Another Oblivion Thread

[rushthatspeaks]

oblivion

I'm not for console gaming nor am I for PC gaming. Either one is fine. I never claimed Oblivion was geared towards console gamers. I simply said I am fine with the simplicity of the UI. As far as this being a PC gaming only forum. Too bad poindexter, I invaded your precious space, deal with it. Feel free to attack me with your protractor and pencil kit if you want. Hey Balor? I never said I couldn't fix said problems on a PC if they did arise...I own a fine computer. I simply don't use it for gaming. Any retard can game on a computer, it doesn't make you special, sorry chief. Nor does gaming on a console only. I realize what I said was ignorant but that kid pissed me off. I don't think Oblivion is geared towards console users. I think you people are way too jaded to still be playing video games. Bethesda simplified the EXACT right aspects of Oblivion. I have news for you, you didn't need to be smart to play Morrowind, you only needed a complete lack of life to actually like wandering around aimlessly in a barren landscape wondering what to do next as you picked shrooms. Seems like they're removing that in Oblivion, looks good to me.

 

[Balor]

I have news for you, you didn't need to be smart to play Morrowind, you only needed a complete lack of life to actually like wandering around aimlessly in a barren landscape wondering what to do next as you picked shrooms.

Hmm, good point. But...

Seems like they're removing that in Oblivion, looks good to me.

Perhaps that was their intention. But for me (and pretty much anyone here) it sounds kinda fishy.
well, we'll see what it turn out like.
If it happend to be same shit in a new bun - well, there would always be mods.
I'm planning on making a TC myself.

 

[rushthatspeaks]

We'll see.

Yes, we'll see. I watched the 20 minute gameplay footage and still wasn't sure what to think at the end. I'm not a hardcore Elder Scrolls fan admittedly. You'd think it would have impressed me and yes the graphics did, the gameplay though we have yet to see. Gameplay is what a game is all about, graphics take a backseat. The only thing the 20 minute video showed me was that Oblivion will have good graphics and questionable NPC's despite the radiant AI. The NPC's despite being shiny and well pixelated don't move fluidly enough. It doesn't look like they used motion capture as far as the NPCs go, which would have brought the NPCs to life even more.

Also I'm sorry about coming across as an ignorant troll. I was just responding to what the person said about the UI in a way he, I assumed based on his post, would relate to. Vulgar, simple and rude. I didn't look to see this was a PC gaming forum only. I can't really see how that matters though in this case since Oblivion is coming out on multi-platforms. Again I'm not a supporter of either PC or Consoles. I just like a good game.

 

[Section8]

I must of course humbly apologize for presupposing the reasons while not being informed by the source. It must have been a Momentary Lapse of Reason. Suffering from Terminal Frost I'm sure.

Welcome my son, Welcome to the Machine...

...that is the Codex.

I don't see where the UI complaints are coming from. Morrowind's (as above) wasn't exactly anything special, and it's fucking awful at any resolution below 1024x768. The only issue I have with the Oblivion UI is the scale, which would be easily remedied in a PC version. Aside from that one complaint, it's pretty damned intuitive (with the exception of the limp necked potion bottle), and provides the bare necessities stat wise. Just because it's more effective and accesible doesn't mean it's "dumbed down."

 

[Tintin]

Just because it's more effective and accesible doesn't mean it's "dumbed down."

Anything that makes a game fun is dumbing down.

 

[Micmu]

IMO - depends on whether you think more scrolling - more effective. Scale is awful but even with smaller fonts, everything will still be scrollable. I found MW's customizable windowed UI excellent. Better than DF's UI. The only thing that was still painful was the magic menu. Oblivion's console UI? I don't find unnecessary scrolling through lists with redundant informations intiutive. When I pick up an item, I inspect it, then I know what it is and I don't need to see it's properties all the time in a huge spreadsheet.

Are you sure they'll fix the scale? Maybe they think the game is so immersive, everyone will get myopic sooner or later for playing it too much... :D

 

[rushthatspeaks]

Anything that makes a game fun is dumbing down.

