Morrowind was massive decline and should be considered as such

[Santander02]

Daggerfall's main cities:

Daggerfall hand crafted We can notice a big castle and a cemeterie for each capital

Wayrest hand-crafted
Morrowind's "cities"

Same building copy paste, the only differences are NPCs and items inside

Balmora: dozens of small houses that look the same from one to another, again only differences are NPCs and items inside
Thanks Morrowind for that, truly incline.

​

Bra, those Morrowind cities actually look good, now if you put Skyrim's and Oblivians "cities" you would have a point.

Now, City sizes, that's one aspect where CDprojekt did make Bethesduh look pathethic

 

[Duralux for Durabux]

Daggerfall's castles:
Sentinel:

Looks arabic and gorgeous with a sense of being really fucking massive
Wayrest's castle:

It's look totally different from the previous castle
Daggerfall's castle:

This looks like a real fucking castle
Morrowind's castles:

Really small castle but more detailed

Again medieval castle with a mushroom in it, not totally different in term of style

This castle looks impressive.
Edit : Lol Luj1 is butthurt, come on in buddy i want your arguments.

 

[Zer0wing]

Only castke that looks impressive. And again it's medieval nothing new in its architecture.

No, the designs looks alien enough to be impressive per se the problem in the other open world those castles are putted in. It's simply too cramped, undermines the looks of this architecture.

 

[Duralux for Durabux]

Holidays are all gone in Morrowind . And it's a huge decline because holidays made the world believable (well in theory). And Morrowind removed all of that.Holidays told all of the traditions of the daggerfall's people( and the traditions change depending on where you are located).It added additional lore and deep to the game.
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Holidays

 

[Butter]

Holidays are all gone in Morrowind . And it's a huge decline because holidays made the world believable (well in theory).

Daggerfall: The Post.

 

[Duralux for Durabux]

Daggerfall: The Post.

It would have been cool if we could have seen festivals in game.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

What's up with the "Ackchyually, it's Daggerfall that is the best TES games" meme nowadays.
Do people really prefer a country sized map filled with the same bland, copy-pasted shitty content over and over again, to a small but so well designed game world that you can find new shit every playtrough?

kills:Orcish,Harpy,Deadric,Medecine,swimming,climbing,critical strike,Backstab,Centaurian,streetwise,SprigganThaumaturgy,Nymph,Orcish,Dragonish,dodging, Giantish,etiquette,Impish.

Useless, useless, useless, you have restoration and alchemy, useless, meh, dumb, very dumb, useless, merged with speech like it should (having multiple skills for the same end goal is bad design), useless, incorporated in alteration and mysticism, useless, useless, useless, also very dumb (because like with Backstabbing you physically move and will your character to perform an action), useless, again merged with speech where it belongs, muda muda.

Main quest: Choices and consequences removed in Morrowind

Morrowind does have C&C, only it's effects are much more local. Plus Morrowind's main quest is much more engaging than Daggerfall's.

NPC: No longer sleep, no longer answer you if they accept you in their houses. You can no longer ask for work.

Lack routines is a weakness. But Daggerfall's NPC's don't have schedules as well, they are either stationary (found inside buildings), or wanderers (they spawn on the streets and at nigth their spawn rate is highly decreased). Shops are the one that have closing hours.
Finally, like everything else in Daggerfall jobs are randomly generated shit so nothing of value was lost.

Factions: 18 factions removed from Daggerfall, Temple factions gone, Knightly orders gone. Factions can no longer dismiss you and factions can no longer refuse you if you have a bad reputation.

All with barely any differences between and again all they offer you is randomly generated mineal shit. Might as well play an MMO really.
Also guilds in Morrowind can kick you out and your reputation (plus membership in rival factions) does affect your relations.

Dungeons: hidden doors, traps, complexity.

While their size is indeed impressive, their actual level design is a incoherent mess and due to them being randomly generated they get pretty old pretty fast.

Wereboar

Literally a different skin to Werewolf's.
There's no change to abilities granted and how you play and deal with in relation to a Werewolf.

Court: debate or lie

Neat idea but super underdeveloped.

Political entities

What are the Great Houses?

Cities can no longer ban you

Bounties achieve the same effect.

Music that changes considering the mood

What you mean music that changes depending on your PC current location and status (combat, exploration, different regions, dungeon crawling, cities, buildings)?
Because Morrowind has that.

20 shrines in Daggerfall -> 11 Shrines in morrowind

I think Morrowind wins this one:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Shrines

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Shrines

Banks, ship, letters of credit, carriage,horse,Bracers,and other items.

Morrowind's world size makes all those means of transport uneeded (plus they would've be a detriment to the exploration).
The economy system is decline, but much like the court system it's was a undeveloped concept - not only does it feel very incomplete but also there's no real incentive and risk to partake in it.
So the way it stood it was nothing but clutter. Sure they could've improved it, but you're forgetting that if Morrowind wasn't a success Bethseda would close down it's doors. So they decided to make a small but tight game over another big and ambitious pipe dream.

