Morrowind was massive decline and should be considered as such

[Arbiter]

Julian LeFey was gone by that time and the rest of the team preferred to play it safer this time, to set more realistic goals and not to deliver another Buggerrwind.

As if Morrowind wasn't a buggy mess too,keep in mind that the mod the most downloaded on nexus for morrowind is a bug-fixing and mechanics-fixing mod.

Daggerfall was so bad that I experienced save corruption when playing the game in early 2000s with latest patches installed.

I played Morrowind 1 or 2 years after the release, patched to the latest version at that time, and never encountered any game breaking bugs.

 

[Drowed]

Duroy is arguing for the game that Daggerfall could have been, more than what the game actually was. Speaking things like "Daggerfall has 200+ skills", which is a fact, too bad that 180+ of them are there for practically nothing. "Daggerfall has 5 different taverns per city", which is also true, but it's a pity they are functionally identical and after visiting one, you visited them all. "Daggerfall has 50 factions" which is totally true, too bad they interact with you in exactly the same way in your procedurally generated content.

Daggerfall is a giant checklist of "great things in theory" that in practice have been implemented as generically as possible. Whoever played the first 2 hours of Daggerfall saw essentially everything the game will offer you in the next 30 hours. If you took the mechanics from Daggerfall and made a good implementation of them, in fact, maybe could have the ultimate RPG, the most vast and complete game ever made.

But that was a big "if" that never happened.

 

[Duralux for Durabux]

Duroy is arguing for the game that Daggerfall could have been, more than what the game actually was. Speaking things like "Daggerfall has 200+ skills", which is a fact, too bad that 180+ of them are there for practically nothing. "Daggerfall has 5 different taverns per city", which is also true, but it's a pity they are functionally identical and after visiting one, you visited them all. "Daggerfall has 50 factions" which is totally true, too bad they interact with you in exactly the same way in your procedurally generated content.

Daggerfall is a giant checklist of "great things in theory" that in practice have been implemented as generically as possible. Whoever played the first 2 hours of Daggerfall saw essentially everything the game will offer you in the next 30 hours. If you took the mechanics from Daggerfall and made a good implementation of them, in fact, maybe could have the ultimate RPG, the most vast and complete game ever made.

But that was a big "if" that never happened.

Here is the most honest review about Daggerfall rather than your review. Morrowind could have been so much more.

 

[MWaser]

Duroy is arguing for the game that Daggerfall could have been, more than what the game actually was. Speaking things like "Daggerfall has 200+ skills", which is a fact, too bad that 180+ of them are there for practically nothing. "Daggerfall has 5 different taverns per city", which is also true, but it's a pity they are functionally identical and after visiting one, you visited them all. "Daggerfall has 50 factions" which is totally true, too bad they interact with you in exactly the same way in your procedurally generated content.

Daggerfall is a giant checklist of "great things in theory" that in practice have been implemented as generically as possible. Whoever played the first 2 hours of Daggerfall saw essentially everything the game will offer you in the next 30 hours. If you took the mechanics from Daggerfall and made a good implementation of them, in fact, maybe could have the ultimate RPG, the most vast and complete game ever made.

But that was a big "if" that never happened.

I gave you a decline rating, but not because I disagree with you, but because you're wasting time arguing with either a troll or a delusional /ideologically blinded asshat.

 

[Duralux for Durabux]

I gave you a decline rating, but not because I disagree with you, but because you're wasting time arguing with either a troll or a delusional /ideologically blinded asshat.

Fine , unsulting someone isn't mature either.Saying there are choices and concequences in Morrowind isn't delusional ? Saying that Morrowind is the perfect sequel is not ideology? Saying that Morrowind is full of interesting quests isn't ideology too?
Being a total fanboy of Morrowind and not admitting not a single flaw in it but instead shitting on daggerfall and ignoring his release date isn't trolling? And of course it's all about me, i'm obviously a Troll/dumbfuck/retard/assfuck/asshat/motherfucker/son of a bitch/ piece of shit /delusional idiot because I don't please the Almighty Codex that talks about decline everyday but plays and enjoys every decline games .What a joke!
And again I'm not delusional i admit that daggerfall is deeply flawed.
Hey let's shitting on Oblivion all other again. Morrowind is the perfect sequel no doubt about it .

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Serious Question Time: Are Codexers when seen by outsiders look like that George guy to us? Because if so, then I somehow start to understand why people hate us.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Serious Question Time: Are Codexers when seen by outsiders look like that George guy to us? Because if so, then I somehow start to understand why people hate us.