Now THAT has to be a joke. What else is a game supposed to be? Frustrating? Confusing? Akward? Morrowind? Let me tell you again, Morrowind was easy. It was just boring. Sorry, adding the compass and instant travel to Oblivion doesn't dumb it down, it just plain makes the game less boring, period. Same with the stat sheet. Stat sheets are boring. They're just numerical representations of the characters skills. The less of them the better. If you can get the same results from actually playing your character, and feel your character become stronger as you play it, then who cares if there is no numerical sheet to back it up or lack of a superfluously complex one?

 

[Tintin]

Anything that makes a game fun is dumbing down.

Now THAT has to be a joke.

Correct

 

[Twinfalls]

Sorry, adding the compass and instant travel to Oblivion doesn't dumb it down, it just plain makes the game less boring, period. Same with the stat sheet. Stat sheets are boring. They're just numerical representations of the characters skills. The less of them the better. If you can get the same results from actually playing your character, and feel your character become stronger as you play it, then who cares if there is no numerical sheet to back it up or lack of a superfluously complex one?

It's that line of thinking which led Todd et al to remove so many of the skills which made Daggerfall a good crpg. They wanted to appeal to the likes of you. People who are only capable of thinking in dumb absolutes, like 'stat sheets are boring' and 'retard compass makes the game less boring, period'.

You are the problem with this world. Congratulations.

 

[Tintin]

You are the problem with this world. Congratulations.

I think terrorists, racists, sexists, rapists, thieves, criminals, corrupt politicians, murderers, suicide bombers, and smugglers (and etc etc) are more of a problem to this world than a guy who wants a compass in a video game.

 

[nakanja]

Stat sheets are boring. They're just numerical representations of the characters skills. The less of them the better. If you can get the same results from actually playing your character, and feel your character become stronger as you play it, then who cares if there is no numerical sheet to back it up or lack of a superfluously complex one?

What makes you feel your character become stronger as you play, isn't that a numerical stat that increases as the skill develops and changes the way your character responds?

 

[Twinfalls]

You are the problem with this world. Congratulations.

I think terrorists, racists, sexists, rapists, thieves, criminals, corrupt politicians, murderers, suicide bombers, and smugglers (and etc etc) are more of a problem to this world than a guy who wants a compass in a video game.

Nah.

I'd much rather be terrorised, villified, raped, robbed, blackmailed, disenfranchised, murdered, suicide-bombed and smuggled

....than see smart games get dumbed down.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

Sorry, adding the compass and instant travel to Oblivion doesn't dumb it down, it just plain makes the game less boring, period. Same with the stat sheet. Stat sheets are boring. They're just numerical representations of the characters skills. The less of them the better. If you can get the same results from actually playing your character, and feel your character become stronger as you play it, then who cares if there is no numerical sheet to back it up or lack of a superfluously complex one?

It's that line of thinking which led Todd et al to remove so many of the skills which made Daggerfall a good crpg. They wanted to appeal to the likes of you. People who are only capable of thinking in dumb absolutes, like 'stat sheets are boring' and 'retard compass makes the game less boring, period'.

You are the problem with this world. Congratulations.

The SKILLS made DF a good RPG. News to me. You are a fine example of self-delusion, Twinfalls...

 

[rushthatspeaks]

Priorities.

I don't even want the compass per se, I'm just not pissed that it is there. But yeah you're right I make rapists look like girl scouts. Then again how would you know the difference Twinfalls with your head so far up your ass? Hey, if you keep your head up your ass you won't be able to see the compass when you play Oblivion! There, I'm glad I could help you with the compass dilemna.

 

[rushthatspeaks]

What makes you feel your character become stronger as you play, isn't that a numerical stat that increases as the skill develops and changes the way your character responds?

