Morrowind was massive decline and should be considered as such

[FranticDistortion]

I'd agree, but poster is retarded, so I will disagree.

 

[xuerebx]

I thought I was the only Ordinator in this entire forum O_o

Hey, I joined a year before you!

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

I remember trying to get into Daggerfall twice. In both cases I loved the promise of complexity, only to get upset when seeing past the mirage. Daggerfall is just a bunch randomly generated content pretending to be a real game.

Literally the only good, interesting thing I remember about Daggerfall (apart from music) is advantages/disadvantages system influencing the amount of xp you needed for next level.

 

[TheImplodingVoice]

Yes you read it right, i mean every words.
This game was the first game in the elder scrolls that got rid of features and stuff.Instead of improving daggerfall and adding stuff, this game threw everything out of the window.
In total, Morrowind got rid of:

1. Skills:Orcish,Harpy,Deadric,Medecine,swimming,climbing,critical strike,Backstab,Centaurian,streetwise,SprigganThaumaturgy,Nymph,Orcish,Dragonish,dodging, Giantish,etiquette,Impish. A total of 19 skills removed in Morrowind only .3x times more skills removed between Daggerfall and Morrowind than Morrowind and Oblivion.
2. Main quest: Choices and consequences removed in Morrowind
3. NPC: No longer sleep, no longer answer you if they accept you in their houses. You can no longer ask for work.
4. Factions: 18 factions removed from Daggerfall, Temple factions gone, Knightly orders gone. Factions can no longer dismiss you and factions can no longer refuse you if you have a bad reputation.Faction reputation
5. Dungeons: hidden doors, traps, complexity.
6. Wereboar
7. Daggerfall 9 vampire Bloodlines-> 3 vampire bloodlines Morrowind
8. Witch covens
9. Court: debate or lie
10. Political entities
11. Cities can no longer ban you
12. 20 shrines in Daggerfall -> 11 Shrines in morrowind
13. Music that changes considering the mood
14. In daggerfall 2 hours OST -> 50 minutes in Morrowind
15. Banks, ship, letters of credit, carriage,horse,Bracers,and other items.
16. Character creation, edit reputations, deep background, you can no longer edit advantages and disadvantages.

The only things that morrowind has upon daggerfall are alien setting and everything hand-crafted.
2 steps forward 16 steps backward, and it goes downhill since morrowind.

 

[Duralux for Durabux]

Thanks, But have you read the entire thread? instead of shitposting why don't you try to understand what i'm saying?
I never said Daggerfall was perfect, i wanted to point out that morrowind is a disappointment for me. It could have been so much better instead of what we got.
BTW I like Morrowind,please try to understand what I'm trying to argue. In my opinion Morrowind should have been a mix of Todd Howard style (everything hand crafted) and the Julian lefay style (Battlespire and Daggerfall). It would be the perfect mix.

 

[JarlFrank]

Morrowind has less quantity but higher quality.

What Morrowind has:

- a strange, alien world with interesting lore
- a hand-crafted landmass with interesting landmarks to explore
- a handful of well-designed dungeons with architecture that makes use of the levitation spell
- possibly the greatest variety of weapons and armor in any RPG ever, including powerful unique items deliberately placed in hand-picked locations
- faction questlines with some choices and conflicts between each other (fighters guild vs thieves guild, for example)

What Daggerfall has:
- huge dungeons but they start to feel samey after the dozenth dungeon because they're all made from the same building blocks that were stitched together by a random generator
- barebones NPC interaction that doesn't go past asking for locations and accepting quests
- nothing whatsoever to discover on the overworld

Daggerfall has great systems - possibly some of the greatest systems in RPGs ever - but it barely has any content since 90% of what's there has been randomly generated from basic building blocks. Morrowind has one of the most beautiful worlds ever, with memorable geographic landmarks and stuff to discover at every corner. Daggerfall has an endless plain with no geographical features at all. Morrowind's dungeons are mostly small and unremarkable, but it also has a couple of really good ones. Most of the good ones are main quest related, but then again all of Daggerfall's handmade dungeons were main quest related. All the others gave you "dungeon vu" because you keep seeing the same building blocks over and over.

Whether you prefer Daggerfall or Morrowind depends on whether you value content more, or value systems more. I'm an explorefag with a raging hard-on for level design, so I prefer Morrowind.

 

[JarlFrank]

I never played Daggerfall though. Is it worth playing these days and if so, where would I start to let it run on a modern system?

Install daggerfall unity, D.R.E.A.M if you want better graphics

D.R.E.A.M

better graphics

Spoiler

Horribly blurry upscaled sprites and portraits over the crisp original pixel art

HD textures slapped onto Daggerfall's low poly dungeon architecture, utterly clashing with the low poly environments

"Better graphics" indeed.

