Gold Box SSI's Gold Box Series Thread

[v1rus]

Which of the Gold Box games are worth a play, and how did they stand the test of time?

Krynn series and Savage Frontier series.

Krynn is level 1 to 40. The last game is definitely crazy with the set piece combats.

Savage Frontier is far lower level. You'd reach the level caps very easily, though. Fun unique magic items for its time.

They are not too bad, but bear in mind that Gold Box is less RP and more tactical combat.

What about Pool of Radiance? Afaik, its been a favorite everywhere.

Also, what about plot? I guess its your standard DnD session kind of writing (which I dont mind, at all) but how important and good is it?

 

[Cael]

Which of the Gold Box games are worth a play, and how did they stand the test of time?

Krynn series and Savage Frontier series.

Krynn is level 1 to 40. The last game is definitely crazy with the set piece combats.

Savage Frontier is far lower level. You'd reach the level caps very easily, though. Fun unique magic items for its time.

They are not too bad, but bear in mind that Gold Box is less RP and more tactical combat.

What about Pool of Radiance? Afaik, its been a favorite everywhere.

Also, what about plot? I guess its your standard DnD session kind of writing (which I dont mind, at all) but how important and good is it?

PoR is OK. I never found it as good as people says it is.

The plot depends on which one you are looking at, but most of them can be summarised as "X wants to take over the world. Go to Y, then Z, then A and stop X."

Treasures of the Savage Frontier has a couple of puzzle gimmicks in it that makes it pretty unique.

The Krynn series is just crazy with the combat. Less puzzles, a bit more open world, but the set piece combats are fantastic.

Gold Box doesn't really lend itself to riveting storytelling. Most of your information, conversation and the like would be in the form of a text box that you won't be able to interact with. At best you have the choice to be peaceful, to attack or to threaten. Dark Queen of Krynn, the last of the Krynn series probably gave you the most number of choices per box, but that has more to do with a puzzle in the game than anything else.

This guy did LPs of both the Krynn series and the Savage Frontier series. They are pretty good.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Which of the Gold Box games are worth a play, and how did they stand the test of time?

Start with Pool of Radiance (1988) and Champions of Krynn (1990) and then proceed from there in each of the 2 main Gold Box series (FR series has 4 games, Dragonlance series has 3 games). PoR has the advantage of a non-linear structure, while CoK has a better setting and ties in with the original Dragonlance novels. The Gold Box system was designed for lower-level adventures and works splendidly for them, but has increasing difficulty replicating AD&D as character levels increase due to a lack of versatility; in particular, combat becomes highly dependent on gaining initiative and devastating the enemy with spell effects before they have the opportunity to do the same to you. That being said, if you enjoy Pool of Radiance and Champions of Krynn, which are both classics, you'll like at least a few more games in the Gold Box series, e.g. The Curse of the Azure Bonds (1989) and Death Knights of Krynn (1991).

 

[GarfunkeL]

They are all worth playing and it's best to do them in chronological order as the engine got improved over time and it can be difficult to go from newer versions to older versions. Remember that you can bring your party with you from game to game in the same series. So:

Pool of Radiance -> Curse of Azure Bonds -> Secret of the Silver Blades -> Pool of Darkness

Champions of Krynn -> Death Knights of Krynn -> Dark Queen of Krynn

Gateway to Savage Frontier - Treasures of the Savage Frontier / and of course the two Buck Rogers games.

Hillsfar is a gimmick game with action sequences that can be inserted between PoR and CoAB if you really want to experience everything.

 

[Dorateen]

Actually, most of the text in the Gold Box series is delivered through each game's Adventurer Journal. The quality of writing is appropriate for creating a pen and paper type experience, and there is a lot to dig through. If you take the four Moonsea titles as one sweeping saga, it is a rich plot that all ties in together.

 

[ProphetSword]

I will also say that all of them are worth a play.

