The Outer Worlds Pre-Release Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Zombra]

Lots of games get published relatively bugfree, both AAA and indie

Bug-free, yes. Done being patched ... not so much.

Then I guess you're not a fan of pretty much every RPG ever made, both physical and CRPG, up until the Age of Decline.

I don't recall any pen & paper RPG where my GM said "Your lockpick skill is low, so we have to sit here in silence for 5 minutes if you want to try."

Even CRPGs don't use this, including "push this button a million times hoping to roll 1000." Except for point-based character generation systems ... and yes, I'll say out loud that that method of chargen is shit.

 

[Grauken]

Lots of games get published relatively bugfree, both AAA and indie

Bug-free, yes. Done being patched ... not so much.

While that's a different argument, I have to agree with you there. Not a big fan of the whole Enhanced Edition thing that crops up with lots of CRPGs. Either you play the first release and can participate in the discussion around it (but I rarely replay games, so I miss out on content of the now-it's-really-finished-edition), or you play the final-final-edition a few years later, but do it pretty much in isolation (which is okay, but sometimes the discussion and shitposting around games is half the fun)

 

[Makabb]

Funny how some people never updated their meme folder, Obsidian hasn't had a mega-fucked-up-buggy game in like ten years

Since then they've had (1) moderately buggy games, and (2) remarkably unbuggy games that also turn out to be streamlined pieces of shit, just wonderful isn't it

A buggy game is better than a half-finished game.

So Bethesdas games are the best

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I don't recall any pen & paper RPG where my GM said "Your lockpick skill is low, so we have to sit here in silence for 5 minutes if you want to try."

Instead he's likely to say: you lockpick skill is low, it takes you twenty minute instead of five to open the lock.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I don't recall any pen & paper RPG where my GM said "Your lockpick skill is low, so we have to sit here in silence for 5 minutes if you want to try."

Instead he's likely to say: you lockpick skill is low, it takes you twenty minute instead of five to open the lock.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

So we can conclude by Obsidian's trajectory, Outer Worlds will be likely modestly bugfree, but kinda boring and mediocre

Probably.

You wonder what Pillars would look like if it had been Obsidian's first game, Arcanum-style - or what it would look like if it were made 5 years later instead, when Microsoft has sucked it deep into its blobular mass and spit out Feargus's pelvic bones with a derisive burp.

You mean if MCA had been project lead instead of Sawyer? Yeah, pretty fucking different.

But, I’ve gotta say, the biggest problems with POE 1&2 seem to have two causes: either management by committee (how they settled on Fenstermaker’s less than stellar main story), or Sawyer’s bizarre stylistic preferences (he loves boring, humdrum shit and didn’t have much interest in making this kind of game). Tyranny has plenty of issues, from the lazy combat to the fact that it’s only 75% finished, but a lot of that is because they raided the budget to pay for POE.

If you look at what’s wrong with Tyranny and what’s wrong with POE 1/2, I don’t think there’s much overlap. Because Tyranny is Sawyer free.

Maybe I’m being fabulously optimistic, but in my experience good leadership makes a huge difference. The Outer Worlds won’t have Tyranny’s budget issues, or POE 1/2’s leadership issues. Until they break my heart, I will keep insisting that Tim and Leonard deserve the benefit of the doubt. Or at the very least, they deserve more trust than Sawyer or whoever was the lead on Tyranny (Matt McLean?).

 

[Terenty]

Until they break my heart, I will keep insisting that Tim and Leonard deserve the benefit of the doubt.

They do. But when you have shit writers and designers on your team you can't do much

 

[Grauken]

Until they break my heart, I will keep insisting that Tim and Leonard deserve the benefit of the doubt.

Disappointment is like entropy, it will get you in the end

 

[Wesp5]

That doesn't make 100% sense though. First off all breaking down a door is faaaaar from a superhuman act, so unless people see you outright juggeling the door that can be explained away and shouldn't be much of a violation and what about doors in vacant locations?

How the fuck did it come to this. Now we're talking about vampires breaking down a door with an axe, but not doing it too hard or too easily because a normal human would take a few minutes to get through it, so a vampire would too. Vampires are sure tricky!

