Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[LannTheStupid]

Well, I have watched (at last!) the interview with Nick Pechenin from Larian which was posted here some time ago. He mentioned that in BG-3 "the A.I. can decide to shoot a barrel near the hero if the A.I. concludes that in the barrel can be some liquid that provides "difficult terrain".

And you know what? If he did not lie, and if this will be implemented at least partially - then screw all your RTwP vs. TB, screw "DoS 3" and all your complains. Let it be DoS dos, DoS tres or even DoS cuatro. Give me this A.I., and other developer teams can burn in fire. And their parents can die from COVID-19 for bringing up children who cannot program the A.I.

It seems that Pink Eye has deleted his post, but if he is monitoring this thread here are the time stamps:
https://youtu.be/yZPj83H38bs?t=456 - about how the A.I. estimates the situation in general.
https://youtu.be/yZPj83H38bs?t=474 - the example I metioned above.

 

[Shadenuat]

That already was in DoS 1.

 

[LannTheStupid]

That already was in DoS 1.

Well, now I know how to spend my quarantine time till June 2021.

 

[jungl]

Cant wait for the enchanced edition that will eventually come out 20 years later that will make the graphics somehow worse. The black outline on the sprites was terrible decision by beamdog.

 

[BarbequeMasta]

Doubt anyone would remember DOS3 or Larian in 20 years, so you don't have to worry about that.

 

[NJClaw]

Well, I have watched (at last!) the interview with Nick Pechenin from Larian which was posted here some time ago. He mentioned that in BG-3 "the A.I. can decide to shoot a barrel near the hero if the A.I. concludes that in the barrel can be some liquid that provides "difficult terrain".

And you know what? If he did not lie, and if this will be implemented at least partially - then screw all your RTwP vs. TB, screw "DoS 3" and all your complains. Let it be DoS dos, DoS tres or even DoS cuatro. Give me this A.I., and other developer teams can burn in fire. And their parents can die from COVID-19 for bringing up children who cannot program the A.I.

It seems that Pink Eye has deleted his post, but if he is monitoring this thread here are the time stamps:
https://youtu.be/yZPj83H38bs?t=456 - about how the A.I. estimates the situation in general.
https://youtu.be/yZPj83H38bs?t=474 - the example I metioned above.

What's impressive about that?

A simple feature like that can be a great addition to the game, but two points need to be met:
- the AI needs to be able to correctly assess if it's worth it to "shoot the barrel". In KotC enemies try to bull rush you into braziers if you stand near them, but they are very stupid: they use their entire round trying to get you into the brazier even if they could damage you a lot more with their normal attacks;
- the game needs A LOT of different "barrels to shoot", meaning that you need a lot of "items" that can influence the course of the fight. If you encounter the same four or five "items" that behave always in the same way, it quickly becomes a boring gimmick.

 

[Sweeper]

He mentioned that in BG-3 "the A.I. can decide to shoot a barrel near the hero if the A.I. concludes that in the barrel can be some liquid that provides "difficult terrain".

I'm starting to think that Larian is entirely made up of barrel fetishists.

 

[BarbequeMasta]

He mentioned that in BG-3 "the A.I. can decide to shoot a barrel near the hero if the A.I. concludes that in the barrel can be some liquid that provides "difficult terrain".

I'm starting to think that Larian is entirely made up of barrel fetishists.

Am surprised they didn't announce a barrel romance yet....

 

[The_Mask]

I'm starting to think that Larian is entirely made up of barrel fetishists.

Am surprised they didn't announce a barrel romance yet....

Every time I play a Larian game I contrast it with Dark Souls where there is literally 1 barrel in the entire game that contains anything of interest, and I just smirk at the difference in level.

 

[Elex]

I'm starting to think that Larian is entirely made up of barrel fetishists.

Am surprised they didn't announce a barrel romance yet....

Every time I play a Larian game I contrast it with Dark Souls where there is literally 1 barrel in the entire game that contains anything of interest, and I just smirk at the difference in level.

What about barrel mimics?

 

[FranticDistortion]

In a context of DOS:3 it one of the reasons why they cut down the party size: to reduce the number of mobs therefore reduce average overall encounter's time. Which is a shame.