Well yes but I'm talking about seeing an enemy fall with less strikes of your sword. This game looks like it has decent enough physics to give you the feel that you're actually striking something I assume when things like your jump skill increase you'll be able to jump/climb steeper slopes. I realize the addiction to complex stat sheets, it is one of the quintessential signs of a traditional single player RPG. I'm just saying that perhaps the gameplay itself conveys the feel of your character growing stronger by the characters actions and doesn't rely as much on a page with numbers.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Well yes but I'm talking about seeing an enemy fall with less strikes of your sword. This game looks like it has decent enough physics to give you the feel that you're actually striking something I assume when things like your jump skill increase you'll be able to jump/climb steeper slopes. I realize the addiction to complex stat sheets, it is one of the quintessential signs of a traditional single player RPG. I'm just saying that perhaps the gameplay itself conveys the feel of your character growing stronger by the characters actions and doesn't rely as much on a page with numbers.

Yup, that sounds pretty gay to me. You know the great thing about numbers? They're easy to look at and read. Which number is higher? 13 or 20? How long did it take you to figure that out? Pretty much instantly, right? Now, how long would it take you to notice that you're beating down a kobold better just by clicking and watching animations? Probably take several kobolds just to rule out random chances here and there. Even then, you have to take it somewhat on faith. Meanwhile, you can just look at numbers and instantly figure out that you're better at one thing than another and by exactly how much.

 

[match000]

Well yes but I'm talking about seeing an enemy fall with less strikes of your sword. This game looks like it has decent enough physics to give you the feel that you're actually striking something I assume when things like your jump skill increase you'll be able to jump/climb steeper slopes. I realize the addiction to complex stat sheets, it is one of the quintessential signs of a traditional single player RPG. I'm just saying that perhaps the gameplay itself conveys the feel of your character growing stronger by the characters actions and doesn't rely as much on a page with numbers.

Yup, that sounds pretty gay to me. You know the great thing about numbers? They're easy to look at and read. Which number is higher? 13 or 20? How long did it take you to figure that out? Pretty much instantly, right? Now, how long would it take you to notice that you're beating down a kobold better just by clicking and watching animations? Probably take several kobolds just to rule out random chances here and there. Even then, you have to take it somewhat on faith. Meanwhile, you can just look at numbers and instantly figure out that you're better at one thing than another and by exactly how much.

What's the big deal? Why can't we just have BOTH. I like stats as much as the next person, but I'd also like to see my stats translate to nice pretty animation effects.

For example, if my archer/ranger has a super-high marksman skill AND strength, I'd like to see him shoot an arrow that knocks the enemy flying 10 feet back like the enemy was hit with a canonball point-blank.

That'd be tight.

 

[Twinfalls]

Yeah that'd be Awesum. And then the enemy could, like, totally explode or something. Heh.

Yo Saint Dude, get with the program. Stats are boring, flying enemies is where its at.

 

[match000]

Yeah that'd be Awesum. And then the enemy could, like, totally explode or something. Heh.

Yo Saint Dude, get with the program. Stats are boring, flying enemies is where its at.

Hell yeah, glad to see someone sees my point. Yeah, get with the program Saint Dude.





JK I saw ur stupid sarcasm. There, thats MINE, its not very good but its late and I was studying for my midterm...

If we could alter the gravity and effects, I'd like to see someone make a Kung Fu mod similar to the Kung Fu mod for Max Payne 1 (Kung Fu 3.0). That'd be tight. You could do a "Neo" palm punch that knocks the enemy back 10 feet, then a Neo spin kick in bullet time...

 

[Pr()ZaC]

Balor, you had to invite people from the Bethesda forums...happy now?

 

[nakanja]

What's the big deal? Why can't we just have BOTH. I like stats as much as the next person, but I'd also like to see my stats translate to nice pretty animation effects.

For example, if my archer/ranger has a super-high marksman skill AND strength, I'd like to see him shoot an arrow that knocks the enemy flying 10 feet back like the enemy was hit with a canonball point-blank.

That'd be tight.

I don't remember saying that we *shouldn't* have both, but it just seemed to me that you were just saying "lets have less stat sheets", not "lets have stats correspond to animations". Its still going to rely on a page of numbers to determine how the character will do the things you mention, so I don't see the harm in letting you look at those numbers.

