Morrowind was massive decline and should be considered as such

[DalekFlay]

Daggerfall is great in a lot of ways, but randomized worlds are fucking stupid. Level/world design matters.

 

[Catacombs]

This forum is full of morrowind fanboys. *sigh* Removing deep RPG elements is the norm now.

Who are you?

 

[Duralux for Durabux]

Would you rather wander a huge randomly generated continent? Has any game actually delivered a hand crafted world much bigger than that of Morrowind by early 2000's?

Ok, in that way you are right but what i'm trying to say i would have prefer something like Morrowind's hand-crafted world and enhanced stuffs from daggerfall (instead of removing them) +additional stuffs.

 

[Santander02]

I totally see where people like the op are coming from, the decline, both ingame, (removal of skills, features, the fucking shit engine, etc) and out of game (coffee bitch Todd Howard being made grand poobah), started here. Nonetheless the Daggerfall grognards have to recognize that that game was an unfinished mess when it came out, and might only reach it's true potential once the fan made remasters are finished decades after the official release.

But Morrowind has something over the 2 popamole sequels that came that came after it, it is an RPG, as in a real RPG, skills matter, attributes matter, the perspective makes it jarring but no matter how leet your skills as a player are if you attack someone and your weapon skill or defense isn't high enough to overcome your enemy's armor, agility, attack etc. you will get your ass kicked until you character gits good, that puts it firmly head and shoulders everything "mainstream" rpg developers like Bioware and CDProejkt have shat out. Plus ES games greatest (only?) strength is it's presentation of the world and lore and MW blows both Arena and DF out of the water in that respect

 

[Duralux for Durabux]

I totally see where people like the op are coming (removal of skills features, the fucking shit engine, etc) and out of game (coffee bitch Todd Howard being made grand poobah), started here. Nonetheless the Daggerfall grognards have to recognize that that game was and unfinished mess when it came out, and might only reach it's true potential once the fan made remasters are finished.

Daggerfall was too ambitious (one programmer on it you have to give respect )and too restricted by the hardware at the time

it is an RPG, as in a real RPG, skills matter, attributes matter

Not all of the attributes matter in Morrowind. Personnality is useless whereas in daggerfall it was really helpful when you tried to debate to court (but court was removed in Morrrowind unfortunately)

Plus ES games greatest (only?) strength is it's presentation of the world and lore and MW blows both Arena and DF out of the water in that respect

Nope morrowind was great because of its world but in every other aspects, it was dumbed down from daggerfall.

 

[V_K]

huge randomly generated world

And an other thing, Morrowind was supposed to be immense (covering the entire continent of Vvardenfell), unique,deep,and even more revolutionary than daggerfall was. Everyone here is please with a lackluster Morrowind.

Would you rather wander a huge randomly generated continent? Has any game actually delivered a hand crafted world much bigger than that of Morrowind by early 2000's?

Daggerfall's world wasn't randomly generated. Procedurally, yes, but not randomly. And only the main landmass - all of the main quest dungeons and major city layouts are handcrafted.

empty world filled with randomized bland dungeons

Once again, all of the main quest dungeons were handcrafted and even the random ones were better than the small, featureless and boring caves of Morrowind.

and boring randomly generated fetch quests

And non-randomly generated fetch quests - which are like 90% quests in Morrowind - are somehow better?

 

[Baardhaas]

Morrowind did reasonably well at seeming much larger than it actually was. At least at lower levels before you broke the system and could zap around the island in seconds.

I never played Daggerfall though. Is it worth playing these days and if so, where would I start to let it run on a modern system?

 

[Duralux for Durabux]

I never played Daggerfall though. Is it worth playing these days and if so, where would I start to let it run on a modern system?

Install daggerfall unity, D.R.E.A.M if you want better graphics and other minor mods for better immersion and other stuffs.It's a good game despite all of this flaws.(because i don't say Daggerfall was perfect)

 

[Santander02]

I am highly triggered by the use of the Winnie the Poh rating in contexts that have nothing to do with the Communist Party of China in this thread.

 

[MpuMngwana]

And non-randomly generated fetch quests - which are like 90% quests in Morrowind - are somehow better?

Yes, because there is usually some context to them, instead of "I lost my boots at the bottom of a 20-storey orc-infested dungeon help"

 

[Commissar Draco]

Bug-er-full had tits in game which alone makes Comrades, but seriously it was so shity made it was unplayable straight from box so no thanks. Most things that were cut from game were not so much useful (monster tongues and most of guilds) and some that were useful were put back onto game by mods like Bank of Vanderfell, What Morrowind had was robust RP engine, best inventory we had and hand crafted word full of hand placed dungeons, loot and quests with no hand holding at all, I played it five times and still found places I missed before and the setting and lore are also refreshing mix of total alien stuff with well paraphrased History, my most favorite RPG done in fantasy setting no doubt.

 

[Santander02]

Not all of the attributes matter in Morrowind. Personnality is useless whereas in daggerfall it was really helpful when you tried to debate to court (but court was removed in Morrrowind unfortunately)

I'll give you this but only because of the way the "bribe" mechanic is implemented, without it, it would be impossible to (easily) finish some quests without getting some NPC's above a certain dispostion. I wonder if modders have fixed that.

