Game News Age of Decadence September Update

[Vault Dweller]

They paid for a quality game which we intend to deliver. We gave them the combat demo, the 'full' demo, which was updated 3 times to reflect the criticism and suggestions (took us more than 6 months to do that), and now they will get an extended demo, giving them 60% of the game and assuring them that they are getting exactly what they paid for.

I think that all in all, we're treating our customers with a lot more respect than most companies.

That's not the point. The release date matters. Your "does it matter?" is an inappropriately glib dismissal.

The first question was 'how long until it beats Duke Nukem', which sets the tone of the conversation. The second comment was 'why bother playing an incomplete game?'. What do you want me to say to that? I don't think that SuicideBunny is a paying customer or someone interested in the game. I could be wrong, but I think he belongs to the 'other' camp. First search result gave me this: 'pretty sure if aod ever hits the market, nobody will give a fuck anymore'.

 

[Fireblade]

They paid for a quality game which we intend to deliver. We gave them the combat demo, the 'full' demo, which was updated 3 times to reflect the criticism and suggestions (took us more than 6 months to do that), and now they will get an extended demo, giving them 60% of the game and assuring them that they are getting exactly what they paid for.

I think that all in all, we're treating our customers with a lot more respect than most companies.

That's not the point. The release date matters. Your "does it matter?" is an inappropriately glib dismissal.

Well, he was responding to someone making a joke about Duke Nukem... I pre-ordered (for more than asking price too), but don't care when it's released as long as it's not before it's ready. Nothing was ever promised at the time of pre-order anyway, just a vague 2013 possibility.

 

[Lorica]

I knew what I was getting into when I pre-ordered, too, given the track record of indie pre-orders and the statements of the devs. Customer relations have been just fine for me so far. I prefer no firm release date to numerous delays.

 

[J_C]

They paid for a quality game which we intend to deliver. We gave them the combat demo, the 'full' demo, which was updated 3 times to reflect the criticism and suggestions (took us more than 6 months to do that), and now they will get an extended demo, giving them 60% of the game and assuring them that they are getting exactly what they paid for.

I think that all in all, we're treating our customers with a lot more respect than most companies.

That's not the point. The release date matters. Your "does it matter?" is an inappropriately glib dismissal.

I pre-ordered (for more than asking price too), but don't care when it's released as long as it's not before it's ready.

Most decent Codexers think (rightfully so), that it is better to delay a game, than releasing it half backed. And obviously I agree with them. The W2, PE, D:OS devs should take their time and polish up their game. But I think there is a point when the delay matters. I will buy the game when it is released, beause I'm loving what I'm seeing, but I won't pre order it, because I don't feel comfortable giving money to someone, who just can't finish a game, and they don't even know when will they finish it, because they always find something to change. To be honest, I wouldn't believe them even if they said a date. I believe it when i see it. I'm not a dev, but I think there should be a point when you say to yourself: "OK, this is what we want to release, now we should polish things up." Not making drastic redesigns (skill system), when basicly a big part of the game is finished.

You can develop your games for 10 more years, but face it, it won't be perfect. Codexers will find something to cry about, AoD is no exception. And what will you say then? "We should have developed it even longer?"

Comparing it to Duke Nukem Forever might be a joke, there are a lot of differences between the two case. But there is one similarity. Bot devs (the original devs in the case of DNF of course) redesigned huge chunks of the game all the time, they tried to improve until perfection. Let's just hope AoD won't get a Forever tag.

 

[Xi]

Hopefully in-game state changes will be communicated to the player via some type of identifiable dialogue. Otherwise, the differences will seem superfluous, even if they are real. Probably would be a good idea to have specialized text that is a specific color (as an example) that is highlighted in dialogue/descriptions of each event. Again, if you don't most players won't notice the difference. If you do, people will be reminded of how their choices impact game events.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I won't pre order it, because I don't feel comfortable giving money to someone, who just can't finish a game...

For the record, I'm not asking you to pre-order it, but let me comment on this statement.

