GSF > Curse. But that was serendipity because I went and got the Dust of Disappearance before exporting to GSF. So I probably dodged a bullet there by complete coincidence. Going from GSF back to Curse had some item corruption, but otherwise worked fine. Then after Curse I went straight to TSF without stopping anywhere else and had no issues. Of course, when I went from TSF to SOTSB there was item corruption as well, but otherwise that worked.Curious. Did you rename files between games? I wouldn't think of character files with differing sizes to be compatible.
Krynn has a different item structure to the rest of the GB games. The races and classes are different also. Some mechanics were added (orders of wizards, deities, moons, etc.).Not intentionally. I remember I did do POR > (Curse) > GSF > Curse. But that was serendipity because I went and got the Dust of Disappearance before exporting to GSF. So I probably dodged a bullet there by complete coincidence. Going from GSF back to Curse had some item corruption, but otherwise worked fine. Then after Curse I went straight to TSF without stopping anywhere else and had no issues. Of course, when I went from TSF to SOTSB there was item corruption as well, but otherwise that worked.Curious. Did you rename files between games? I wouldn't think of character files with differing sizes to be compatible.
But I could never import to Krynn successfully.
Skeletal Warriors were actually some of the most of my worries in DKK.
I didn’t have any problem going from Curse > TSF > SOTSB, except for some minor item corruption when an item didn’t exist in an earlier game.
Not intentionally. I remember I did do POR > (Curse) > GSF > Curse. But that was serendipity because I went and got the Dust of Disappearance before exporting to GSF. So I probably dodged a bullet there by complete coincidence. Going from GSF back to Curse had some item corruption, but otherwise worked fine. Then after Curse I went straight to TSF without stopping anywhere else and had no issues. Of course, when I went from TSF to SOTSB there was item corruption as well, but otherwise that worked.Curious. Did you rename files between games? I wouldn't think of character files with differing sizes to be compatible.
??? WTF is this crap?
1. There are level caps in all three games. You WILL hit level caps with single-class characters (except Knight of the Rose) in the first two games less than half-way through the game. There is absolutely no reason not to multiclass. None.
2. Qualinesti triple class F/M/C is good enough for all three games, especially if you play Dave's Challenge in the second one, which will send you to the 14/14/14 level cap easily. It is the only place in all three games where you require a thief, IIRC, so play with a F/M/T in the party.
3. Knight is a good idea, but realise that your chance to control NPCs are tied to your Knight order, not level. Knight of the Crown, you have bupkiss chance of controlling NPCs in combat. Swords have about 50%, Rose is always. Crowns have the lowest XP requirement, but they can't cast spells. Swords have the same casting ability as Rose, but a lower XP requirement.
4. Kenders are absolute crap, and they have a level 10/12 cap as Clerics. That means you are not getting even Heal as a spell, IIRC.
5. I ditched her last time after DKK, because she sucked in DQK. And not in a good way. To keep her around this time, I'll upgrade her WIS to 18 and will try to circumvent the level cap with hex-editing. First choice for Gauntlets of Ogre Power.
In DQK, your level cap is 40. That means you are playing as a substandard Thief for most of the series for very little gain. Remember that Clerics in the Krynn series are pretty much healbots after the first few levels, when their Hold Person becomes obsolete. You are better off getting your Knight to Sword Order and using him as the healbot.
If you want to play a versatile party, I'd recommend the following:
Human Knight (get to Sword ASAP and stay there until level 18, where you have to switch to Rose to level further, IIRC).
4x Qualinesti F/M/C Kiri-Jolith
1x Qualinesti F/M/T Red Robe
Alternatively, if you dislike triple class, then do this:
2 Human Knight
2 Qualinesti Fighter/Mage White Robe Kiri-Jolith
1 Qualinesti Thief/Mage Red Robe
1 spare slot for whatever you like
When you start with 14/14/14 across the board in DQK, it doesn't matter if you are triple class. Especially if you are good enough to be ready to level all 3 when DQK starts. But whatever you want. The game isn't hard enough to actually need that kind of setup. It is merely the powergaming and versatility of the thing where one guy can pick up what needs to be done if he happens to go first rather than wait for the next guy, especially when the enemy is slinging multiple DBF in your direction as their preferred opening gambit.??? WTF is this crap?