Pool of Radiance is a classic that shouldn't be missed. There's some great stuff in it that makes for a fun play even in this day and age. Don't listen to anyone who tells you the interface is hard, or that you should skip it because it doesn't have classes that appear later in the series. It's a piece of CRPG history that everyone should experience at least once.

 

[newtmonkey]

I read this whole thread from beginning to end over a couple of lazy (and somewhat drunk) nights. It's a treasure trove of information, so thanks all for posting.

A while back I got some physical copies of the two "limited collectors's edition" packs (PoR through SotSS, and the Krynn trilogy). These are really nice packages with basically everything that came with the originals games plus some extras (hint books for some of the games). Opening the first box was quite the nostalgia rush, as I had Pool of Radiance back in the day on the C64.

I got these because a while back I decided I'd play through at the very least PoR, hopefully the entire Gold Box series if I felt up to it, but reading PDF scans of the manuals, etc. just didn't feel right. It's just dumb nostalgia, but I really enjoy flipping through the books to look up stats and journal entries, etc.

I did start a game of PoR a couple years back and really enjoyed it, but got sidetracked with work. So after reading about Gold Box Companion here in this thread, I decided to start over with a new party.

Pool of Radiance (PC)
I really want to use the same party through all four games, though if Pools of Darkness gets too ridiculous, I'll probably end up not finishing that one (or maybe just making a new party for that game only). I've got
Human Fighter
Human Fighter
Human Cleric
Dwarf Fighter/Thief
Human Magic-user
Human Magic-user

I rerolled stats until I got somewhat decent ones. Made sure to get 18 in STR for my fighters, 18 WIS for my cleric, and 18 INT for my MUs. I also tried to get decent CON and DEX for all, but didn't go crazy rerolling. I ended up with decent stats without having to reroll much at all, and my party was all generated within 10 mins or so.

When I first attempted to replay this a couple years ago, I was drawing maps on graph paper and really didn't mind it at all. However, this time around I am using Gold Box Companion, and it's really great. The automap is nice I guess, but I don't think the Goldbox games are really well-known for their mapping challenges, so I guess it doesn't matter. Actually, a nice automap makes even more sense in this case, since part of the fun of playing something like Wiz is fucking your maps up due to teleporters, spinners, etc. Here it's just drawing lines and doors in most cases, so I don't really feel like I missing anything by not hand drawing stuff.

So far I've got much of the Slums explored and have leveled up at least once with each character, things are going pretty well I guess.

I really do like the unique setup for this game. Yes, you are just being sent on a mission to wipe out monsters, but I like how they set the mission up as a group of mercenaries reclaiming territory in this frontier sort of town, at the behest of bureaucrats. Like all the best RPGs, you're free to explore areas that severely outclass you at the start, but also like the best RPGs, it doesn't force you to bash your head against the wall of a hard encounter, since you have other options usually (the troll encounter in the slums is a good example; you can hire some help and hope you get lucky at a low level, or you can ignore it and come back once you're more powerful).

The interface takes some getting used to (though its certainly easier playing it on keyboard instead of joystick on my C64 haha), but I think it's aged very well. Even the EGA graphics are quite nice (except for character portraits, which are all awful). I guess if I had any complaints its that turning sound ON introduces a delay when walking, so I turned that off straight away.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Hello, it's me, your friendly black silhouette who follows you around and replies to all your posts. I'm jealous of your boxed copies.
Anyway, PoR is one of the best games ever as far as I'm concerned. It's rare to find an RPG that just gets better and better.

I really want to use the same party through all four games

You're gimping yourself if you do, unfortunately, since CotAB introduces more classes, one of which is a strict upgrade over a regular fighter. Some people also swear by multi/dualclassing shenanigans, but I think you'll be fine (for a good long while, at least). That party setup is the exact same I used the last time I played, abandoned in CotAB inside a beholder lair I'd stupidly made my way into and then saved inside, so I couldn't get out.

