Alaloth: Champions of the Four Kingdoms - isometric action RPG with dynamic overworld

[Tyranicon]

After this, there will be only one unreleased* game with Avellone's involvement - Burden&Command
*of those games that were anounced, pre-cancelation

What was Avellone's involvement with this game?

This wasn't on my radar at all but if Avellone contributed I will consider playing it.

 

[SixDead]

After this, there will be only one unreleased* game with Avellone's involvement - Burden&Command
*of those games that were anounced, pre-cancelation

What was Avellone's involvement with this game?

This wasn't on my radar at all but if Avellone contributed I will consider playing it.

IIRC he just consulted them and wrote the world. Devs were wise enough and didn't renounce from his work

 

[Abu Antar]

What is the general consensus on this?

 

[Lyre Mors]

Lhynn have you been playing this? Curious about your initial impressions if you have been and have a chance.

 

[Lhynn]

Yeah, been playing it heavily over the weekend. Its a fun game, but not for everybody.

Lets start with the combat
The melee combat is meaty and challenging, but its made mostly irrelevant by cooldown based ranged abilities, so instead of mastering the ins and outs of dodging, parrying, blocking and positioning you spend your time running away and nuking entire areas, because staying in melee is suicide (Enemies react too fast, they hit hard, and your healing is very limited, so you are basically encouraged to hit and run), and using skills makes it all faster. Despite this the game still can present a decent challenge, with some very nasty enemies around.

The main issue then becomes companions, they have a ton of hp, great defense, and can be brought back up if they go down, they make the limited healing mechanics irrelevant because they are, for all intents and purposes, immortal. The game would be a lot better without them, and as a rule I never use them under any circumstances.

The story
Dont know, dont care, find crystals, fight things, whatever.

The quests
Dont care, just skip forward and follow the quest marker. The text is too short to say anything of weight anyway, so may as well skip it. Most of the quests give fuck all, and you cant really say no to them. You kind of take them all, then complete them as you go. Some have good rewards, but I cant tell which, so just take all of them. Feels like a complete afterthought, wish there were less quests, longer, more involved, and with better rewards.

The world
Its beautiful, both the big map and the locations, its a joy to explore dungeons and cities. A lot of work has been put into them.

The character system
Its alright I suppose.

Overall, if you enjoy combat and exploration, its a great game. And I am seeing theres a higher difficulty available once you beat the game, so I am going for it.
If you have nothing really good to play, its a great time killer, combat is always enjoyable because of how meaty and impactful it is, but you wont find much else to draw you in. The areas look good, the enemies are varied, and you have many ways to tackle them.

The price is fair for what you get, and I am looking forward to these peoples next game. Id like to see this, but with a lot more depth and options to interact with the world. I want to be able to play a bandit, I want to be able to get into wars with other houses, or get involved in wars with other kingdoms, Id like it if fights could break out anywhere and not just in dungeons, etc, etc, etc.

Theres a lot of potential to add and improve on the formula.

 

[Harthwain]

The melee combat is meaty and challenging, but its made mostly irrelevant by cooldown based ranged abilities, so instead of mastering the ins and outs of dodging, parrying, blocking and positioning you spend your time running away and nuking entire areas, because staying in melee is suicide (Enemies react too fast, they hit hard, and your healing is very limited, so you are basically encouraged to hit and run), and using skills makes it all faster.

Melee isn't suicide. You simply have to learn how to deal with enemies. I am mostly using a two-handed weapon and dodging (you can also utilize reach and hit enemies as they approach), but using a one-handed weapon with a shield is also a good option (although you should find a shield that blocks 100% physical damage first). Then there is parrying, as you said, which has its own advantages (it's really good versus very reactive shield users) and disadvantages (a misscalculated parry means eating a hit).

I started with priest powers (healing ones) and the first spell is extremely powerful, because you get 3 uses per location and you can even use it to heal up to full, meaning you don't have to return to heal up or use limited potions (which is important early on in the game). And then there is a second skill who also heals an area and has 2 uses.

The main issue then becomes companions, they have a ton of hp, great defense, and can be brought back up if they go down, they make the limited healing mechanics irrelevant because they are, for all intents and purposes, immortal. The game would be a lot better without them, and as a rule I never use them under any circumstances.