We're committed to quality. It sounds like a generic statement, but we are. We're making a very complex game (even if you don't like the direction we took). We started without any real skills and had to learn the skills and develop them as we went. We did work for years, which speaks of dedication and passion, not of the inability to finish the game. We released the combat demo, the full demo, and are ready to release another chunk of the content, about 2/3 of the game combined. How much more proof do you need?

... and they don't even know when will they finish it, because they always find something to change.

Not something to change. When we released the last year's demo, we got a lot of feedback. We could have ignored it to release the game faster, but we took time to process it and improve the game. Is it a bad thing now?

To be honest, I wouldn't believe them even if they said a date. I believe it when i see it. I'm not a dev, but I think there should be a part when you say to yourself: "OK, this is what we want to release, now we should polish things up." Not making drastic redesigns (skill system), when basicly a big part of the game is finished.

Do you not understand that changing 1-100 to 1-10 is merely a question of scale? We didn't go with a class-based system or level-based, which would have been a radical change. We simply changed the scale. Instead of increasing your skill from 40 to 50 one point at a time, which would cost you X points per skill point, you buy 10 points at a time, basically, at a similar rate.

It's a minor change that has a strong effect - it reduces meta-gaming and gives you a better idea of your skills' value.

You can develop your games for 10 more years, but face it, it won't be perfect. Codexers will find something to cry about, AoD is no exception. And what will you say then? "We should have developed it even longer?"

We aren't trying to make it perfect. We're trying to make it a good game. At any rate, Teron's done. Maadoran's being tested now (i.e. almost done, no content changes at this point). Do you have reasons to believe that the last third of the game will never be released or take forever?

 

[CappenVarra]

Just give me Maadoran already, I have character concepts to try out

 

[cherry blossom]

They paid for a quality game which we intend to deliver. We gave them the combat demo, the 'full' demo, which was updated 3 times to reflect the criticism and suggestions (took us more than 6 months to do that), and now they will get an extended demo, giving them 60% of the game and assuring them that they are getting exactly what they paid for.

I think that all in all, we're treating our customers with a lot more respect than most companies.

That's not the point. The release date matters. Your "does it matter?" is an inappropriately glib dismissal.

The first question was 'how long until it beats Duke Nukem', which sets the tone of the conversation.

So it has finally come to pass that Vault Dweller have adopted "the tone" argument after all those years of giving that exact same attitude to everybody else. Is that what it does to a person, developing a game for so long?

Anyway, can we get an option to adjust camera FOV please?

 

[Vault Dweller]

So it has finally come to pass that Vault Dweller have adopted "the tone" argument after all those years of giving that exact same attitude to everybody else. Is that what it does to a person, developing a game for so long?

Not sure what exactly you're referring to. I don't recall EVER complaining either about games being delayed or about developers not taking silly questions seriously.

Anyway, can we get an option to adjust camera FOV please?

The camera controls haven't changed since the last demo. I doubt that we'll have time to touch them.

 

[SuicideBunny]

The first question was 'how long until it beats Duke Nukem', which sets the tone of the conversation.

if you can't take a duke nukem forever joke after what, some 7+ years of development, maybe it's time you took a break.

The second comment was 'why bother playing an incomplete game?'.

no, the second comment was that there isn't much point in playing the new demo if release is somewhat imminent since the progress made in it will be for nothing.

I don't think that SuicideBunny is a paying customer or someone interested in the game. I could be wrong, but I think he belongs to the 'other' camp. First search result gave me this: 'pretty sure if aod ever hits the market, nobody will give a fuck anymore'.

how is that relevant?

 

[Vault Dweller]

The first question was 'how long until it beats Duke Nukem', which sets the tone of the conversation.

if you can't take a duke nukem forever joke after what, some 7+ years of development, maybe it's time you took a break.

Not offended at all. The joke merely indicates that the discussion isn't serious.

The second comment was 'why bother playing an incomplete game?'.

no, the second comment was that there isn't much point in playing the new demo if release is somewhat imminent since the progress made in it will be for nothing.