Yeah no matter what people say about pausing, TB takes significatly more time to get through similar encounters than RTWP. Take kingmaker TB mode for example, it's cool and works pretty well minus the (inmy opinion) unclear UI, BUT going through the entire game with it took me almost twice as much as my average RTWP playthrough on harder difficulties.
TB can implement functions like skip enemy turn etc to reduce that but it's obviously not an optimal solution0

Fun thing about this. RTwP is faster than TB, but most of them shove in so many encounters- playtime spent fighting is roughly the same.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Fun thing about this. RTwP is faster than TB, but most of them shove in so many encounters- playtime spent fighting is roughly the same.

That's because in RTwP games, before beheading someone, you're expected to shave his beard first.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Doubt anyone would remember DOS3 or Larian in 20 years, so you don't have to worry about that.

Ok Sawyer, we get it.

 

[underground nymph]

I mean... RTwP was a thing back in times when there were not a lot of options aka active skills per companion except say casters, as well as passive skills that you were supposed to track somehow anyway. In current day DnD we have an overwhelming variety of options per one character. Implementing them in RTwP isn’t impossible, but I would’ve questioned sanity of a person who would like to play this Benny Hill-style shit show.

 

[BarbequeMasta]

Doubt anyone would remember DOS3 or Larian in 20 years, so you don't have to worry about that.

Ok Sawyer, we get it.

Ha says the POE portrait, the irony!!!

 

[CappenVarra]

i pity the fool that defends rtwp on the codex

of all the forums on all the internets in all the world, they walk into mine

I'm kind of a centrist here and care far more about implementation but let's see what you've got: RTwP is more convenient and *realistic* system. It can deliver feel of epic battle thanks to simultaneous action and associated effects.

let's agree on the implementation having the most importance

(skipping OD&D, 1st ed AD&D, BECMI, etc. as having no relevance to a Balur's Gate game)

a 2nd ed AD&D game should use a phase-based system (note simultaneous resolution and "realism", within reasonable AD&D limits) or lose a lot of the system's finesse

a 3rd ed D&D game should use a turn-based system

a 4th ed D&D game should use a... who the hell knows, or cares?

a 5th ed D&D game should use a turn-based system

if it doesn't, the ruleset loses it role - so, what's the purpose?

i do not posses the inclination to rehash two decades of codex discussions, but RTwP is a clunky artefact of its time, a quaint reminder of flash-in-the pan fashions, like disco music or enfield bulpup assault rifles - today, good only to laugh at

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

Even Corona can't kill BG3

can I get a job where DnD session is consider amazing productive work? please?

You live under a rock or what?
Critical role
Acquisition inc.
Pink hair guy
And the others five millions streamers/content creator that jumped in the bandwagon in the last 5 years.

if you are lucky people will throw millions at you.

sorry, not gay. you should apply though.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

a 2nd ed AD&D game should use a phase-based system (note simultaneous resolution and "realism", within reasonable AD&D limits) or lose a lot of the system's finesse

no

 

[DraQ]

And now for something completely different:
RTWP can make for excellent gameplay.
Some of the best games I've ever played (and not just for story like PS:T) used RTWP.
The thing is:
RTWP makes for absolutely lousiest mechanics possible for controlling small handful of units, each demanding ultra fine precision AND featuring huge number of options (inventory, spellcasting, etc.). Like you do in an RPG.
Then, layering RTWP on top of TB PnP mechanics is just a bad joke.

For single character RPGs best make them RT, preferably FPP or TPP with actiony controls, for best timing, movement and targetting precision.
For party based, just make them TB or Phase-Based for unintrusively multiplexing the control flow between different characters.

(Do any of you muh-RTWP plebes even know what "multiplexing" means? Bah! )

Good. Monty Haul was a mistake, let us return to the days when getting a magic weapon meant something.

One of my favourite itemizations ever was in Witcher 1 (though BG1 wasn't half bad at it either).

Anyway, both item and character progressions are at their best when they are highly horizontal.

 

[Lacrymas]

The fact magic items were rare and their extraordinary acquisition in BG1 is what made them special enough to unintentionally commit them to memory to recite them even on your deathbed.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Am surprised they didn't announce a barrel romance yet....