 

[Duralux for Durabux]

Useless, useless, useless, you have restoration and alchemy, useless, meh, dumb, very dumb, useless, merged with speech like it should (having multiple skills for the same end goal is just bad design), useless, incorporated in alteration and mysticism, useless, useless, useless, also very dumb (because like with Backstabbing you physically your character), useless, again merged with speech where it belongs, muda muda.

Todd howard listened to you well, that's why he removed nearly every skills in Skyrim

Morrowind does have C&C, only it's effects are much more local. Plus Morrowind's main quest is much better than Daggerfall's.

Have you seen the picture above ? The only choice you have is to kill Dagoth Ur.Daggerfall's main quest is better because of its complexity and real choices that matter the main quest.

Lack routines is a weakness. But Daggerfall's NPC's don't have schedules as well, they are either stationary (found inside buildings), or wanderers (they spawn on the streets and at nigth their spawn rate is highly decreased). Shops have closing hours.
Finally, like everything else in Daggerfall jobs are randomly generated shit so nothing of value was lost

Good point there, but instead of improving daggerfall's NPC's they made the most statics NPCs in one game: morrowind. Meanwhile in gothic 2 *cough* *cough*. Morrowind's side quests aren't good either, they are the typicall FedEX quests most of the time

All with barely any differences between and again all they offer you is randomly generated mineal shit. Might as well play an MMO really.
Also guilds in Morrowind can kick you out and your reputation (plus membership in rival factions) does affect your relations.

Funny , you talk about MMO, because Morrowind's guild's quests are the typical quests that you can expect for an MMO( bring me mushrooms,kill the rat , Kill NPC#10970). You know very well that factions relationships weren't as much developed in Morrowind

While their size is indeed impressive, their actual level design is a incoherent mess and due to them being randomly generated they get pretty old pretty fast.

Sure deleting the complexity of dungeons is the good thing to do instead of improving it. With this same mentality don't expect a modern day Ultima Underworld I tell ya.

Literally a different skin to Werewolf's.
There's no change to abilities granted and how you play and deal with in relation to a Werewolf.

Needed to be different instead of being deleted entirely

Neat idea but super underdeveloped.

Good idea, delete it instead of improving it

What are the Great Houses?

Really poorly made compared to daggerfall, in daggerfall every choices in region impact reputation in other regions

Bounties achieve the same effect.

Lol nope , going to jail and being banned is the same sentence to you? if yes you must check your laws immediatly

What you mean music that changes depending on your PC current location and status (combat, exploration, different regions, dungeon crawling, cities, buildings)?
Because Morrowind has that.

it was well made in morrowind, that is why i heard every fucking hour the epic main theme when i walk or i do nothing interesting. Perfectly fit with the moment 10/10. Hearing the same music over and over again is frustrating

I think Morrowind wins this one:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Shrines

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Shrines

20 shrines >13 shrines again Daggerfall wins

So the way it stood it was nothing but clutter. Sure they could've improved it, but you're forgetting that if Morrowind wasn't a success Bethseda would close down it's doors.

If a franchise loose his ambition, don't expect a good game in the serie anymore Because it all started with morrowind that lost the ambition.
Morrowind was the dumbed down Daggerfall. Oblivion was the dumbed down Morrowind. Skyrim was the dumbed down Oblivion and so on and so on.

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

People are missing OP point, 70% of these Daggerfall features are useless or bad implemented, but a sequel should improve the features of its predecessor, making them useful, instead of removing them completely. Imagine if Morrwind had a Language skills system that actually works.

Those who are shilling for Morrowind decline, are same ones who shill for Baldur's Gate 2 dumbed down world exploration, saying that BG1 was empty. I admit that most of BG1 wilderness areas lacked content, but a sequel should improve it, not remove it.

 

[JDR13]

You guys are better off not even trying to argue with Dr Autism.

 

[Poseidon00]

I will admit that Morrowind was decline in some ways, and Daggerfall is the superior game. Many of the underdeveloped concepts should have been expanded upon, not cut. A court system, getting exiled, defaulting on loans, speaking with monsters, all had real potential. They didn't even try.

 

[smaug]

Muh climbing

 

[M. AQVILA]

People are missing OP point, 70% of these Daggerfall features are useless or bad implemented, but a sequel should improve the features of its predecessor, making them useful, instead of removing them completely. Imagine if Morrwind had a Language skills system that actually works.

Imagine if game development didn't cost money.