If you don't see a point in playing an incomplete game, then don't play it. I mean, what else can I say here? You're definitely entitled to your preferences.

I don't think that SuicideBunny is a paying customer or someone interested in the game. I could be wrong, but I think he belongs to the 'other' camp. First search result gave me this: 'pretty sure if aod ever hits the market, nobody will give a fuck anymore'.

how is that relevant?

I assumed that you belong to the category of people who aren't interested in the game, but like to complain about it (like Severian Silk who made a post above yours). My apologies if I was mistaken. I probably mixed you up with someone else.

 

[cherry blossom]

The camera controls haven't changed since the last demo. I doubt that we'll have time to touch them.

It's just FOV. Should be a simple parameter in the engine. Just let us change it via a setting in the config file.

 

[Ninjerk]

They paid for a quality game which we intend to deliver. We gave them the combat demo, the 'full' demo, which was updated 3 times to reflect the criticism and suggestions (took us more than 6 months to do that), and now they will get an extended demo, giving them 60% of the game and assuring them that they are getting exactly what they paid for.

I think that all in all, we're treating our customers with a lot more respect than most companies.

That's not the point. The release date matters. Your "does it matter?" is an inappropriately glib dismissal.

I pre-ordered (for more than asking price too), but don't care when it's released as long as it's not before it's ready.

Most decent Codexers think (rightfully so), that it is better to delay a game, than releasing it half backed. And obviously I agree with them. The W2, PE, D:OS devs should take their time and polish up their game. But I think there is a point when the delay matters. I will buy the game when it is released, beause I'm loving what I'm seeing, but I won't pre order it, because I don't feel comfortable giving money to someone, who just can't finish a game, and they don't even know when will they finish it, because they always find something to change. To be honest, I wouldn't believe them even if they said a date. I believe it when i see it. I'm not a dev, but I think there should be a point when you say to yourself: "OK, this is what we want to release, now we should polish things up." Not making drastic redesigns (skill system), when basicly a big part of the game is finished.

You can develop your games for 10 more years, but face it, it won't be perfect. Codexers will find something to cry about, AoD is no exception. And what will you say then? "We should have developed it even longer?"

Comparing it to Duke Nukem Forever might be a joke, there are a lot of differences between the two case. But there is one similarity. Bot devs (the original devs in the case of DNF of course) redesigned huge chunks of the game all the time, they tried to improve until perfection. Let's just hope AoD won't get a Forever tag.

How many games did Blizzard delay until perfection when they were still a good company?

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Does it matter?

I think that all in all, we're treating our customers with a lot more respect than most companies.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Treat with respect in my book - present, explain, and discuss design elements, illustrate with screens and videos, release demos showing the game, deliver what was promised. Not be fake nice and super fucking friendly.

 

[Goral]

J_C
Show me a better cRPG than Teron demo (cRPG that was released after 2005) because as far as I'm concerned I didn't like any cRPG after Bloodlines came out. Teron demo alone is worth 25$ and with Maadoran it's extremely cheap (and in Poland most people earn about 300-500$ per month, assuming they have a job which currently isn't that easy with over 12% unemployment rate). But you will get even more than that later even though they could easily ask 10$ for Teron, 15$ for Maadoran and 10$ for the rest of the game (like Blizzard for Starcraft).

Lorica and Fireblade
My thoughts exactly. I don't get the whiners. So far VD has not only shown but GIVEN AWAY much more than Fargo or Sawyer but there is no such whining about their products (not from J_C at least).

 

[Korron]

I really am looking forward to the final release of this game, and I actually feel like a final release is on the horizon based on the series of recent updates. I don't know if graphic fidelity is a huge concern for an indie game, but it really is looking better than I ever anticipated even if it looks a bit outdated. I just wanted to say that I, as a longtime forum stalker, am looking forward to playing and am convinced I will be doing so in the near future. Hopefully the naysayers don't get under your skin too much.

