Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[passerby]

You always take advantage of the pause and the AI can't handle it. Also, it becomes a total clusterfuck where you can't see wtf is happening, which leads to even more pause and micromanagement.

But the same pause and micromanagement is perfectly fine when it's streamlined, forced and stretched over 5x longer timeframe and god forbid you can't admire in awe glorious walking, whacking and spell animations one at a time for thousands times.

In BG is always a matter of quantity over quality. You have plenty of quests, items, and encounters, but the quality of most of it is debatable.

5x more trash mobs, or 5x more time wasted to kill a single trash mob, which kind of filler shit is better and why, discuss.

What matters is whether it has more tactical depth.

This is why RTwP is superior by definition, because it adds another layer of depth with simultaneous movement and actions, without sacrificing anything of value from TB rules.

"But it adds pacing!", screams your inner retard. That’s like saying that overpowered weapons add character progression and nonsensical characters are fun. It’s retarded territory and I’m not going there.

Like most people with limited cognitive ability, you are unaware of your limitations and project onto others your difficulties with processing more than one piece of information at a time.
In reality we can deploy the same depth of decision making as in TB, without having our brains shut down out of boredom, due to dilluted intellectual stimuli and sanity loss from watching the same slow animations for hours.

 

[Deleted Member 22431]

But the same pause and micromanagement is perfectly fine when it's streamlined, forced and stretched over 5x longer timeframe and god forbid you can't admire in awe glorious walking, whacking and spell animations one at a time for thousands times.

There is no need for excessive micromanagement in turn-based combat, it is not streamlined or forced. You have to provide actual examples to defend your point.

5x more trash mobs, or 5x more time wasted to kill a single trash mob, which kind of filler shit is better and why, discuss.

How about no trash mobs and decent encounter design for a change? If the idea is that we need RTwP because a developer is filling the map with trash mobs, then the game is not worth anyway.

This is why RTwP is superior by definition, because it adds another layer of depth with simultaneous movement and actions, without sacrificing anything of value from TB rules.

It sacrifices plenty. First, you have the upper hand because you can pause multiple times. In turn-based combat, once you made your decisions, you are done. You need to wait for the decisions of your enemy. It rewards better decision making and planning. The simultaneous movement would be great if it wasn’t a mess.

In reality we can deploy the same depth of decision making as in TB, without having our brains shut down out of boredom, due to dilluted intellectual stimuli and sanity loss from watching the same slow animations for hours.

The point is that you don't need to have the same depth of decision making because RTwP is inherently inferior since it gives you an unfair advantage. The remedy for slow animations is faster animations, not a clusterfuck system. If you are too bored to play a cRPG with a proper tactical system, you should play MMOs or shooters. They would be more fitting to your personality. What we shouldn’t do is turn the tactical combat system into a clusterfuck to appease people that have no business playing these games. It’s like complaining that your gameplay is restricted by stats and character building, instead of reflexes. Of course it is, it’s a goddamn cRPG, not an action game.

 

[anvi]

This game will be postponed a year I bet. If not more.

 

[BarbequeMasta]

The closer it is to WOTR the worst it'll feel in comparison though.

 

[DraQ]

a 4th ed D&D game should use a...

dumpster fire to be thrown into.

You're welcome.

 

[Sweeper]

That’s like saying that overpowered weapons add character progression and nonsensical characters are fun. It’s retarded territory and I’m not going there.

"You're wrong cause I say so"

 

[Grotesque]

"the A.I. can decide to shoot a barrel near the hero if the A.I. concludes that in the barrel can be some liquid that provides "difficult terrain".

Spoiler

THE END.

 

[Stella Brando]

The closer it is to WOTR the worst it'll feel in comparison though.

War of the Roses? We're centuries away at this point.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Your argumentative skills are so pathetic. This thread needs Roqua !

 

[FranticDistortion]

Yeah no matter what people say about pausing, TB takes significantly more time to get through similar encounters than RTWP.

That is irrelevant. What matters is whether it has more tactical depth. You think RTwP is better suited for games like BG but that’s only because the game was designed with this system in mind. In BG is always a matter of quantity over quality. You have plenty of quests, items, and encounters, but the quality of most of it is debatable. Yet, the fact that you have so much quantity can be a surprise if you are used to smaller games. If you implement turn-based combat in BG2, the game would be dross because it has so much trash combat with so many enemies in each encounter. "But it adds pacing!", screams your inner retard. That’s like saying that overpowered weapons add character progression and nonsensical characters are fun. It’s retarded territory and I’m not going there.

Exactly, they just pile up tons of shitty encounters, but they pass so fast, players don't notice that they are shit.