I'm all for a vampire breaking down a door with a weapon, but breaking it down with supernatural strength would break the Masquerade if people can see it. Which of course could be reflected in the game, maybe they will include this in Bloodlines 2?

 

[Diggfinger]

This will be an unpopular opinion, and I may be saying this out loud for the first time:

Minigames can be a good thing.


Minigames can be a good thing.

 

[Ismaul]

I'm all for a vampire breaking down a door with a weapon, but breaking it down with supernatural strength would break the Masquerade if people can see it. Which of course could be reflected in the game, maybe they will include this in Bloodlines 2?

But are you not using your supernatural strength while wielding a weapon to break the door?

"Hey guys I crushed the metal door here. Totally legit, I used a weapon! Masquerade upheld!"

 

[Prime Junta]

Sawyer’s bizarre stylistic preferences

More like, Sawyer's bizarre stylistic preferences and his love for faction gameplay fighting with Feargus's MUST BE MOAR EBIN stylistic preferences, with a bunch of SQUEEEE! KISSING thrown in for good measure. It tries to sit on two chairs and falls between them.

I retain my faith that if Sawyer gets to make his dream game, it will be glorious.

Spoiler

For certain values of 'glorious' anyway.

 

[Ninjerk]

I wonder if we will ever know.

 

[Grauken]

I wonder if we will ever know.

We won't, nobody really gets to make their dream game. Either it breaks them or they break their own dream

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Until they break my heart, I will keep insisting that Tim and Leonard deserve the benefit of the doubt.

They do. But when you have shit writers and designers on your team you can't do much

Do they have shit writers and designers, though? I haven’t seen many complaints about Deadfire’s level design, some of which was excellent.

As for the writing, I contend that Obsidian’s had badly led writers since MCA left (and really since he was sidelined on Pillars). These people aren’t just writing dialogue in a vacuum. In POE, they were taking their cue from Sawyer and Fenstermaker, who had two totally different visions for what the game should be. Also, Fenstermaker apparently has a habit of antagonizing anyone who’s more talented than he is, which is not a great quality in your narrative lead. Good fucking riddance.

In Deadfire, they were taking their cue from a distracted Sawyer and then Carrie Patel, who had no business being narrative co-lead given that (IIRC) it was only her second game. Frankly, Sawyer had no business being narrative co-lead on these games either. He’d never done it before and it’s really not his strong suit.

When you listen to the writers on The Outer Worlds talk about working for Boyarsky, it’s like they’ve never had a competent boss before. “OMG, Leonard actually gave us direction, he told us to consume lots of high quality media so that we could understand his vision, he and Tim made us keep revising until we got the tone they were shooting for.” I mean, shit, nobody was doing that on POE or Deadfire or Tyranny*?

Maybe Starks, Patel, Dollarhyde, Kirsch and whoever else (I think I’m missing one) are incapable of doing good work, but it sure seems like no one at Obsidian even tried to get them to do consistently good work until Boyarsky came along.



*I thought the writing in Tyranny was a lot more compelling than in POE or Deadfire. It had a consistent tone that fit the story they were trying to tell. There was a lot of text, but they did a much better job of making me want to read it.

 

[Grauken]

When you listen to the writers on The Outer Worlds talk about working for Boyarsky, it’s like they’ve never had a competent boss before. “OMG, Leonard actually gave us direction, he directed us to consume lots of high quality media so that we could understand his vision, he and Tim made us keep revising until we got the tone they were shooting for.”

Honestly, getting a good boss after having survived a bad one for a few years reminds you that work can actually be fun

 

[Riddler]

Until they break my heart, I will keep insisting that Tim and Leonard deserve the benefit of the doubt.

They do. But when you have shit writers and designers on your team you can't do much

Do they have shit writers and designers, though? I haven’t seen many complaints about Deadfire’s level design, some of which was excellent.

As for the writing, I contend that Obsidian’s had badly led writers since MCA left (and really since he was sidelined on Pillars). These people aren’t just writing dialogue in a vacuum. In POE, they were taking their cue from Sawyer and Fenstermaker, who had two totally different visions for what the game should be. Also, Fenstermaker apparently has a habit of antagonizing anyone who’s more talented than he is, which is not a great quality in your narrative lead. Good fucking riddance.