 

[Mantic]

Afraid that people might confuse Wasteland 2 with this game because of its title, Brian Fargo had those guys change the name of their game. Startling resemblance indeed.

You are a little bitch. That game violated the trademarked name of Fargo's game, he had every right to demand it be changed.

 

[J_C]

We're making a very complex game (even if you don't like the direction we took).

Just for the record, I never said that I don't like the direction the game is taking. I'm loving what I'm seeing.

We aren't trying to make it perfect. We're trying to make it a good game. At any rate, Teron's done. Maadoran's being tested now (i.e. almost done, no content changes at this point). Do you have reasons to believe that the last third of the game will never be released or take forever?

I was exagerating when I said that it will take forever obviously. But I can easily imagine that you delay it for a whole year, if you figure out some changes.

release another chunk of the content, about 2/3 of the game combined. How much more proof do you need?

The full game? I've seen 90% finished games flushed down the toilet. Now I don't think that will be the case with AoD, since you don't have a meddling publisher, but I can see more delays.

And to be clear, I'm bitching about all of this because I want tha game badly. But all I see is delays for years now.

So far VD has not only shown but GIVEN AWAY much more than Fargo or Sawyer but there is no such whining about their products (not from J_C at least).

Thank you Captain obvious, but he is developing the game for 7 years, of course he has more to show. But there is a possibility that Wasteland 2 will be released sooner than AoD.

 

[Mantic]

We're making a very complex game (even if you don't like the direction we took).

Just for the record, I never said that I don't like the direction the game is taking. I'm loving what I'm seeing.

We aren't trying to make it perfect. We're trying to make it a good game. At any rate, Teron's done. Maadoran's being tested now (i.e. almost done, no content changes at this point). Do you have reasons to believe that the last third of the game will never be released or take forever?

I was exagerating when I said that it will take forever obviously. But I can easily imagine that you delay it for a whole year, if you figure out some changes.

release another chunk of the content, about 2/3 of the game combined. How much more proof do you need?

The full game? I've seen 90% finished games flushed down the toilet. Now I don't think that will be the case with AoD, since you don't have a meddling publisher, but I can see more delays.

And to be clear, I'm bitching about all of this because I want tha game badly. But all I see is delays for years now.

So far VD has not only shown but GIVEN AWAY much more than Fargo or Sawyer but there is no such whining about their products (not from J_C at least).

Thank you Captain obvious, but he is developing the game for 7 years, of course he has more to show. But there is a possibility that Wasteland 2 will be released sooner than AoD.

And VD has already explained (countless times) why this is. InXile and Obsidian are professional full-time studios with dozens of paid employees, who have made games for publishers. AoD has been developed by a few guys working day jobs, doing it in their spare time, who started out with virtually no experience making games and only the passion to make a good RPG. The sheer fact that AoD is still around and set to come out this year is a testament to their passions, do you think "just doing it for money, cause it's a job" people at Obsidian would of had the willpower and passion to make an RPG to make a full-scale RPG in their spare time, while working full-time jobs? Iron Tower has managed to put out a DEMO which has more C&C and roleplaying in it than any game your beloved Obsidian has ever made, who have been mighty busy the last 10 years making terrible Xbawks games. The full game will most definetely have more C&C/roleplaying/skill checks than every Obsidian game put together

 

[Volrath]

And VD has already explained (countless times) why this is. InXile and Obsidian are professional full-time studios with dozens of paid employees, who have made games for publishers. AoD has been developed by a few guys working day jobs, doing it in their spare time, who started out with virtually no experience making games and only the passion to make a good RPG. The sheer fact that AoD is still around and set to come out this year is a testament to their passions, do you think "just doing it for money, cause it's a job" people at Obsidian would of had the willpower and passion to make an RPG to make a full-scale RPG in their spare time, while working full-time jobs? Iron Tower has managed to put out a DEMO which has more C&C and roleplaying in it than any game your beloved Obsidian has ever made, who have been mighty busy the last 10 years making terrible Xbawks games. The full game will most definetely have more C&C/roleplaying/skill checks than every Obsidian game put together

Sucking VD's cock isn't going to get you the game any sooner.