 

[Serious_Business]

It was so much better

When man

Was not what he is now

And did not

Play video games

What do you think of this sharp emotional poem

 

[Hellion]

I've come to realize that the vast majority of people who blindly and unequivocally prefer Daggerfall over Morrowind do so mainly due to nostalgia goggles. And I can sympathize with that, since I was 10 years old when Daggerfall came out and I played the shit out of it back in the day and over the years. Not to mention that the "older TES is best TES" sentiment cannot help but be further enhanced due to the decline that is nuTES.

However, after everything we've seen in gaming since then, it's rather silly to actually praise some of Daggerfall's objectively worst features (like its comically chaotic dungeon design and random-generated dungeon-crawling missions that could literally take hours to finish, if they didn't bug out or lead to a dead end due to the random dungeon generator).

Even Julian LeFay himself has called Daggerfall "the greatest missed opportunity of his lifetime" in a forum post some time ago, and that says something. His development team was tiny, the scope of the project was over-ambitious, and he originally wanted the game to have an additional year of development time and be released in 1997 instead of 1996 but his request was denied by Bethesda management so a lot of stuff got axed or remained staggeringly underdeveloped and buggy.

That doesn't change the fact that some elements of the game were trully inspired. Its Reputations system, for example: Commoners, Merchants, Nobles, Underworld, Knight Orders, Mages, Temples, Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, Vampire Clans, citizens of a particular town/country, each having their own rep stat which, among others, affects how NPCs react to the player and even which guilds he can join. It remains in my mind one of the game's defining features that could and should be implemented to more modern games, TES or otherwise. But Morrowind, for the most part, struck a fine balance between Daggerfall's "chaotic hardcoreness" and a more streamlined but still enjoyable RPG experience overall.

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

People are missing OP point, 70% of these Daggerfall features are useless or bad implemented, but a sequel should improve the features of its predecessor, making them useful, instead of removing them completely. Imagine if Morrwind had a Language skills system that actually works.

Imagine if game development didn't cost money.

Agree. Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, Skyrim and Fallout 76 are just capitalism symptoms.

Bethesda did nothing wrong, ever.

 

[M. AQVILA]

I'm pretty sure Morrowind was a do or die for Bethesda. They were in pretty dire straits.

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

However, Morrowind is a bad sequel and dumbed down, that's a fact.

Justified ? maybe, maybe...

 

[Bigg Boss]

Morrowind was a massive decline in skills and factions and size because Daggerfall was a massively ambitious game that tried to do too much without enough time and money and failed. That is why they now give the game away for free.

 

[Calm]

I thought I was the only Ordinator in this entire forum O_o

Well it’s clear what you have to do then.
It’s illegal for non-ordinations to wear the mask.
All pretender scum must be killed on sight.

 

[RhodokMasterRaceOfficial]

Who are the Indoril?
Why do they wear the masks?

 

[Funposter]

oh no not the skill that gave me a chance to pacify a single enemy which only appeared in 2 out of 18 dungeon types. i'm really pissed off that it was removed.

 

[Drowed]

Daggerfall was like having an entire garage of different and sophisticated tools to work with but only being able to use clay and sand as material in an area of 500 kilometers: you can even do some impressive stuff at first, but after a while it's all more of the same, everywhere. It's an emblematic game to see the deficiencies that the procedural generation causes in a game. It's the ancestor of No Man's Sky with its "infinite content" and "quadrillions of different planets and species" - it's not a lie, but it's not entirely true either.

Morrowind is like having just one toolbox, in an area of 100 meters, but having access to all kinds of raw material. In a sense, it is much more limited and smaller in scale, but you have a much wider experience in the type of scenario you encounter. Yes, the way you have access to content is more limited, but on the other hand you have the chance to see things that really look different and are not the result of an algorithm. You don't have a checklist with 300 skills, but at least you have a more frequent and logical use of the skills you actually have.

I get the impression that people who love games like Daggerfall are more imaginative people, who "fill" the world with their own ideas and things that are not actually described or represented in the game itself. That makes the game seem to be something much more grandiose than what it actually is. In a way, I envy these people.

 

[DalekFlay]

Now, City sizes, that's one aspect where CDprojekt did make Bethesduh look pathethic

Witcher 3 excels at medieval city atmosphere, sure. However there's very little reactivity, and very little to the city quests other than the same follow the marker shit of the wilderness quests. In contrast Morrowind (and to a lesser extent the others) has a lot more quest and character depth in the cities. Though this has its own faults, as their cities tend to feel much smaller due to the greater attention paid to each NPC and house. It works best when the city is believably smaller, like most of Morrowind's cities and the typical settlement in a Piranha Bytes game.

 

[MWaser]

I get the impression that people who love games like Daggerfall are more imaginative people, who "fill" the world with their own ideas and things that are not actually described or represented in the game itself. That makes the game seem to be something much more grandiose than what it actually is. In a way, I envy these people.

If you are really imaginative, you'll have more fun creating your own experience without needing a janky sandbox to satisfy your need for a limited background.