I only got a single companion (a Saracen-like one) and he is a distraction for enemies at best. You can also only pick up downed allies up to 3 times (no idea if each or total).

The quests
Dont care, just skip forward and follow the quest marker. The text is too short to say anything of weight anyway, so may as well skip it. Most of the quests give fuck all, and you cant really say no to them. You kind of take them all, then complete them as you go. Some have good rewards, but I cant tell which, so just take all of them. Feels like a complete afterthought, wish there were less quests, longer, more involved, and with better rewards.

Sometimes clues to the quest are hidden in the dialogue that you can't recall, so completely skipping the quest dialogue is not a good idea. Other times hints are very vague. I once got an information that somewhere in Karak-hohn is a guy I am looking for, but Karak-hohn means the entirety of the Kingdom of the Dwarves, meaning I had to go into each location by day and by night, hoping I will find him.

I agree on not knowing the quest rewards as an annoyance. I have yet to find a quest reward that gives an interesting two-handed sword (I only found a single two-handed axe and a ton of shield and one-handed blades).

The world
Its beautiful, both the big map and the locations, its a joy to explore dungeons and cities. A lot of work has been put into them.

Indeed. The overworld map is amazing. It is huge and it's great to simply look at. I also like how the world is unique yet has a lot of tolkien-esque feel to it (especially after watching the intro for Humans and Elves). It also has its own history, which help make it feel like an actual world. All in all I am very positively surprised by how well the game world resonates with me.

That said, locations are small, so don't expect much beyond somewhat corridor-like fights until you reach the end boss. Still, I do like how unique locations are and they can look very good visually so you don't feel like you repeat fights at the same locations over and over (except the overland map fights when you get ambushed on the road).

All in all I think this is my GOTY. I played it all weekend and it was hard to put down, despite game having its flaws. Some were already mentioned by Lhynn, so I will point out others:

- It's very easy to make money, because loot is abundant and even green items cost a lot.

- Invincibility frames from dodging make dodging simply too good not to use in combat, considering how cheap (stamina-wise) it is to spam dodge.

- Getting all crystals makes other Champions to target you. You kill them and their souls go to the nearest shrine and they try to kill you again. They aren't that hard to defeat, but it is annoying to go through this over and over and they ressurect fairly quickly, because it only takes them 3 days to get up, so for this reason I am considering doing a solo playthrough next time.

- Sometimes you might not know where to go in order to complete a quest. "Find the turtle" or "boot are somewhere at sea" is really crappy hint. In the first case I simply had to go to the same location at night and the turtle was there. In the latter I had to go to a location with access to water that was pretty far away from the location where I got my quest.

 

[toro]

What is the general consensus on this?

It's pure gold.

 

[Lhynn]

Melee isn't suicide. You simply have to learn how to deal with enemies.

Melee is suicide until you learn their patterns, their animations, learn the timing and dodge, or you can just nuke them.

I started with priest powers (healing ones) and the first spell is extremely powerful

Its alright. Best healing even if you have no investment in wisdom.
The best skills in the game are the str based shot, it hits like a truck at a distance and recharges fast, the second best skill is found in the arcane way, the clone teleport skill, it lets you hit someone without having to worry about defense.

I only got a single companion (a Saracen-like one) and he is a distraction for enemies at best.

A distraction is all you need, totally trivializes the game.

It's very easy to make money, because loot is abundant and even green items cost a lot.

The counter to this is that all money is good for is upgrading your keep and little else.
To add to this, the keep is a very underdeveloped mechanic.

Getting all crystals makes other Champions to target you. You kill them and their souls go to the nearest shrine and they try to kill you again. They aren't that hard to defeat, but it is annoying to go through this over and over and they ressurect fairly quickly, because it only takes them 3 days to get up, so for this reason I am considering doing a solo playthrough next time.

Agree, the champions are another underveloped mechanic, they just drop a shitty weapon the first time you beat them, then just gold, though it is a fair amount of gold.

Sometimes clues to the quest are hidden in the dialogue that you can't recall

Doesnt matter, just follow the stupid marker, move on to another quest. You can check the rewards on the quest log, but I have 3 pages of quests, and theres no point in focusing on one, just do whatever while you play, literally 0 point in reading them.