In Deadfire, they were taking their cue from a distracted Sawyer and then Carrie Patel, who had no business being narrative co-lead given that (IIRC) it was only her second game. Frankly, Sawyer had no business being narrative co-lead on these games either. He’d never done it before and it’s really not his strong suit.

When you listen to the writers on The Outer Worlds talk about working for Boyarsky, it’s like they’ve never had a competent boss before. “OMG, Leonard actually gave us direction, he directed us to consume lots of high quality media so that we could understand his vision, he and Tim made us keep revising until we got the tone they were shooting for.” I mean, shit, nobody was doing that on POE or Deadfire or Tyranny*?

Maybe Starks, Patel, Dollarhyde, Kirsch and whoever else (I think I’m missing one) are incapable of doing good work, but it sure seems like no one at Obsidian even tried to get them to do consistently good work until Boyarsky came along.



*I thought the writing in Tyranny was a lot more compelling than in POE or Deadfire. It had a consistent tone that fit the story they were trying to tell. There was a lot of text, but they did a much better job of making me want to read it.

I mean, the writing did get better in the Deadfire DLCs (at which point Sawyer had left) but it still had significant issues.

I will remain hopeful that they can iron out those issues (at least somewhat) with more competent leadership.

Sawyer should stick to project management and autism related focus on guns and medieval armour and not meddle with narrative design IMO.

 

[Ninjerk]

Do they have shit writers and designers, though? I haven’t seen many complaints about Deadfire’s level design, some of which was excellent.

As for the writing, I contend that Obsidian’s had badly led writers since MCA left (and really since he was sidelined on Pillars). These people aren’t just writing dialogue in a vacuum. In POE, they were taking their cue from Sawyer and Fenstermaker, who had two totally different visions for what the game should be. Also, Fenstermaker apparently has a habit of antagonizing anyone who’s more talented than he is, which is not a great quality in your narrative lead. Good fucking riddance.

In Deadfire, they were taking their cue from a distracted Sawyer and then Carrie Patel, who had no business being narrative co-lead given that (IIRC) it was only her second game. Frankly, Sawyer had no business being narrative co-lead on these games either. He’d never done it before and it’s really not his strong suit.

When you listen to the writers on The Outer Worlds talk about working for Boyarsky, it’s like they’ve never had a competent boss before. “OMG, Leonard actually gave us direction, he told us to consume lots of high quality media so that we could understand his vision, he and Tim made us keep revising until we got the tone they were shooting for.” I mean, shit, nobody was doing that on POE or Deadfire or Tyranny*?

Maybe Starks, Patel, Dollarhyde, Kirsch and whoever else (I think I’m missing one) are incapable of doing good work, but it sure seems like no one at Obsidian even tried to get them to do consistently good work until Boyarsky came along.



*I thought the writing in Tyranny was a lot more compelling than in POE or Deadfire. It had a consistent tone that fit the story they were trying to tell. There was a lot of text, but they did a much better job of making me want to read it.

Regarding the bolded, has information about Fenstermaker's involvement with the project ever been compiled in a single place? I seem to remember seeing something (maybe a post by him here) about the decision-making process around the narrative in PoE. It's a bit foggy for me now.

 

[Dishonoredbr]

Until they break my heart, I will keep insisting that Tim and Leonard deserve the benefit of the doubt.

They do. But when you have shit writers and designers on your team you can't do much

Do they have shit writers and designers, though? I haven’t seen many complaints about Deadfire’s level design, some of which was excellent.

As for the writing, I contend that Obsidian’s had badly led writers since MCA left (and really since he was sidelined on Pillars). These people aren’t just writing dialogue in a vacuum. In POE, they were taking their cue from Sawyer and Fenstermaker, who had two totally different visions for what the game should be. Also, Fenstermaker apparently has a habit of antagonizing anyone who’s more talented than he is, which is not a great quality in your narrative lead. Good fucking riddance.