He seems like a typical Codexer to me. It's not like "what you consider good was actually already declined" is an unique viewpoint here. I mean you come to this place and see people that consider Fallouts and Troika games pinnacle of RPGs, then come the dungeon crawler fans who claim that shifting focus from dungeon exploration to story was already a decline. Then you see old-school dungeon crawling fans who believe that later dungeon crawlers like Wizardry 6-8 were watered down compared to earlier Wizardry titles. This thread is actually not that outlandish.

 

[Desiderius]

I liked the design space Daggerfall opened up. Morrowind was about abandoning that space to go in the opposite direction and Oblivion demonstrates the suckitude of that choice.

It’s fair to identify Morrowind as the place where the wrong turn was taken even if it’s a better game than Oblivion.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Serious Question Time: Are Codexers when seen by outsiders look like that George guy to us? Because if so, then I somehow start to understand why people hate us.

This thread is actually not that outlandish.

If you REALLY hated Daggerfall it is


I disagree with, but I can understand combat-only fundamentalist codexer perspective, but it's difficult to understand perspective of someone who seems to seriously think that ocean of copy pasted content with a failed promise of something greater is a superior game to Morrowind.

 

[Desiderius]

Serious Question Time: Are Codexers when seen by outsiders look like that George guy to us? Because if so, then I somehow start to understand why people hate us.

This thread is actually not that outlandish.

If you REALLY hated Daggerfall it is


I disagree with, but I can understand combat-only fundamentalist codexer perspective, but it's difficult to understand perspective of someone who seems to seriously think that ocean of copy pasted content with a failed promise of something greater is a superior game to Morrowind.

Funny thing is that I don’t think it is but still think Morrowind is where things went wrong. They could have fulfilled that promise instead of retracting it.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Lol Daggerfall is like 80% randomly generated crap. Morrowind is the better games by miles.

 

[Desiderius]

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

I loved Daggerfall and was really excited at the idea that the next installment would be even greater (not talking about world size). I remember the day I finally played the game, all my enthusiasm was killed in a matter of hours. Pretty much like what the Daggerfall haters feel. The thing that really killed the game (as a Daggerfall sequel, not as a game per se) was the skill training.

Going from this :

A training session lasts for three hours and consumes 30 fatigue points. If you have less than 31 fatigue points you will drop to the floor from exhaustion upon completing the session, and awaken one hour later. You can only train once every twelve hours, regardless of which trainer you ask. That is, after finishing a session, you must wait an additional nine hours before you are able to receive another.

to this :

There is no cap on how often a skill can be trained in this manner, skills can be trained often as a player wishes.

and being able to train my armour skill up by 10 fucking points in a mere minute by repeatedly clicking on some dude's dialogue line was like a fucking bitchslap. To increase a skill that much in Daggerfall, with or without trainers, was a matter of days (and spare me the "hopping on place like a cocained rabbit" crap, not everyone powergames like a dick, some people play) and felt really rewarding. I can understand why people love Morrowind, and it's not a bad game by any means, but a step in the wrong direction it certainly is.

 

[Butter]

The time element matters in Daggerfall because of timed quests. Morrowind doesn't have timed quests (maybe it should) so that would just add a nuisance.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

If you're refering to my post, I meant actual days, not in-game ones. Unless you played 10 hours a day (and probably even then) that's what it took to get a boost that great.

 

[MWaser]

On the other hand, in Daggerfall you can train up all your magic skills from starting values to the cap by rapid-fire casting your entire mana pool on 5-mana spells that contain 3 different magic schools, and then travelling cautiously between cities.
The spell casting animation is so fast that this entire process takes like 20 minutes. (takes slightly longer now in Daggerfall Unity because it doesn't let you begin the casting of next spell while the previous one's jazz hands animation is still ongoing)

The skill training in Morrowind is pretty overpowered, but I think it was a pretty important balancing feature - somewhat evened out by the fact that there were no high level skill trainers available easily, and without a guide it's hard to find the actual master trainers to go all the way.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Serious Question Time: Are Codexers when seen by outsiders look like that George guy to us? Because if so, then I somehow start to understand why people hate us.

This thread is actually not that outlandish.

If you REALLY hated Daggerfall it is


I disagree with, but I can understand combat-only fundamentalist codexer perspective, but it's difficult to understand perspective of someone who seems to seriously think that ocean of copy pasted content with a failed promise of something greater is a superior game to Morrowind.

There are different perspectives for all issues. I have hard time understanding how people can consider Morrowind's ocean of copy pasted content superior to Gothic 2.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

On the other hand, in Daggerfall you can train up all your magic skills from starting values to the cap by rapid-fire casting your entire mana pool on 5-mana spells that contain 3 different magic schools, and then travelling cautiously between cities.
The spell casting animation is so fast that this entire process takes like 20 minutes.