I have yet to find a quest reward that gives an interesting two-handed sword

Currently using a legendary sword with 190 physical damage, critting for 700 on the regular. That said, it doesnt see much use, I tend to just use my arrow skill, as a 5 str 5 con melee.

 

[jungl]

This game throws around lot of big names BALDURS GATE DARK SOULS RPG GOOD EVIL but if you play it however its really just a janky action game. It made me instantly nostalgic of ps1 action games like Xena warrior princess, sub zero mythologies and ninja shadow warrior. Honestly have a more fun time booting those up in a emulator then playing Alaloth.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I agree that the quests are hollow. The dialogue is NES calibur in that you click through small expositions until it is over. At the end you can accept or refuse, though refusal is pointless.

Quests will sometimes mention a place by name, but there are so many areas spread around you will have a difficult time finding it deliberately. Just accept everything and enter a town when it has a marker showing a quest there has updated. There is a day/night cycle, but its honestly just an annoyance.

Towns and areas are both beautiful and sterile. Every town is functionally a reskin of any other location. It takes away from what should otherwise be really nice exploration. That areas are 100% revealed doesn't help either. The plot is generic, uninteresting, and the exposition of NPCs is no different. There are periodic scattered in-game cut scenes with more exposition in several areas, but I don't know and don't care. They aren't skippable either, but they're usually short.

Character building is decent. Many of the spells and abilities are satisfying if nothing to write home about. They're very helpful without being OP. The most OP one I'd say is the decoy summon. It's invaluable for any build. It do like how abilities scale based of of stats rather than character level, and stats and traits are overall worthwhile. I do not like how spell tiers require X uses to unlock, as it makes respec tedious.

Items have properties with mechanical depth, but have a generic feel. Their nuances mught be lost in players learning the system. There are lots of rares and uniques but they typically feel like slightly better versions of everything else. Still, items make a difference in aggregate and there are a few choice legendary items that really feel special and potent. Crafting exists. It is useful, but is not necessary after you have a few levels. It's also hurt by only being able to craft outside combat zone lobbies. Encumbrance is a big deal in this game, so hauling all your many crafting stuff with you to dungeons is bad design.

Companion NPCs are very powerful D2 mercs despite not being able to give them gear. There are 12 total and 4 can be recruited at a time. You can only have two join you in "fighting areas". They can be raised twice if fallen in each area which assures they will live just about everywhere. The only time mine ever died was against an uber thunder dragon boss.

The fun to be had in this game is combat. It can be really good at its core. Basically souls combat. Light and heavy attack. Stamina, dodging, block, parry, rispote, block breaking and poise breaking. You can regain some lost HP by damaging an enemy right after they strike you. Fighting groups in melee larger than 3 is a bad idea. You need to always kill the mage first then the archers. Enemy attacks are not as well telegraphed or as routine as in souls games, so parrying takes skill and experience. The top down perspective doesn't make that easier. Assessing hit boxes can be tough, particularly against giant monsters. Despite that, once you get the hang of it, it can be rally satisfying. It's enough to overcome the deficiencies. Combat always poses a risk even when you're maxed out and geared up. You can get powerful, but are never a god.

I am 11 hours in, am max level, have about 3/4 of the areas completed, and have decent gear. I just respeced to try some different stuff, so I have to use my abilities to advance them back up to tier 5 (max). Once I do I will move to the final areas and boss. I suspect that after another 10 hours, I will have experienced everything this game gas to offer. There is more to be said, but I will probably save it for a proper review.

 

[Harthwain]

Melee is suicide until you learn their patterns, their animations, learn the timing and dodge, or you can just nuke them.

"The game is hard until you learn how to play it" is a weird argument. By the way, you don't have to learn much when it comes to dodging. Even if you dodge into an attack you have invunerability frames. That's what makes dodge so powerful.

A distraction is all you need, totally trivializes the game.

Maybe with the ranged skills you mentioned. In my case the guy either get downed (if enemies are tougher) or gets damaged to some degree until I can help him after killing enemies that came after me. There are other things that trivialize the game in my experience, a companion is not one of them.

The counter to this is that all money is good for is upgrading your keep and little else.
To add to this, the keep is a very underdeveloped mechanic.

You can buy some special armour and weapons with money early on. But, yeah, it would've been a lot better had the economy been tight for longer.