When I first attempted to replay this a couple years ago, I was drawing maps on graph paper and really didn't mind it at all. However, this time around I am using Gold Box Companion, and it's really great. The automap is nice I guess, but I don't think the Goldbox games are really well-known for their mapping challenges, so I guess it doesn't matter. Actually, a nice automap makes even more sense in this case, since part of the fun of playing something like Wiz is fucking your maps up due to teleporters, spinners, etc. Here it's just drawing lines and doors in most cases, so I don't really feel like I missing anything by not hand drawing stuff.

For what it's worth, I enjoyed mapping this game. The ingame map is available in most areas (you can even move around while on the map screen, something I didn't figure out until I was nearing the end my first time through ), and the rest were enjoyable to figure out even though, as you say, they're not all that sadomasochistic in their design. There are actually a few teleporters in a certain area, and I enjoyed figuring out the final "dungeon", which I'm not sure I could have done if I hadn't mapped out the whole thing. It's not a big undertaking, because, again, the ingame map covers most areas.

Even the EGA graphics are quite nice (except for character portraits, which are all awful).

Excuse me??

I'm surprised CRPGAddict is still with us after playing through this one.

 

[newtmonkey]

Strange Fellow
The boxed copies were actually pretty cheap on ebay, it's just shipping them all the way here that was expensive (more than doubled the price). There were a ton of games for which I wanted boxed copies, but the shipping here just makes it impossible. I settled for a handful of games with superior packaging that I really enjoyed back in the day.

I understand that I am gimping my party by playing it straight through the series (no access to Paladins and Rangers), but I think it will be fun and/or frustrating. I can still dual class the humans down the line right (fighter/mage or fighter/cleric, etc.)? I'm glad to hear I'm using the same party you did, I did a lot of research (mostly just reading this thread haha) and figured this would be the best balance between "fun" and "possible" to play the same party at least through the first three games. I do save on multiple slots, so hopefully I won't run into the problem that stopped your CotAB game.

I guess when you say it like that, mapping is enjoyable in this game. I do appreciate a good mapping puzzle, but it's also nice to just be mapping a "realistic" dungeon rather than something that is clearly a game like in Wiz or Bard's Tale. Well, that is how I justify using Gold Box Companion to myself, anyway.

The tranny portaits are the exception to the rule in PoR, as far as I am concerned.

 

[ProphetSword]

Pool of Radiance is a classic game that deserves more love than I feel it gets in this day and age. There are other great games in the series, some of which do things better than Pool of Radiance and add some much needed features (more classes, FIX, more intricate plots, etc), but none of that tarnishes the legacy of the original.

Enjoy your time exploring it. I wish I could erase my memories of the game so that I could rediscover it as a brand new game again.

 

[newtmonkey]

I went and read CRPGAddict's first couple of posts on PoR. Pretty interesting!

I'm glad he stopped writing the posts as stories. That was pretty weird tbh.

He seemed to get a lot wrong early on, but that makes sense since he goes in basically without spoilers or whatever.

I got a kick out of his comment on the level 2 cleric spells ("seems like everything a married man would need") THOUGH TOTALLY PROBLEMATIC (find traps, silence, hold person) XD

[Edit] Some very interesting information in the comments ProphetSword

"Additionally, Silence is great versus enemy mages and clerics (especially clerics, since they are effective with Hold Person). One trick I learned is to hit one of my own warriors with Silence and have them go stand next to the spell-casters (since the spell has a 15' radius). Works great most of the time."

:O I will be using that!!!!

[EDIT] OF COURSE some doofus in the comments has got to recommend the NES version. You cannot fucking escape Nintendo games. For fuck's sake. The NES version of PoR is inferior in every fucking way, and here comes some guy with THE GRAPHICS ARE PRETTY NICE ON THE NINTENDO

 

[ProphetSword]

[Edit] Some very interesting information in the comments ProphetSword

"Additionally, Silence is great versus enemy mages and clerics (especially clerics, since they are effective with Hold Person). One trick I learned is to hit one of my own warriors with Silence and have them go stand next to the spell-casters (since the spell has a 15' radius). Works great most of the time."