This boils down to :

spare me the "hopping on place like a cocained rabbit" crap

which I don't, or hardly do. As I said, I play, I don't powergame like an imbecile. I have nothing against you personally, but god, am I tired of this same old tune.
Note that I could refrain from training in Morrowind and upgrade my skills through use, just like I could refrain from abusing Daggerfall system. But I somehow had a harder time doing that. Probably because it was still way more boring and took longer in Daggerfall than just clicking a couple of times on a dialogue line in Morrowind.

 

[Zibniyat]

because I don't please the Almighty Codex that talks about decline everyday but plays and enjoys every decline games .What a joke!

This is true guys and you know it.

 

[mondblut]

I disagree with, but I can understand combat-only fundamentalist codexer perspective, but it's difficult to understand perspective of someone who seems to seriously think that ocean of copy pasted content with a failed promise of something greater is a superior game to Morrowind.

In the days of Arena and Daggerfall, TES had a dream. A dream of creating a life-sized world of unlimited adventure. Pro-tip: look out the window and you'll see tons of copy pasted content.

Meanwhile, Morrowind is just another child's sandbox with 5 "large towns" of 10 houses and 20 inhabitants, same as 100 child's sandboxes before it and 200 after it. Fine, you won - you took the most revolutionary RPG series and castrated it into another Ultima. Why, then, you are still butthurt that Daggerfall even existed, 25 years down the line?

 

[mondblut]

Do people really prefer a country sized map filled with the same bland, copy-pasted shitty content over and over again,

Yes.

to a small but so well designed game world that you can find new shit every playtrough?

You have every other RPG series for that. Can't tolerate even one that has it different?

 

[Bigg Boss]

Julian LeFey was gone by that time and the rest of the team preferred to play it safer this time, to set more realistic goals and not to deliver another Buggerrwind.

As if Morrowind wasn't a buggy mess too,keep in mind that the mod the most downloaded on nexus for morrowind is a bug-fixing and mechanics-fixing mod.

Thought experiment: It's early 1997 and you're working on Fallout. There are dozens of terrible FedEx side quests and the testers have all complained about them.

I never said they should have kept the FedEx quests from Daggerfall but instead improve them make them interesting for the player. Morrowind has tons of FedEx quests too but everyone here forgets it.

News flash autist. The most downloaded mod for most games is a bug fix mod.

So what's the functional difference in Daggerfall's dozen different stores and taverns in each city?

You act as if Daggerfall's cities had dozens of unique buildings, when they're just as copypasted as Morrowind's (if not even more so). Daggerfall's cities give you the illusion of size by being realistically scaled, but there's no real difference between the 5 taverns in the same town. Stores only differ in their stock but usually have similar or even same layouts.

Daggerfall's stores:

Quality: low

Quality: High. We can see that the store is bigger
Sentinel's stores are different but i have no screenshots of them
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:General_Stores



Daggerfall's tavern

AT LEAST Daggerfall tried.

Morrowind's tavern:

Morrowind's Taverns are even more lifeless than daggerfall's taverns. I know what you will say it's artificial. Yes it is but at least why don't they improve NPCs and improve taverns in morrowind instead of streamlining?
Morrowind said Fuck it.

That is a cherry picked example you fucking goon. Man this is not a troll. You are just a dumbass.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

In the days of Arena and Daggerfall, TES had a dream. A dream of creating a life-sized world of unlimited adventure.

So true. Now, whether it could have been achieved or not is open to debate. Most people think it couldn't, I think it could. Anyway, reality, profit, casuals and their consoles reared their ugly heads, so now we'll probably never know. Dreaming is a lost art.

 

[Duralux for Durabux]

The title of the thread is stupid, it would have been better with "Morrowind lost the dream of The Elder Scrolls serie" , I apologize for that. I can't change it now.

Serious Question Time: Are Codexers when seen by outsiders look like that George guy to us? Because if so, then I somehow start to understand why people hate us.

I'm sorry if i've been irritating, I'll stop to be a dumbass or a dumbfuck. But Thanks for opening my eyes.

So true. Now, whether it could have been achieved or not is open to debate. Most people think it couldn't, I think it could. Anyway, reality, profit, casuals and their consoles reared their ugly heads, so now we'll probably never know. Dreaming is a lost art.

That's why I talked about Morrowind, it's the first game of the elder scrolls serie released in a console. Thus naturally the ambition was reduced. And it would never come back again because of how Morrowind sold well on console.

News flash autist. The most downloaded mod for most games is a bug fix mod.

True, anyway it doesn't excuse morrowind for being a buggy mess too

That is a cherry picked example you fucking goon. Man this is not a troll. You are just a dumbass.

I'm sorry, i'll try to better next time.
In Morrowind, taverns aren't that populated, that was my point.

 

[the mole]

There is no debate that Morrowind dumbed down the most important part of the game

The dungeons

That's why Oblivion is better