 

[xuerebx]

I know, i read this thread in the past. I wanted to complete the said thread.Keep in mind that i'm talking about daggerfall unity which is what Daggerfall was supposed to be. Some of his points are outdated now.

Didn't know about this Daggerfall Unity! Had a look on YouTube and it's nice. Still in version 0.10 but already looks good.

 

[Santander02]

I thought I was the only Ordinator in this entire forum O_o

 

[DarKPenguiN]

Yes you read it right, i mean every words.
This game was the first game in the elder scrolls that got rid of features and stuff.Instead of improving daggerfall and adding stuff, this game threw everything out of the window.
In total, Morrowind got rid of:

1. Skills:Orcish,Harpy,Deadric,Medecine,swimming,climbing,critical strike,Backstab,Centaurian,streetwise,SprigganThaumaturgy,Nymph,Orcish,Dragonish,dodging, Giantish,etiquette,Impish. A total of 19 skills removed in Morrowind only .3x times more skills removed between Daggerfall and Morrowind than Morrowind and Oblivion.
2. Main quest: Choices and consequences removed in Morrowind
3. NPC: No longer sleep, no longer answer you if they accept you in their houses. You can no longer ask for work.
4. Factions: 18 factions removed from Daggerfall, Temple factions gone, Knightly orders gone. Factions can no longer dismiss you and factions can no longer refuse you if you have a bad reputation.Faction reputation
5. Dungeons: hidden doors, traps, complexity.
6. Wereboar
7. Daggerfall 9 vampire Bloodlines-> 3 vampire bloodlines Morrowind
8. Witch covens
9. Court: debate or lie
10. Political entities
11. Cities can no longer ban you
12. 20 shrines in Daggerfall -> 11 Shrines in morrowind
13. Music that changes considering the mood
14. In daggerfall 2 hours OST -> 50 minutes in Morrowind
15. Banks, ship, letters of credit, carriage,horse,Bracers,and other items.
16. Character creation, edit reputations, deep background, you can no longer edit advantages and disadvantages.

The only things that morrowind has upon daggerfall are alien setting and everything hand-crafted.
2 steps forward 16 steps backward, and it goes downhill since morrowind.

...You dirty motherfucker.

 

[JDR13]

At least he finally moved on from The Witcher 3.

I wonder what's next.

 

[Duralux for Durabux]

...You dirty motherfucker.

I like morrowind, i really do but it pains me playing it .
It could have been so much better if they took daggerfall into consideration instead of streamlining (or deleting ) daggerfall's elements.
BTW I forgot that morrowind got rid of public events(it was a text that appears when you enter a town during a certain day) too.

At least he finally moved on from The Witcher 3.

I wonder what's next.

JDR13 my old friend. How are you in this fine day?

 

[vonAchdorf]

In total, Morrowind got rid of:

17. Naked paper dolls

 

[Santander02]

It could have been so much better if they took daggerfall into consideration instead of streamlining (or deleting ) daggerfall's elements.

This was never going to happen after Julian Lefay and Christopher Weaver were forced out. I know your pain, believe me I do. but MW was the best we were going to get without the old guard heading the ship.

 

[Tacgnol]

Morrowind and Gothic 2 are pretty much the pinnacle of the open worlder to me. Morrowind had the "scale" (even if it was somewhat artificial) and Gothic 2 has some of the best exploration I've ever played. I swear PB placed something in every nook and cranny.

Daggerfall I think was extremely impressive at release, but relied far too much on procedural generation. Sure 80k square miles is cool on paper, but if 99% of that is empty, what's the point?

 

[Egosphere]

Skyrim is the best in the series anyway so it doest really matter

 

[Santander02]

This thread is now about exploration based RPG's, The Gothics are good of course but I've already played them, I missed nacht des reiben tho, I've also heard good things about darklands, can anyone recommend?

 

[Tacgnol]

This thread is now about exploration based RPG's, Gothic is good of course but I've already played it, sans nacht des reiben, I've also heard good things about darklands, can anyone recommend?

Yes both to NOTR and Darklands.

Darklands has a very unique (pseudo-historical) setting and some pretty original ideas. It's worth a look at least once.

 

[Santander02]

I would also like to say that...I am looking forward...to the Gothic 1 remake...But... all the unnecesary....dialogue...and OMG action... sequences...have made me rather... pessimistic...as I write this comment... on the screen... on the rpgcodex forum... as I press...the Post reply button

 

[MWaser]

We're doing this again? Cherry picking negatives to make a purpose, without considering the improvements? In that way the same kind of arguments have been made over why Morrowind is inferior or identical to Skyrim, you people are BORING.

The only things I legitimately miss between daggerfall and Morrowind is the dungeon design (which was pretty interesting in Daggerfall, albeit sometimes pretty dick), and the character creation which was really nicely done in Daggerfall (but allowed for some excessive powergaming).