Agree, the champions are another underveloped mechanic, they just drop a shitty weapon the first time you beat them, then just gold, though it is a fair amount of gold.

I don't consider ~700 gold to be "a fair amount of gold". I earn more by simply betting in a game of dice (which is quite nice to play, by the way).

Doesnt matter, just follow the stupid marker, move on to another quest.

That's the point - there isn't always the marker to follow.

Currently using a legendary sword with 190 physical damage, critting for 700 on the regular.

You lucky bastard... All I get are shields or one-handed swords. Maybe in another country it is different.

Quests will sometimes mention a place by name, but there are so many areas spread around you will have a difficult time finding it deliberately.

You can filter the map to show you locations (for example, you could get a list of all location within a specific Kingdom). It is pretty in-depth. Same goes for the quest log.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Quests will sometimes mention a place by name, but there are so many areas spread around you will have a difficult time finding it deliberately.

You can filter the map to show you locations (for example, you could get a list of all location within a specific Kingdom). It is pretty in-depth. Same goes for the quest log.

It does have that, but only if you have spoken to the appropriate NPC to update your journal.

 

[Fargus]

This game throws around lot of big names BALDURS GATE DARK SOULS RPG GOOD EVIL but if you play it however its really just a janky action game. It made me instantly nostalgic of ps1 action games like Xena warrior princess, sub zero mythologies and ninja shadow warrior. Honestly have a more fun time booting those up in a emulator then playing Alaloth.

Aside from being souls\arpg slop, the trailer has that generic-boring visual aesthetics of Pillars.

And the name Alaloth... Must be the homeland of this dude https://pillarsofeternity.fandom.com/wiki/Aloth_Corfiser

 

[Lhynn]

"The game is hard until you learn how to play it" is a weird argument.

The argument is that you dont need to learn it.

I will have experienced everything this game gas to offer

I see myself replaying this game a lot, its an amazing time killer, and it does bring me back to simpler times. The combat is a joy, and just exploring mindlessly can be fun.

Hopefully the higher difficulty does something to address the issues I have with the game.

The most OP one I'd say is the decoy summon.

Its great, as it allows you to pump out a considerable amount of damage in a short time. But some monsters counter it. Notably harpies will insta attack your real character after you teleport behind them, feels like it isnt intended, merely a bit of a bug with the change of target being slow.

 

[DY050503]

It has pretty decent art style for graphics and soundtracks for an isometric game. Almost every place looks different to some degree at least. Also the game has almost over-rich lore as there are many places/monsters/factions in this game and there is a background for literally every one of them. However the poor implementation of these lore: lack of interactions and details makes the world of this game immersive enough but not suitable for role playing. The combat system feels unbalanced in comparison. One bonus point is the loading time is pretty fast on an hdd, not like other modern Unity Engine crpg titles. Perhaps because it is not the same type of crpg, as there is almost no choices in this game, only one "normal" option for the player to talk with npc.

 

[Lyre Mors]

So I feel like I'm kind of getting mixed reports on longevity here. It seems like the game world is massive and there's a ton to explore, but we've got Mr. Magniloquent over here maxing out character progression at 11 hours? What?

Also, are dungeons interesting, or just corridors? That's another thing that seems to be mixed.

 

[Harthwain]

So I feel like I'm kind of getting mixed reports on longevity here. It seems like the game world is massive and there's a ton to explore, but we've got @Mr. Magniloquent over here maxing out character progression at 11 hours? What?

I guess that depends on how hard you hit the locations/dungeons. Because you get level ups after completing them. I am doing quests and exploring the world (which means going between locations), so I am probably halfway there (3 combat talents out of 6) at 12 hours. I didn't really touch the main quest, by the way (just got 4 shards from looting two locations and killing other champions).

Also, are dungeons interesting, or just corridors? That's another thing that seems to be mixed.

Dungeons are linear. Sometimes there are branching paths, but overall they are very simplistic in design (I guess you could call them corridors). What is interesting about them is their aesthetic (meaning they are varied enough so they don't feel like repeats of the same map). My advice is to do the whole location, because you can get interesting rewards by rescuing an NPC or obtaining an item you wouldn't get if you beelined straight for the boss (and the maps aren't that big to begin with).

