The Outer Worlds Pre-Release Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Zombra]

This will be an unpopular opinion, and I may be saying this out loud for the first time:

Minigames can be a good thing.

If made in a way that is actually enjoyable, they can be a nice break in the pacing of endless conversations or button mashing combat. They particularly make sense in a real time RPG, where player skill is already being tested. Why should combat be the only thing the player actually interacts in?

The trick is making them fun, which can't be easy, depending on what kind of game it is. A person who likes first-person shooter hybrid RPGs isn't necessarily going to enjoy your milkmaid minigame. Most likely some will and some won't. So the tendency will be to pander to the LCD. But of course there are prestigious players who will hate that too. I guess for most studios it's best to avoid them - when in doubt, leave it out. I just hate to see people implying designers should never try to have more than one activity in a game.

 

[biggestboss]

I like minigames like Wizardry 6/7/8's lockpicking and trap disabling, but I can see how they seem pointless in the face of save scumming. I'd love to see it coupled with something like the Drama Stars system in Frayed Knights where you lose a possibly valuable resource when manually loading a save.

 

[Doktor Best]

The problem with minigames is that they become stale no matter how well thought out they are simply due to redundancy (as you want many skillchecks to be able to reward the player for taking that skill) One solution would be to only make the player solve the minigame in skillchecks he barely does or does not meet the requirement for.

So when you try to open a lock with skill level 25 and you have 80, you dont have to go through it, only if you try to open one in the range of 75-85 (with harder timers if you miss the skill level by only a few points)

 

[just]

yea like hacking minigame should require real life knowledge of assembler and you have to write exploits by yourself or ask on stackoverflow

 

[BlackGoat]

Actually something like Zachtronics's TIS-100 or EXAPUNKS would be pretty sweet as a hacking system in a larger RPG.

 

[Sailor Woedica]

Twitch streamers are playing Outer Worlds!!!

 

[HarveyBirdman]

In a game where you can pick a lock with 0 skill but it's going to take you 20 minutes to do it, hardly anyone's going to put points into lockpicking and they're going to endure the timesink while also complaining about it (and probably modding it so the time it takes is 0, see Wasteland 2's terrible timers)

I like the PoE approach of lockpick consumables where if you're one level below you have to spend three lockpicks, but it's impossible if you're anywhere below that.

Feels way too gamey. I'd rather have a dice roll, and fill in the blanks with my imagination.

 

[Dishonoredbr]

Twitch streamers are playing Outer Worlds!!!

They're already give people review code this early or something? Well shit , i hope they are allowed to show something new.

 

[Quillon]

One of them says its a media preview session...at PAXAus maybe.



goty confirmed then /is this a good youtuber?

 

[Sailor Woedica]

I hope they show off the character creator, I need to know if you can equip snap clips to your character's hair

 

[Neerasrc]

The game becomes richer as the number of mechanics increases in a game.In a real-time game(ARPG), mini-games and such mechanics are important. Trying to open the door with lockpick or trying to open with a credit card is a game. is a time-consuming task in real life. The game should also take time. RP is already this. Those who don't like it should look at different types of games.

 

[Efe]

my experience with locksmiths so far tells me it takes a looong time wityh them telling you about how hard its gonna be until you pay them and then they immediately pick the fucking lock and walk away.
even when they had to break the lock it doesnt take long once you have sufficient tools

 

[Quillon]

this was very effective at lockpicking:

wouldn't mind a minigame with this :D

 

[Efe]

theres no lockpicking in underworld ascendant but you can burn down wooden doors...
dont read any reviews, just go in blind and enjoy (and join us in codex thread afterwards).

joke aside, grimoires lockpicking/trap disarming is nice too. it rewards/fucks character and player skill equally and doesnt take much time at all.

 

[undecaf]

Minigames can be a good thing.

...

The trick is making them fun

This is true, but it certainly seems more difficult to achieve than what it might seem.

You need to battle the repetition with variety (multiple different minigames for similiaresque tasks) and create the thing such, that it takes the character systems into account in a tangible way. Optimally so that character systems and player skill go hand in hand while clearly differentiating what’s the characters and what’s the players job in the big picture.

And you still would have a lot of people calling it annoying shit.

I don’t think I’ve ever encountered a minigame that’d feel interesting and carry through the whole game without problems.

I found the locks/traps game in Wizardry 8 unobtrusive and somewhat interesting, though.

I think it can be done, but so far... It’s not been very succesful.

I like minigames like Wizardry 6/7/8's lockpicking and trap disabling, but I can see how they seem pointless in the face of save scumming.

Savescumming is a problem only for those who insist upon it even while knowing it ruins their experience.

Not something I’d consider a ”real” problem, nor a reason to exclude proper RNG checks.

 

[Zombra]

Prime Junta Neerasrc Efe

While it's interesting to map a real life experience to gameplay (e.g. well this is what lockpicking is actually like, i.e. very boring and time consuming, so this is what it should be like in the game), simulationism is absolutely not, nor should it be, the goal of every game or even most games.