 

[anvi]

Most of these confuse "more" with "better" or "richer." It's like when some on here confuse any kind of added complexity as a good thing, even if it's nonsensical and adds nothing fulfilling gameplay wise. Simplifying and "dumbing down" are when you take a worthwhile and rich mechanic that adds depth and remove it because retards can't figure it out. It's not when you take something cumbersome or unwieldy and make it more focused and straightforward.

That's a shit narrative to take when half of those things were really good.

 

[Grognardius Rex]

WTF are you people on that are praising Morrowind for being hand crafted? There are only about a half dozen dungeons in the whole damn game that have simply been copied and pasted with the furniture rearranged ad nauseum. You know by what the entrance looks like what you’re going to find inside. What kind of soulless automaton would “craft” shit like that? Even Ultima IX had better dungeon design. I’m not sure what’s worse, the lack of talent that creates such monotonous content, or the mindless robots who are content to explore it.

 

[anvi]

Morrowind has less quantity but higher quality.

Morrowind? Quality? Wtf... I completed it but it was janky as fuck and the combat was terrible which is what you are doing 80% of the time, 1% wrangling the crappy interface in conversations and selling etc, and the other 19% is spent walking miles and miles through endless brown with endless hawk attacks.

 

[Duralux for Durabux]

Morrowind has less quantity but higher quality.

What Morrowind has:

- a strange, alien world with interesting lore : Okay
- a hand-crafted landmass with interesting landmarks to explore : Not all of the locations are interesting
- a handful of well-designed dungeons with architecture that makes use of the levitation spell ( Euh in comparison to daggerfall it was ridiculous)
- possibly the greatest variety of weapons and armor in any RPG ever, including powerful unique items deliberately placed in hand-picked locations: Okay I agree
- faction questlines with some choices and conflicts between each other (fighters guild vs thieves guild, for example): Pretty lame if you ask me, in daggerfall it was better if you are a member of the Dark Brotherhood you can't be a member of the mage guild etc...

What Daggerfall has:
- huge dungeons but they start to feel samey after the dozenth dungeon because they're all made from the same building blocks that were stitched together by a random generator (Hardware limitations julian lefay explained why layouts were not many)
- barebones NPC interaction that doesn't go past asking for locations and accepting quests (same goes for morrowind)
- nothing whatsoever to discover on the overworld: not totally true.

And some of the points you quoted below are wrong but anyway . You put morrowind far ahead of what it is really . In fact, its level design is the same of the one in Skyrim (still linear in Morrowind). Todd Howard hasn't changed. Morrowind doesn't have the best world ever made it's actually wrong,and for the 'memorial landscapes' point please put out your nostalgia glasses.
Besides, Daggerfall isn't radomly generated , its world is proceduraly generated not the same. Main quest's dungeons -(and Capitals) are hand-crafted and guess what they are better than every dungeons in Morrowind (in term of complexity).

 

[anvi]

WTF are you people on that are praising Morrowind for being hand crafted? There are only about a half dozen dungeons in the whole damn game that have simply been copied and pasted with the furniture rearranged ad nauseum. You know by what the entrance looks like what you’re going to find inside. What kind of soulless automaton would “craft” shit like that? Even Ultima IX had better dungeon design. I’m not sure what’s worse, the lack of talent that creates such monotonous content, or the mindless robots who are content to explore it.

This was made for FPS decline but decline of dungeons is the same.

 

[JarlFrank]

WTF are you people on that are praising Morrowind for being hand crafted? There are only about a half dozen dungeons in the whole damn game that have simply been copied and pasted with the furniture rearranged ad nauseum. You know by what the entrance looks like what you’re going to find inside. What kind of soulless automaton would “craft” shit like that? Even Ultima IX had better dungeon design. I’m not sure what’s worse, the lack of talent that creates such monotonous content, or the mindless robots who are content to explore it.

The overworld is hand-crafted and has a great design in the way it guides your exploration with the placement of mountain ranges, canyons, etc.

 

[Poseidon00]

Morrowind was ruined for me because I couldn't speak Nymph.

 

[DalekFlay]

And some of the points you quoted below are wrong but anyway . You put morrowind far ahead of what it is really . In fact, its level design is the same of the one in Skyrim (still linear in Morrowind). Todd Howard hasn't changed. Morrowind doesn't have the best world ever made it's actually wrong,and for the 'memorial landscapes' point please put out your nostalgia glasses. Besides, Daggerfall isn't radomly generated , its world is proceduraly generated not the same. Main quest's dungeons and Capitals are hand-crafted and guess what they are better than every dungeons in Morrowind (in term of complexoty).