 

[itsme]

There are several reviews on steam which cover the game in detail. This one is spot on.

https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198026069206/recommended/919360/








GrogGeneral » Reviews » Alaloth - Champions of The Four Kingdoms

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If this were any more helpful I wouldn't need a brain.

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3

Not Recommended
19.9 hrs last two weeks / 19.9 hrs on record
Posted: 26 Nov @ 3:06pm
The good and great things about this game:

- Design: Great looking maps inducing Old School RPG Nostalgia. The Map designers did a fantastic job overall with day and night versions of every town and city. Kingdoms and towns have distinct architecture. It gives a lot of LotR vibes in all the good ways.
- Map: A really big map with 4 distinct kingdoms (elves, humans, dwarves, orcs). There are a lot (a lot!) of locations (towns, cities, caves, dungeons, forest clearings, historical sites,...) to see and all the locations look great. There's enough content for more than one playthrough.
- Music: Major towns have different sound tracks and they're AAA-Level quality. Orchestra-heavy music that sounds just like Baldurs Gate 2 and the like: Drumps and trumpets in the orcish territory, lighter flute and string music in elven territory - the music really captures the distinct kingdoms well. Any game can learn from the musical quality in Alaloth.
- Character Creation: Race and alignment have some consequences for your playthrough.
- Item variety: There is a lot of item variety that promotos more than one playthrough: 5 types of armor (robes, light, medium, heavy, tank), a lot of different weapon types, magic, unique items for quest rewards, mounts, unique mounts etc.: This game has some chunky depth when it comes to item variety and map size, so it rewards exploring and questing in that regard.
- Fighting system: If you prefer action fighting systems instead of turn-based ones, Alaloth went and tried to implement a real-time fighting system with some success. The variety in equipment and skills allow for room for experimentation as well.

Now for the neutral thing you should know about:
- Level maximum: You can gain a maximum of 20 levels which you will get once you've visited maybe a third of the world's locations (or less). There is no purpose in visiting everything in one playthrough. This promotes going for more than one playthrough but people who want to do everything with one character will find out that it just doesn't make sense at some point. It's a design decision. It's very different from other games in this way.

Now for the bad things:
- The big TradeOff: The big map and many locations come at a price: There are lot of npc's but they're not voiced. It's a lot of text and the staging of the story is not very elaborate. Mostly, NPCs just stand around and do nothing. The npcs feel sterile, just standing around. Animated cutscenes are rather rare.
- Story: The story if very straight-forward: Collect four thingies, defeat the big bad. There are sub-stories for quests regarding factions and kingdoms, but they're only told in NPC dialogues. This game is a big example why "show-don't tell" is important. In Alaloth, it's all "tell,tell,tell". It's not an engaging way or exploring the world and story even at the best of times.
- Quests: Everything is just fetch quests. Deliver letters, defeat 50 goblins, defeat x skeletons, find a lantern etc. And since they're all told in unvoiced npc text dialogues, the quests feel absolutely mind-numbing to get into and go through. They're mostly just uninteresting save for some rare exceptions.
- Writing: You get hammered and clubbered with fantasy-lingo. Names of gods, npcs you never met (who all have similar names) etc. - the writing is easily losing you because the dialogue explains no context but throws fantasy words at you constantly while expecting that you are fully versed in all names and terms of this fantasy setting. Combine that with the lackluster presentation and it's just very hard to get into the story of the game.
- Leveling: You only level by doing the big dungeons ("Fighting arenas") and only for doing them the first time. You can repeat dungeons for item drops though. When you level up, you either get to put a point into stats, proficiencies (for armor and weapons mostly), and/or skills. The issue: Most of the skills and proficiencies are useless or uninteresting. E.g. you can't directly level up fire magic damage, only fire resistance. There are almost no proficiencies that make sense for mages or archers. Leveling if there is nothing useful for you to look forward to level up in is a bad experience.
- Many Skills are badly designed. There is a hard limit on summons and healings you are allowed to cast. you only get six abilities to cast/use in the entire game at max level - and then you have a lot of skills with limited uses only (heals 4x use, summons 3x use,..). That seems like a poor design choice.
- Enemy design: If you go ranged (mage/archer), all enemy encounters become trivial. Zero difficulty. Melee characters may experience a whole different difficulty with spongy enemies and bosses. Many players also noted that the final boss is ramped up in difficulty 10x to previous bosses and encounters - the final boss follows the idea of "just slap on 10k HP and make the boss instant teleport everywhere with stun-attacks and we're good to go!". That's a let down.
- Quest rewards: you can get unique weapons and armos as quest rewards: Chances are though, that it's not the equipment you skilled for. I reached max level without finding or getting a unique weapon/armor for the type my two different characters were skilling in. No reward choices
- Crafting: Crafting is meh. You can't craft some equipment at all and i found only one weapon in 20 hours where you can put a gem in (despite you finding gems a lot). Crafting doesn't make sense in that way.
- Pathing: You can do 1-2 dungeons and then you're inventory is full (due to item weight). Finding the relevant vendors and stashing the crafting loot you want to keep takes more than than doing the actual dungeon. The pathways to vendors and your stash are too long. And if you have to go to vendors and your stash so frequently, this will absolutely kill your fun. Imagine having to go to three different vendors + your stash every other dungeon which takes up as much time as the dungeon itself. It's so tedious.