In Deadfire, they were taking their cue from a distracted Sawyer and then Carrie Patel, who had no business being narrative co-lead given that (IIRC) it was only her second game. Frankly, Sawyer had no business being narrative co-lead on these games either. He’d never done it before and it’s really not his strong suit.

When you listen to the writers on The Outer Worlds talk about working for Boyarsky, it’s like they’ve never had a competent boss before. “OMG, Leonard actually gave us direction, he told us to consume lots of high quality media so that we could understand his vision, he and Tim made us keep revising until we got the tone they were shooting for.” I mean, shit, nobody was doing that on POE or Deadfire or Tyranny*?

Maybe Starks, Patel, Dollarhyde, Kirsch and whoever else (I think I’m missing one) are incapable of doing good work, but it sure seems like no one at Obsidian even tried to get them to do consistently good work until Boyarsky came along.



*I thought the writing in Tyranny was a lot more compelling than in POE or Deadfire. It had a consistent tone that fit the story they were trying to tell. There was a lot of text, but they did a much better job of making me want to read it.

My main problems with all this games written is that theres so much detailed discription of everything and so much lore that they think you or care.

Its everything is too bloated and tie in the lore that after 1h playing, i still reading grieving mother's nonsense or trying to understand what the fuck Durance is talking. Then come devil of caroc or Aloth and they make me want to talk with them because their much more interesting and less lore dependent backstory and personal struggle.

Make me care first for the worlds then maybe i gonna care about the gods and stupid names.

 

[Quillon]

matthew singh interview which doesn't loooOOAAAADDD!

https://media.gamereactor.dk/TheOuterWorlds_467233.mp4

over 600k words... meh not even 2 million like the great numanuma

 

[Dishonoredbr]

matthew singh interview which doesn't loooOOAAAADDD!

https://media.gamereactor.dk/TheOuterWorlds_467233.mp4

over 600k words... meh now even 2 million like the great numanuma

> Game reactor

 

[jf8350143]

Funny how some people never updated their meme folder, Obsidian hasn't had a mega-fucked-up-buggy game in like ten years

Since then they've had (1) moderately buggy games, and (2) remarkably unbuggy games that also turn out to be streamlined pieces of shit, just wonderful isn't it

A buggy game is better than a half-finished game.

So Bethesdas games are the best

well Bethesdas's games are both buggy and half-finished.


Also find some pictures of the skill tree. Not sure it was bring up here or not, but you get some special bonus for every 20 point you put into a skill, for example 40 block unlocks timed block and 60 allows you to move 100% faster when blocking.

Not gonna post the picture here because it's in Chinese.

 

[Wesp5]

But are you not using your supernatural strength while wielding a weapon to break the door?

You don't need to. At least in Bloodlines you could actively trigger supernatural strength with Bloodbuff or Potence...

 

[Roguey]

I don't recall any pen & paper RPG where my GM said "Your lockpick skill is low, so we have to sit here in silence for 5 minutes if you want to try."

Instead he's likely to say: you lockpick skill is low, it takes you twenty minute instead of five to open the lock.

In Dungeons and Dragons when you're not in combat, you Take 20 as opposed to rolling for success, which means either you pick the lock or you can't.

Regarding the bolded, has information about Fenstermaker's involvement with the project ever been compiled in a single place? I seem to remember seeing something (maybe a post by him here) about the decision-making process around the narrative in PoE. It's a bit foggy for me now.

Just Avellone's posts about how he chased John Gonzalez out of the company, how the other owners wouldn't even bother to hire a writer unless Fenstermaker could get along with them, and an anecdote Fairfax shared from someone about how he saw how many words Avellone had already written for New Vegas and cry-laughed for an extended period of time.

Beneath a Starless Sky has details about how Pillars' plots came together https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...illars-of-eternity.124242/page-3#post-5946980

 

[ERYFKRAD]

When you listen to the writers on The Outer Worlds talk about working for Boyarsky, it’s like they’ve never had a competent boss before. “OMG, Leonard actually gave us direction, he directed us to consume lots of high quality media so that we could understand his vision, he and Tim made us keep revising until we got the tone they were shooting for.”

Honestly, getting a good boss after having survived a bad one for a few years reminds you that work can actually be fun

Oh yeah.