 

[cherry blossom]

Afraid that people might confuse Wasteland 2 with this game because of its title, Brian Fargo had those guys change the name of their game. Startling resemblance indeed.

You are a little bitch. That game violated the trademarked name of Fargo's game, he had every right to demand it be changed.

LOL Not really. Nice butthurt though; it should make for an interesting subject at dinner tables.

 

[shihonage]

LOL Not really. Nice butthurt though; it should make for an interesting subject at dinner tables.

Linking to your own post as reference... were you counting on people being too lazy to click?

Do you know about "Asylum Films"? These buttheads film horrible movies with the budget of 50 dollars, then they give the names that sound similar to the big-time blockbusters coming out. "Transformers" becomes "Transmorphers". "The Day The Earth Stopped". The list goes on.

This makes them money. Confused parents and people with poor spelling (god knows that's 75% of America) fall for this.

Now imagine how much more money they would make if they could just use the same words as the IP. The rental store would be flooded with a bunch of movies all named "Transformers", perhaps with varying subtitles, but that's enough to confuse the crap out of everyone.

When a major IP comes out, chances are their name IS a word from the English language. Wasteland is a very typical example. And it's in their best interest to file a trademark and protect their name against predators trying to steal from them, whether intentionally or not.

 

[J_C]

We're making a very complex game (even if you don't like the direction we took).

Just for the record, I never said that I don't like the direction the game is taking. I'm loving what I'm seeing.

We aren't trying to make it perfect. We're trying to make it a good game. At any rate, Teron's done. Maadoran's being tested now (i.e. almost done, no content changes at this point). Do you have reasons to believe that the last third of the game will never be released or take forever?

I was exagerating when I said that it will take forever obviously. But I can easily imagine that you delay it for a whole year, if you figure out some changes.

release another chunk of the content, about 2/3 of the game combined. How much more proof do you need?

The full game? I've seen 90% finished games flushed down the toilet. Now I don't think that will be the case with AoD, since you don't have a meddling publisher, but I can see more delays.

And to be clear, I'm bitching about all of this because I want tha game badly. But all I see is delays for years now.

So far VD has not only shown but GIVEN AWAY much more than Fargo or Sawyer but there is no such whining about their products (not from J_C at least).

Thank you Captain obvious, but he is developing the game for 7 years, of course he has more to show. But there is a possibility that Wasteland 2 will be released sooner than AoD.

And VD has already explained (countless times) why this is. InXile and Obsidian are professional full-time studios with dozens of paid employees, who have made games for publishers. AoD has been developed by a few guys working day jobs, doing it in their spare time, who started out with virtually no experience making games and only the passion to make a good RPG. The sheer fact that AoD is still around and set to come out this year is a testament to their passions, do you think "just doing it for money, cause it's a job" people at Obsidian would of had the willpower and passion to make an RPG to make a full-scale RPG in their spare time, while working full-time jobs? Iron Tower has managed to put out a DEMO which has more C&C and roleplaying in it than any game your beloved Obsidian has ever made, who have been mighty busy the last 10 years making terrible Xbawks games. The full game will most definetely have more C&C/roleplaying/skill checks than every Obsidian game put together

I agree for the most part. But stop saying "C&C here, C&C there" all the time, you won't get too much points from me for lots of C&C. I don't hold it as one of the most important feature of RPGs. I'm not saying that it is a bad thing, but good story, characters and mechanics are more important to me.

 

[bat_boro]

So is the game currently on Steam (or will it be in the future)
I'm asking because I've never pre-ordered or bought anything digitally and it seems like Steam would be the way to go.
Also, will there be a boxed edition? I remember there were plans for this. And if there is, any chance it would be sold here in Bulgaria? Or is digital download my only option?

 

[Haba]

Chances for a box are slim, unless VD has lost it during the past few months.

For reference, they only have 900 preorders so far. Boxed copies would make little sense.