There are some really good things about this game, but overall, the gameplay loop is so dissatisfying: The limited leveling, the choice between so many bad skills and proficiency options that you don't wanna put your level points into anything at all, tedious pathing to sell items that you have to slog through constantly, the disengaged story-telling and boring quests, the weird to badly balanced fighting system.. man, a beautiful visual and acustic presentation are hiding a gameplay that quickly ceases to be fun. I wonder if the developers will be able to finetune the gameplay to a point where it's fun, but after a long time in Early access, i don't expect any more great changes.


Its a mediocre game at best. It pretends to be deep but in fact is shallow as a puddle.

 

[Lyre Mors]

That's a shame about the dungeons. Seems like an area this game could have excelled at given its gameplay focus. Tying level progression to completing locations still seems like an extremely questionable design decision too. I feel like they wanted to make a massive open-world action RPG, but didn't understand how to fit the RPG part in.

 

[Harthwain]

That's a shame about the dungeons. Seems like an area this game could have excelled at given its gameplay focus. Tying level progression to completing locations still seems like an extremely questionable design decision too. I feel like they wanted to make a massive open-world action RPG, but didn't understand how to fit the RPG part in.

The goal was to have combat be impactful. So the dungeons are short, but each mistake is punished, because you have a limited number of potions and abilities to use when you enter it. This game is more akin to Diablo/Sacred with Dark Souls combat set in a fantasy universe (and, as I said before, it really hits the Tolkien-esque vibes quite well, although it is not a full blown epic either, as there are some grey elements in the mix).

Having a vast world serves for spacing out different nations, as well as facilitating competition between champions (who each come from their respective nation). As a result the world is filled with locations and lore/history, but the way you can engage with it is limited to accepting a quest or reading a bunch of lines, so if you don't like the fluff or want to focus on action you can skip it and get straight to the meat of the game (which is combat).

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Abilities use stamina, but stamina regen is fast by necessity because ordinary attack, defense, and movement actions use stamina also. Healing and summoning abilities would break the difficulty curve of the game as implemented, so their bootstrap fix is to cap its use per dungeon.

This game has many such features that appear to be ad-hoc and not part of the original concept.

 

[Frank Capicoli]

9 hours in split between trying a melee two hander and the other save file as a mage. Honestly pretty boring. Not an awful game but very mid. Feels like half the character build choices are just a waste of space. Quests are largely going to be forgettable wallpapering for the combat areas. A very action focused game but then they'll have you spending a lot of time plodding around sterile cities for inventory management or quests.

 

[Alberto Belli]

snip

These are better lol https://store.steampowered.com/app/919360/Alaloth_Champions_of_The_Four_Kingdoms/#app_reviews_hash
Also, just popped on Meta https://www.metacritic.com/game/alaloth-champions-of-the-four-kingdoms/

 

[Alberto Belli]

After this, there will be only one unreleased* game with Avellone's involvement - Burden&Command
*of those games that were anounced, pre-cancelation

What was Avellone's involvement with this game?

This wasn't on my radar at all but if Avellone contributed I will consider playing it.

Chris wrote the timeline, the first draft of the world lore, companions and a few other things