:O I will be using that!!!!

Thanks. For some reason, it's a lot easier to get your own guys to fail their saving throws against Silence than it is to actually hit the enemy. This may be on purpose, though, since the AD&D rules specify that a saving throw is only warranted if the creature is an unwilling recipient. Can't confirm if SSI followed that rule as intended or not.

Toss it on the Fighter who is planning to wade into combat, run up to enemy casters, and not only is he in their face, he's preventing them from casting. I wouldn't even call it cheesy, since it's something you can also do in a pen-and-paper AD&D game.

[EDIT] OF COURSE some doofus in the comments has got to recommend the NES version. You cannot fucking escape Nintendo games. For fuck's sake. The NES version of PoR is inferior in every fucking way, and here comes some guy with THE GRAPHICS ARE PRETTY NICE ON THE NINTENDO

The NES version of Pool of Radiance is complete cancer. I don't know how anyone could like it better than the PC version. Besides, if someone wants to play a version different than the PC version, they could opt for the Amiga version that has some much better artwork, the Macintosh version that has a unique artistic take on the game or the Commodore 64 version that has superior sound. The NES version is incredibly inferior and I will never understand what anyone sees in it. Don't even get me started on the graphics.

 

[moleman]

Pool of Radiance is a classic game that deserves more love than I feel it gets in this day and age...

I absolutely agree.

More love for the Gold Box Games. I'm in.
Inspired by Dorateen's recent post about Pool of Radiance's 30th anniversary, I decided to go on a monumental quest.
Play a party from PoR all the way through PoD. Never did that before, because PoD never released for the C64.
I was a bit concerned at first, because I haven't played these games for at least 25 years and might destroy my nostalgia induced love for them.

But my fears were unfounded. I must say it plays surprisingly well today. Exploration and combat are both fantastic in PoR.
Already have cleared most of the city. Next mission: clean Barren river of pollution.

My party setup:

Human fighter
Human fighter
Dwarven fighter
Human cleric
Half-Elf fighter/thief
Elven magic-user

I was planning to switch one of the human fighters to ranger in CotAB. My memory may play tricks on me, but I think this was possible?

 

[newtmonkey]

ProphetSword
Thanks for the additional info on Silence!

The Nintendo stuff... there's just a fetish for Nintendo all over the Internet. Don't get me wrong, I had a Nintendo when I was younger. But no matter where you go, Nintendo fans are infiltrating everything. Podcast about fucking Amiga games? There is gonna be some guy calling in talking about how awesome Starfox was. Talking about Might & Magic? Some guy is definitely gonna chime in with how Zelda is the best RPG ever (you play the role of Link).

 

[octavius]

All the young and immature kids had Nintendos, while older and more mature kids had computers.
The older and more mature kids mostly grew up, and are no longer gaming. The Nintendo kids didn't.

 

[mondblut]

Human fighter
Human fighter
Dwarven fighter
Human cleric
Half-Elf fighter/thief
Elven magic-user

If you plan to go past POR with that party, forget demihumans. Other than thieves (and why would you want one?) they are crippled by 1st ed AD&D level limits. You elf magic user will be stuck at level 11 forever, and half-elf fighter at, like, 6.

I was planning to switch one of the human fighters to ranger in CotAB. My memory may play tricks on me, but I think this was possible?

No, you can't dualclass from one warrior class to another (and even if you could, that would be wasteful, as the whole point of dualclassing is to take a beefy warrior and slap an ubermage on top of it).

You can always replace fighters with brand new characters though.

 

[Strange Fellow]

A fighter/thief is nice, for those sweet backstab multipliers. They're a godsend in CotAB's early game, before you get magical equipment.

 

[ProphetSword]

If you plan to go past POR with that party, forget demihumans. Other than thieves (and why would you want one?) they are crippled by 1st ed AD&D level limits. You elf magic user will be stuck at level 11 forever, and half-elf fighter at, like, 6.