Morrowind has more interesting dungeons than people act like it does. This is due to variety... the game has a massive number of dungeons, and some of them are shorter and more simple, while others are longer and more intricate. They also put a lot of effort into the dungeons and caves below Mournhold for the first expansion, which is basically a whole campaign focused on dungeon delving beneath a city Ultima Underworld style. Even Oblivion I remember having some relatively complex dungeons, especially elven ruins, even though they tended to wrap you back around to the start most of the time. Skyrim was the one that felt like it had really linear and FPS style dungeons, to my memory.

 

[V_K]

nothing whatsoever to discover on the overworld

Witch covens.

 

[FranticDistortion]

I never played Daggerfall though. Is it worth playing these days and if so, where would I start to let it run on a modern system?

Install daggerfall unity, D.R.E.A.M if you want better graphics

D.R.E.A.M

better graphics

Spoiler

Horribly blurry upscaled sprites and portraits over the crisp original pixel art

HD textures slapped onto Daggerfall's low poly dungeon architecture, utterly clashing with the low poly environments

"Better graphics" indeed.

True

 

[Santander02]

Sweet Nerevar, whatever happened to lutojar's portraits??

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

WTF are you people on that are praising Morrowind for being hand crafted? There are only about a half dozen dungeons in the whole damn game that have simply been copied and pasted with the furniture rearranged ad nauseum. You know by what the entrance looks like what you’re going to find inside. What kind of soulless automaton would “craft” shit like that? Even Ultima IX had better dungeon design. I’m not sure what’s worse, the lack of talent that creates such monotonous content, or the mindless robots who are content to explore it.

You are entirely correct. The whole purpose of exploring the world is finding something new. I can't really say that I'm exploring a new dungeon when I see the entrance and can tell more or less what's inside? Oh, an ancestral tomb? I guess there will be some ghosts, and maybe those zombie things that paralyze me. If I'm super lucky I may run into vampires there. Oh, a normal cave? Kwama and bandits I guess. I stopped bothering exploring places that weren't tied to any quests halfway through because most of the time it simply wasn't worth it.
Compare it to Might and Magic VI and VII where every dungeon will have different arrangement of monsters, and many dungeons will be populated by monsters that aren't encountered anywhere else. The idea of a generic dungeon that is there to fill place is pointless. Dungeon should be a strange and mysterious place.
Morrowind was a good game by itself, but it was a herald of the times to come. Generic content copy-pasted over, and over again just to make the world seem bigger.

 

[Duralux for Durabux]

Here let's get a comparison between daggerfall's dungeons and main quest,morrowind's dungeons and main quest,etc...
Daggerfall's main quest:

Morrowind's main quest :

Daggerfall's dungeon:

Morrowind's dungeon:

 

[V_K]

HD textures slapped onto Daggerfall's low poly dungeon architecture, utterly clashing with the low poly environments

Personally, I like the hi-res low-poly look. It's clean and easy to read. Upscaled sprites, not so much.

 

[Santander02]

Morrowind has more interesting dungeons than people act like it does. This is due to variety... the game has a massive number of dungeons, and some of them are shorter and more simple, while others are longer and more intricate. They also put a lot of effort into the dungeons and caves below Mournhold for the first expansion, which is basically a whole campaign focused on dungeon delving beneath a city Ultima Underworld style. Even Oblivion I remember having some relatively complex dungeons, especially elven ruins, even though they tended to wrap you back around to the start most of the time. Skyrim was the one that felt like it had really linear and FPS style dungeons, to my memory.

Simpler, unique dungeons>long repetitive dungeons (in open world games at least), one of the key reasons MW and the Gothics are better than oblivians, rymjobs and witchers, fuck the "everything has to be EPIC" obsession.

 

[Duralux for Durabux]

Daggerfall's main cities:

Daggerfall hand crafted We can notice a big castle and a cemeterie for each capital

Wayrest hand-crafted
Morrowind's "cities"

Same building copy paste, the only differences are NPCs and items inside

Balmora: dozens of small houses that look the same from one to another, again only differences are NPCs and items inside
Thanks Morrowind for that, truly incline.

 

[vonAchdorf]

Balmora: dozens of small houses that look the same from one to another, again only differences are NPCs and items inside

And players still managed not to find Caius Cosades.

 

[Zer0wing]

Daggerfall is great in a lot of ways, but randomized worlds are fucking stupid. Level/world design matters.

You just haven't been in Daggerfalls handcrafted dungeons, cities to throw this saying. If you were, you'd pray for randomizer to come back, zoomer.