We will have swarms in WotR. I think the romance between a swarm and a barrel made in heavens.

 

[Deleted Member 22431]

And now for something completely different:
RTWP can make for excellent gameplay.

No, it cannot. You always take advantage of the pause and the AI can't handle it. Also, it becomes a total clusterfuck where you can't see wtf is happening, which leads to even more pause and micromanagement.

 

[Deleted Member 22431]

Yeah no matter what people say about pausing, TB takes significantly more time to get through similar encounters than RTWP.

That is irrelevant. What matters is whether it has more tactical depth. You think RTwP is better suited for games like BG but that’s only because the game was designed with this system in mind. In BG is always a matter of quantity over quality. You have plenty of quests, items, and encounters, but the quality of most of it is debatable. Yet, the fact that you have so much quantity can be a surprise if you are used to smaller games. If you implement turn-based combat in BG2, the game would be dross because it has so much trash combat with so many enemies in each encounter. "But it adds pacing!", screams your inner retard. That’s like saying that overpowered weapons add character progression and nonsensical characters are fun. It’s retarded territory and I’m not going there.

 

[passerby]

You always take advantage of the pause and the AI can't handle it. Also, it becomes a total clusterfuck where you can't see wtf is happening, which leads to even more pause and micromanagement.

But the same pause and micromanagement is perfectly fine when it's streamlined, forced and stretched over 5x longer timeframe and god forbid you can't admire in awe glorious walking, whacking and spell animations one at a time for thousands times.

In BG is always a matter of quantity over quality. You have plenty of quests, items, and encounters, but the quality of most of it is debatable.

5x more trash mobs, or 5x more time wasted to kill a single trash mob, which kind of filler shit is better and why, discuss.

What matters is whether it has more tactical depth.

This is why RTwP is superior by definition, because it adds another layer of depth with simultaneous movement and actions, without sacrificing anything of value from TB rules.

"But it adds pacing!", screams your inner retard. That’s like saying that overpowered weapons add character progression and nonsensical characters are fun. It’s retarded territory and I’m not going there.

Like most people with limited cognitive ability, you are unaware of your limitations and project onto others your difficulties with processing more than one piece of information at a time.
In reality we can deploy the same depth of decision making as in TB, without having our brains shut down out of boredom, due to dilluted intellectual stimuli and sanity loss from watching the same slow animations for hours.

 

[Deleted Member 22431]

But the same pause and micromanagement is perfectly fine when it's streamlined, forced and stretched over 5x longer timeframe and god forbid you can't admire in awe glorious walking, whacking and spell animations one at a time for thousands times.

There is no need for excessive micromanagement in turn-based combat, it is not streamlined or forced. You have to provide actual examples to defend your point.

5x more trash mobs, or 5x more time wasted to kill a single trash mob, which kind of filler shit is better and why, discuss.

How about no trash mobs and decent encounter design for a change? If the idea is that we need RTwP because a developer is filling the map with trash mobs, then the game is not worth anyway.

This is why RTwP is superior by definition, because it adds another layer of depth with simultaneous movement and actions, without sacrificing anything of value from TB rules.

It sacrifices plenty. First, you have the upper hand because you can pause multiple times. In turn-based combat, once you made your decisions, you are done. You need to wait for the decisions of your enemy. It rewards better decision making and planning. The simultaneous movement would be great if it wasn’t a mess.

In reality we can deploy the same depth of decision making as in TB, without having our brains shut down out of boredom, due to dilluted intellectual stimuli and sanity loss from watching the same slow animations for hours.

The point is that you don't need to have the same depth of decision making because RTwP is inherently inferior since it gives you an unfair advantage. The remedy for slow animations is faster animations, not a clusterfuck system. If you are too bored to play a cRPG with a proper tactical system, you should play MMOs or shooters. They would be more fitting to your personality. What we shouldn’t do is turn the tactical combat system into a clusterfuck to appease people that have no business playing these games. It’s like complaining that your gameplay is restricted by stats and character building, instead of reflexes. Of course it is, it’s a goddamn cRPG, not an action game.