I'm going to disagree with this. I haven't had any issues playing multiclassed demihumans. One of the characters I took through the series all the way to the end of Pools of Darkness was a half-elf Fighter/Cleric/Magic-User and he did just fine. He had less hit points overall, but still had plenty of spells that worked just fine even against high level monsters and was able to heal and buff the party when needed. He came in handy whenever the single-classed spell casters were low on spells and having another Fighter in the battle to soak up hits never hurts (despite level limits, he can still get his AC as high as all the other warriors).

On paper, they probably seem suboptimal, but having an extra Haste spell ready to go or a Silence spell while being able to stand on the front lines isn't a terrible thing.

 

[octavius]

A fighter/thief is nice, for those sweet backstab multipliers. They're a godsend in CotAB's early game, before you get magical equipment.

Yeah, I wish I has several Fighter/Thieves in Hap and the cave below.
Backstabbing is definitely the best way to deal with Drow untill your mages are high enough level to breach their magic resistance.

 

[Dedup]

If you plan to go past POR with that party, forget demihumans. Other than thieves (and why would you want one?) they are crippled by 1st ed AD&D level limits. You elf magic user will be stuck at level 11 forever, and half-elf fighter at, like, 6.

If he's willing to cheat a bit, he can use Goldbox Companion to bypass the level limits.

No, you can't dualclass from one warrior class to another

I don't think this is accurate for the Goldbox games. I used dual 2 of my fighters from PoR to a Paladin and a Ranger in CotAB when I was young. You do need the requisite stats and alignment though. I'm not sure about dualling a Ranger to a Paladin and vice versa though as I've never tried that. But you are right in that it's not really efficient at all.

 

[Sinatar]

Gold Box companion has an option called "Race Hack", you hit that and it turns your whole party human, you do your levels then hit "Restore Races" and it sets everyone back so you don't have to worry about the retarded demi human level restriction bullshit.

Just don't race hack and forget to restore and cast haste on your party, cause they'll all die from shock being 300+ years old.

 

[moleman]

If you plan to go past POR with that party, forget demihumans. Other than thieves (and why would you want one?) they are crippled by 1st ed AD&D level limits. You elf magic user will be stuck at level 11 forever, and half-elf fighter at, like, 6.

Thanks for the hint, mate.
I was just checking PoDs manual. Seems that max-level for my dwarven fighter is level 9, too.
I think I will kick him in CotAB for a Paladin or a Ranger.

The dirty elf will be kicked for a human immediately.

Edit:

Gold Box companion has an option called "Race Hack", you hit that and it turns your whole party human, you do your levels then hit "Restore Races" and it sets everyone back so you don't have to worry about the retarded demi human level restriction bullshit.

I will consider that, thanks.

 

[Breshard]

Just be aware if you use the race hack to bypass level limits with the Goldbox companion that the multi-class characters will be quite gimped compared to a dual-classed human by the end of Pools of Darkness. I did a playthrough of all 4 games a year or two ago using the race hack with about half my party as demi-humans and there was like 50-60 hp difference between my human frontliners and demi-humans iirc. I didn't maximize hp gain on level like some people do, so it's possible if you do that as well the end hp's would be closer.

 

[ProphetSword]

There's two ways to approach this series. You can either do as some people suggest and go for optimal human party using newfangled tools like a casual gamer, or you can go full hardcore mode and play the game as intended in full 1980s AD&D style with a party of mixed races and beat the game on the merits of your skill.

C'mon, I know you want to stand toe-to-toe with the hardcore AD&D Gold-Box crowd. Just do it.

 

[agentorange]

All the young and immature kids had Nintendos, while older and more mature kids had computers.
The older and more mature kids mostly grew up, and are no longer gaming. The Nintendo kids didn't.

What if I had a computer, grew up, and am still gaming on a computer?

Also if I get the GOG versions of these are there any additional patches/fixes that I should download for them? Is this Goldbox Companion a must?