Particularly in a game of this type, gameplay should be good, entertaining, engaging first. If you can also make it realistic, bonus. But starting a design from "well what is the authentic experience of being a dentist" is really setting yourself up to make a bad game. As undecaf observed, it's already hard enough to make minigames consistently worth playing. Why hang the chain of realism around your neck before you've even started.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

hol' up
why does a game about vampires even have lockpicking to begin with
you have superhuman strength, you could just rip the door off its hinges

 

[Neerasrc]

Prime Junta Neerasrc Efe

While it's interesting to map a real life experience to gameplay (e.g. well this is what lockpicking is actually like, i.e. very boring and time consuming, so this is what it should be like in the game), simulationism is absolutely not, nor should it be, the goal of every game or even most games.

Particularly in a game of this type, gameplay should be good, entertaining, engaging first. If you can also make it realistic, bonus. But starting a design from "well what is the authentic experience of being a dentist" is really setting yourself up to make a bad game. As undecaf observed, it's already hard enough to make minigames consistently worth playing. Why hang the chain of realism around your neck before you've even started.

There are different ways to open a door in Dos2. You can break it with an axe. (The axe can be broken) You can throw a flame spell. (the door may burn) So everything must be balanced. There shouldn't be anything ridiculous like 1/4 when approaching the door. What makes Kingmaker successful is the existence of lifelike mechanics. Nausea, blindness ..etc Or think of kingdom Deliverince. Existence of sleep. Food spoilage. An RPG game must remain loyal to the simulation (70%), but It should not be 100%. As long as this balance is maintained, a good game is achieved.

 

[Zombra]

An RPG game must remain loyal to the simulation

No. Some simulations are successful and fun, and that's great. To suggest that all RPGs must be simulations first is dumb.

also

RPG game

 

[Wesp5]

why does a game about vampires even have lockpicking to begin with
you have superhuman strength, you could just rip the door off its hinges

While I basically agree with you and it annoys me a lot in all games where you have multiple weapons from axes to assault rifles and a normal wooden door can't be opened without the key, in Vampire the Masquerade you most often pick locks to not arouse too much attention, like to uphold the name-giving Masquerade and not reveal that you are indeed a vampire.

 

[Neerasrc]

An RPG game must remain loyal to the simulation

No. Some simulations are successful and fun, and that's great. To suggest that all RPGs must be simulations first is dumb.

also

RPG game

I do not agree. As the games shift to fun, the so-called RP begins to disappear. Nowadays, every game thinks of itself as RPG. Real RPG games must remain real. Other games already do what you say. (sample, witcher 3)

 

[Steezus]

One of them says its a media preview session...at PAXAus maybe.



goty confirmed then /is this a good youtuber?

Skillup is definitely in the small circle of youtubers who don't constantly fanboy every single release, but eh, last time I saw gameplay it looked pretty bleh.

 

[Zombra]

I do not agree. As the games shift to fun, the so-called RP begins to disappear. Nowadays, every game thinks of itself as RPG. Real RPG games must remain real. Other games already do what you say. (sample, witcher 3)

Well ... now we're getting into "What is RPG". According to you, "simulation" and "RPG" are the same thing, and such games as Fallout and Bloodlines aren't RPGs. You also seem to think that "real RP" means putting on a robe and wizard hat and pretending that you are your character. Fine, go ahead and keep thinking that. You're wrong in both cases, but there's no point in arguing further. Have a nice night.

 

[Dishonoredbr]

One of them says its a media preview session...at PAXAus maybe.



goty confirmed then

/is this a good youtuber?

Idk much about him but he didn't liked much Greedfall because felt was too long for it own good and thought as everyone Rage 2 was mediocre. His video are pretty well made.

 

[Neerasrc]

I do not agree. As the games shift to fun, the so-called RP begins to disappear. Nowadays, every game thinks of itself as RPG. Real RPG games must remain real. Other games already do what you say. (sample, witcher 3)

Well ... now we're getting into "What is RPG". According to you, "simulation" and "RPG" are the same thing, and such games as Fallout and Bloodlines aren't RPGs. You also seem to think that "real RP" means putting on a robe and wizard hat and pretending that you are your character. Fine, go ahead and keep thinking that. You're wrong in both cases, but there's no point in arguing further. Have a nice night.

I'm talking about a balance, unfortunately you don't want to understand. Games with the system must remain connected to the system. dnd, world of darkness(vampire), pathfinder..etc Discussing these games is another matter. 70% simulation is a nice balance point. because it makes you feel like real. The player is not bored, but he is forced. If you're a hero, you have to learn to be a hero. This is the case in RP. Dialogue systems are important because it increases the number of people's choices. (That brings you closer to reality) Would it be bad to have 70% simulation? Let's consider 2-choice games. (30% simulation) Successful? No.

My goal is not to argue anyway. I'm just saying my ideas. What is RPG? It's a very long story. I have to write until morning. but we all already know. Have a nice night