I won't have to argue with you much, because I mostly agree with your arguments, but I somewhat debate if you even tried to understand what I've written before you started to answer.
1. There are level caps in all three games. You WILL hit level caps with single-class characters (except Knight of the Rose) in the first two games less than half-way through the game. There is absolutely no reason not to multiclass. None.
How about faster levelling for DQK? While your mileage may vary, that is enough of a reason for my envisioned campaign. I won't add anything more here, because 1 > none, so that's enough.
2. Qualinesti triple class F/M/C is good enough for all three games, especially if you play Dave's Challenge in the second one, which will send you to the 14/14/14 level cap easily. It is the only place in all three games where you require a thief, IIRC, so play with a F/M/T in the party.
DKK is by far the easiest of the Krynn games in my experience, so I don't plan my PCs to peak for that game. Dave's Challenge is more like Dave's Playground, the real challenge is the one in PoD. Triple class PCs will lag too far behind in DQK, where beating magical resistances with higher level PCs really matters.
3. Knight is a good idea, but realise that your chance to control NPCs are tied to your Knight order, not level. Knight of the Crown, you have bupkiss chance of controlling NPCs in combat. Swords have about 50%, Rose is always. Crowns have the lowest XP requirement, but they can't cast spells. Swords have the same casting ability as Rose, but a lower XP requirement.
I had a 100% leadership quote of success with a Knight of the Sword (CHA 18) in every DKK playthrough in the past. I don't expect this to change suddenly. One just needs to keep an eye not to "upgrade" to Rose before the Knight's XP is enough to stay at level 18 as Rose.
4. Kenders are absolute crap, and they have a level 10/12 cap as Clerics. That means you are not getting even Heal as a spell, IIRC.
Oh, look what I said - there's even a link to an older post hidden in there!
5. I ditched her last time after DKK, because she sucked in DQK. And not in a good way. To keep her around this time, I'll upgrade her WIS to 18 and will try to circumvent the level cap with hex-editing. First choice for Gauntlets of Ogre Power.
In DQK, your level cap is 40. That means you are playing as a substandard Thief for most of the series for very little gain. Remember that Clerics in the Krynn series are pretty much healbots after the first few levels, when their Hold Person becomes obsolete. You are better off getting your Knight to Sword Order and using him as the healbot.
See, I powergame, I max stats, but I also like versatility and some balance. That's why I like to think of myself as a "balanced powergamer". (Ambiguity FTW!)
Since Kenders are so integral to Krynn, I simply want one in my party this time around. I already have 3 mages, so WTF if I carry around some (almost) dead weight. I think I'll get her around the level limit, so that's fine. Raising WIS to 18 gets around the spell level limitation, which isn't implemented in DKK, but is in DQK (so you'll get L6 cleric spells with a kender in DKK, but lose access to them when transfering to DQK).
Also, I want to use a fucking Hoopak! Me not care if that sucks!
If you want to play a versatile party, I'd recommend the following:
Human Knight (get to Sword ASAP and stay there until level 18, where you have to switch to Rose to level further, IIRC).
4x Qualinesti F/M/C Kiri-Jolith
1x Qualinesti F/M/T Red Robe
5 triple classes in DQK?
Alternatively, if you dislike triple class, then do this:
2 Human Knight
2 Qualinesti Fighter/Mage White Robe Kiri-Jolith
1 Qualinesti Thief/Mage Red Robe
1 spare slot for whatever you like
While this is better, again, this. And if you'll look closely, your party doesn't differ that much from my WTF-party. My take:
Cheers.
- the dwarven fighter outperforms a knight as a warrior since he levels faster, and has crazy saves on top; one cleric substitue is enough.
- multiclass Red Robes need only 400K per level, compared to 500K for White Robes, so me win.
- I'm pretty fond of the Thief/Red Robe myself, hence I had two in my last party. Already got 2 F/RR, and...
- 1 spare slot = single class White Robe -> "Fast-leveling nuker vs. draconian magic resistance." BOO!
- already got 3 mages? K, let's take some dead weight with us and go for level-uncapped Kender C/Th! Yeah!