Balor, you had to invite people from the Bethesda forums...happy now?

Don't blame him for me at least. I let myself in.

 

[Mech]

You are the problem with this world. Congratulations.

I think terrorists, racists, sexists, rapists, thieves, criminals, corrupt politicians, murderers, suicide bombers, and smugglers (and etc etc) are more of a problem to this world than a guy who wants a compass in a video game.

Nah.

I'd much rather be terrorised, villified, raped, robbed, blackmailed, disenfranchised, murdered, suicide-bombed and smuggled

....than see smart games get dumbed down.

So what was your address again?

 

[Section8]

IMO - depends on whether you think more scrolling - more effective. Scale is awful but even with smaller fonts, everything will still be scrollable. I found MW's customizable windowed UI excellent. Better than DF's UI. The only thing that was still painful was the magic menu. Oblivion's console UI? I don't find unnecessary scrolling through lists with redundant informations intiutive. When I pick up an item, I inspect it, then I know what it is and I don't need to see it's properties all the time in a huge spreadsheet.

So the fact that in that screenshot, I can see 43 items that can't be identified without a tool tip, and 2 that can was lost on you? I didn't even go out of my way to find it. The only thing laudable about Morrowind's UI is the fact that you can move and scale most of its various components. It would be nice to think Oblivion's PC incarnation preserves this good idea, bur we'll have to wait and see. It wouldn't be the first time Bethesda ignored a positive feature of a previous title.

And yes, I'd say scrolling more effective than "tool-tipping," in fact, my mouse even has a component specifically for that purpose, but that's not really the point. Moving a cursor with an analogue stick is far more awkward than scrolling through a list, which would be the rationale behind the change. That is a good design decision.

Of course, another good decision is to pay enough attention to your ports so that they take advantage of as many platform specific features of the system you're porting to, but more importantly, overcome the weak points of the platform too.

Well yes but I'm talking about seeing an enemy fall with less strikes of your sword. This game looks like it has decent enough physics to give you the feel that you're actually striking something I assume when things like your jump skill increase you'll be able to jump/climb steeper slopes. I realize the addiction to complex stat sheets, it is one of the quintessential signs of a traditional single player RPG. I'm just saying that perhaps the gameplay itself conveys the feel of your character growing stronger by the characters actions and doesn't rely as much on a page with numbers.

While I wouldn't want to see visible stats done away with, this actually makes a whole lot of sense to me. When it comes to CRPGs like the ES games, there's a whole lot of numerical values that don't actually mean anything. If my jumping skill is 27, chances are, I'm going to get a better sense of how effective that is by actually jumping, and as it improves, I'm going to notice.

I also like the idea of visual cues. Although it's a completely superficial enhancement in Fable, a true CRPG could greatly benefit from a graphical appearance that reflects a characters stats. Being able to look at an enemy and make an accurate prediction of whether or not they're likely to kick your fucking head in is far better than saving, fighting them, finding out the hard way, and reloading. It's also a bit more interesting than simply scaling all encounters to meet the character.

 

[TheGreatGodPan]

You could have a skill that let's you sense how good they are at whatever. And stuff. They could call it "wussy sense", as in "My wussy sense is tingling! That dude would kick my ass! I'll go find someone smaller to beat on!".

 

[rushthatspeaks]

dumbing down

Yup, that sounds pretty gay to me. You know the great thing about numbers? They're easy to look at and read. Which number is higher? 13 or 20? How long did it take you to figure that out? Pretty much instantly, right? Now, how long would it take you to notice that you're beating down a kobold better just by clicking and watching animations? Probably take several kobolds just to rule out random chances here and there. Even then, you have to take it somewhat on faith. Meanwhile, you can just look at numbers and instantly figure out that you're better at one thing than another and by exactly how much.

That's irony for you. Some of you say you don't want the game dumbed down but projecting a characters skills, strengths etc through numbers rather than through the characters actions IS dumbing down. Doesn't matter if that's the way it's been done. It's getting old. I think some of you post in here just for the sake of arguing, with no real regards to the topic.