 

[jackofshadows]

let's agree on the implementation having the most importance

(skipping OD&D, 1st ed AD&D, BECMI, etc. as having no relevance to a Balur's Gate game)

a 2nd ed AD&D game should use a phase-based system (note simultaneous resolution and "realism", within reasonable AD&D limits) or lose a lot of the system's finesse

a 3rd ed D&D game should use a turn-based system

a 4th ed D&D game should use a... who the hell knows, or cares?

a 5th ed D&D game should use a turn-based system

if it doesn't, the ruleset loses it role - so, what's the purpose?

i do not posses the inclination to rehash two decades of codex discussions, but RTwP is a clunky artefact of its time, a quaint reminder of flash-in-the pan fashions, like disco music or enfield bulpup assault rifles - today, good only to laugh at

Unfortunately I cannot argue about feasibility of any particular system since I'm not familiar with them outside of implementation in various games. But if RTwP is just an "artefact", why you think Pf:K received a such warm welcome here? Please don't say "despite it's system".

RTWP makes for absolutely lousiest mechanics possible for controlling small handful of units, each demanding ultra fine precision AND featuring huge number of options (inventory, spellcasting, etc.). Like you do in an RPG.
Then, layering RTWP on top of TB PnP mechanics is just a bad joke.

But that's simply not true in a low-lvl DnD context for which it was created. Subj will be no different, basically.

For single character RPGs best make them RT, preferably FPP or TPP with actiony controls, for best timing, movement and targetting precision.
For party based, just make them TB or Phase-Based for unintrusively multiplexing the control flow between different characters.

You must have some specific examples in mind to say that because I'm thinking exactly the opposite while keeping in mind AoD/Fallout for best single TB experience and any party-based with lots of possible summons for RTwP, let's say Pf:K again.

 

[Stella Brando]

This is like hearing about why we should all eat vegetables.

turn based = vegetables

 

[Harthwain]

This is like hearing about why we should all eat vegetables.

turn based = vegetables

It's like saying all vegetables taste the same (read: bad), which is stupid thing to say.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Watermelons are vegetables.

 

[NJClaw]

This is like hearing about why we should all eat vegetables.

turn based = vegetables

This is fundamentally true, because:
- you need it to avoid dying from horrible diseases;
- only spoiled kids who don't know what's best for them don't like it.

 

[NJClaw]

And if you don't like vegetables I'm honestly sorry for you, because that means you never had a grandmother who knew how to transform green garbage into food of the Gods.

 

[BarbequeMasta]

This is like hearing about why we should all eat vegetables.

turn based = vegetables

So basically Larian took our favorite Chicken sandwich and replaced it with vegan chicken sandwich.... shit that actually fits.

 

[Stella Brando]

Baldur's Gate 1: Pure, free-range, organic, farm-to-table chicken

Baldur's Gate 2: Ran with tough inner city chicken gangs

 

[vortex]

Baldur's Gate 3: Wacky Belgian joke sim now with TB

 

[underground nymph]

Baldur's Gate 3: Wacky Belgian joke sim now with TB

Oysters accompanied by aged Westmalle tripel.

 

[CappenVarra]

let's agree on the implementation having the most importance

(skipping OD&D, 1st ed AD&D, BECMI, etc. as having no relevance to a Balur's Gate game)

a 2nd ed AD&D game should use a phase-based system (note simultaneous resolution and "realism", within reasonable AD&D limits) or lose a lot of the system's finesse

a 3rd ed D&D game should use a turn-based system

a 4th ed D&D game should use a... who the hell knows, or cares?

a 5th ed D&D game should use a turn-based system

if it doesn't, the ruleset loses it role - so, what's the purpose?

i do not posses the inclination to rehash two decades of codex discussions, but RTwP is a clunky artefact of its time, a quaint reminder of flash-in-the pan fashions, like disco music or enfield bulpup assault rifles - today, good only to laugh at

Unfortunately I cannot argue about feasibility of any particular system since I'm not familiar with them outside of implementation in various games. But if RTwP is just an "artefact", why you think Pf:K received a such warm welcome here? Please don't say "despite it's system".

new disco is still being made, and there are people who think it's the best thing ever and demand more, no?

Pf:K succeeded because is the first decent game that even remotely scratches the itch (in comparison to POEs and stuffies), and thankfully the turn-based mod is there for people who want it

without doubt, it is known there are many people who love RTwP, and a market for games to sell them; if commercial success if the criterion, skyrim is even better since its market is bigger?

it is also known those people (that prefer RTwP) are free to enjoy as much RTwP/disco/McDonald's as they want - but their judgment is found lacking by the Kodex Kritikal Konsenzus: we are here to define what a *proper* CRPG is, not to munch on BigMacs ffs

 

[anvi]

I can make some really nice vegetable dishes.

 

[Reinhardt]

Rtwpfags still butthurt?

 

[BarbequeMasta]

Of course lots of vegetable dishes can be delicious, but meat remains the king when it comes to taste, anyone who desagrees is a little vegan fag.

 

[Reinhardt]

But rtwp is not meat. It's cheap and lazy substitute for both tb and pure rt. Basically - vegan meat.