AoD: This game feels very on the rails. Am i playing it right?

[Ol' Willy]

People who dislike teleporting in AoD just like



Seriously, what's the fuck wrong with you, people? It's so convenient to teleport right to the healer after getting shanked in the Arena, from there it's a couple of steps to repair your gear at blacksmith and then another teleport back to arena. Quick, no bullshit, no extremely engaging walking, I simply can't ask for more. If you like walking just walk, don't teleport, okay?

It may come as a shock to some, but teleporting has its roots right in Fallout 2, and respectively, all Fallout engine games. Instead of engaging walk through screen transitions, you just walk to the nearest exist grid - or your car, yes - and from then you teleport to needed district through the city map. It's very useful in New Reno in both Fallout 2 and Fallout Nevada - especially the latter for the city is bigger and exit grids are more restrictive, and also if you play without the SFALL, i.e. with limited scrolling.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

It may come as a shock to some, but teleporting has its roots right in Fallout 2, and respectively, all Fallout engine games. Instead of engaging walk through screen transitions, you just walk to the nearest exist grid - or your car, yes - and from then you teleport to needed district through the city map. It's very useful in New Reno in both Fallout 2 and Fallout Nevada - especially the latter for the city is bigger and exit grids are more restrictive, and also if you play without the SFALL, i.e. with limited scrolling.

What a bad example. You could use mutants in Necropolis teleporting you to lieutenant in Mariposa base.

 

[Black Angel]

It may come as a shock to some, but teleporting has its roots right in Fallout 2, and respectively, all Fallout engine games. Instead of engaging walk through screen transitions, you just walk to the nearest exist grid - or your car, yes - and from then you teleport to needed district through the city map. It's very useful in New Reno in both Fallout 2 and Fallout Nevada - especially the latter for the city is bigger and exit grids are more restrictive, and also if you play without the SFALL, i.e. with limited scrolling.

What a bad example. You could use mutants in Necropolis teleporting you to lieutenant in Mariposa base.

Eh, that's a prime example for teleportation in general, actually. I've been using in ALL Fallouts, including the TC mods. Love how convenient it is that I could just go to the nearest exit grid and go to the other end of a settlement instead of wasting my time staring at the pixel moving for ~a minute.

But that does raise the question; what teleportation that people hated from AoD? The ones on the city map, or the ones where we could go straight from the raider camp back to Dellar? What's bad about that at all, anyway? Do people really, ACTUALLY love staring at pixels moving on screen?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

When people complain about teleporting they're complaining about being moved straight to the next quest object/NPC. They're not referring to quick exiting a map or whatever.

 

[Harthwain]

But that does raise the question; what teleportation that people hated from AoD? The ones on the city map, or the ones where we could go straight from the raider camp back to Dellar? What's bad about that at all, anyway? Do people really, ACTUALLY love staring at pixels moving on screen?

Isn't fast travel considered a decline mechanic (alongside the quest compas and such)?

Besides that, teleportation's main flaw is that it doesn't feel organic. You - as a player - aren't going anywhere, you teleport around. This contributes to what JarlFrank said earlier about the game feeling like it's on the rails:

But this has gone so far that some players feel like the game is taking away all their agency. Yes, things like walking from A to B or pixel-hunting for that one interactive spot may feel like they're superfluous and the game would be better off without them, but if you remove them completely and the game just opens text boxes and teleports you to the next location automatically, it will make players feel like they're being funneled, that the game is taking over their character too much.

I think having a "return to the quest giver" button as a fast travel option would have been better received by the players, while accomplishing the same goal.

 

[JarlFrank]

The instant fast-travel to points of interest within town is good. Like how Teron gives you Feng's workshop, the city gate, the marketplace etc as points you can quickly go to by opening the map and clicking on the place you want to go to.

But the teleporting within quests, where you usually don't get a choice other than teleporting to either place A or place B, feels too artificially restricting. What if I still wanted to look around? Can't do it, game forces me to teleport away RIGHT NOW.

There are many, many instances in AoD where talking to an important quest-related NPC means you are funneled into a line of decisions that will inevitably lead to you ending up elsewhere.

 

[Black Angel]

What if I still wanted to look around? Can't do it, game forces me to teleport away RIGHT NOW.

It's been a long while since I last played, but I remembered clearly being able to still look around. Only when I exit the map/finishes interacting with the main object of interest the game/talked with the person of interest will force you to teleport. In Aurelian Mine, for example, I can still look around and only after successfully done interacting with the console that the game forces me to teleport. I remembered failing to interact with the console at all would still let you to move around.

Now, obviously if that's the case then we could just reload to right before interacting with the console to continue looking around. And we can take it that in the specific case I've provided, the game tells you that "it's no time lollygagging after successfully activating the mine's apparatus, go get your ass and report to Dellar immediately!", but that's probably not gonna sit well with some people anyway. But the point, however, is that the game didn't really forces you until you're actually done interacting with the main object.

 

[Twiglard]

But the teleporting within quests, where you usually don't get a choice other than teleporting to either place A or place B, feels too artificially restricting. What if I still wanted to look around? Can't do it, game forces me to teleport away RIGHT NOW.

It seems to be part of Vince's design philosophy. There's absolutely no way to grind, and no excessive amount of experience to gain from side quests. The only way to overlevel content is to play a hybrid, which wasn't intended and is challenging. Similarly, Teron quest chains (IG, TG) have their last stages take place in locked rooms with no intermediate XP. You either distribute the SP correctly or resolutions are closed to you, except for the most basic one. Similarly, entire set-piece sequences rely on passing a couple of skill checks in one go, giving no room to breathe.

This "scene-focused" design kind of works, at least when it comes to the Cthulhean lore.

 

[d1nolore]

You guys are really nitpicking. It’s a great game from an indy studio. They did a great job. There’s always more devs could do to improve things even the best aren’t endlessly flawless.

None of these arguments hold water. You’re just looking to complain. Which is fine I guess that’s what RPGcodex is for

 

[Twiglard]

None of these arguments hold water. You’re just looking to complain. Which is fine I guess that’s what RPGcodex is for

That's a rationalization as to why they don't bother with AoD, after all that Vince and his studio did for the RPG community during its worst years, prior to the Kickstarter era. They refuse to git gud and are trying to save face.

Really, relatively few people here bothered with the game.

 

[CappenVarra]

teleporting without a good reason has been addressed in updates a long time ago (you know the game was not finalized in 2015 but received significant content updates since, right?)

the only places where it's left are situations where the alternative would be nonsensical: you just assassinated Carrinas and can hear the guards coming, of course your only options are how to get away - and there is no option to leisurely inspect his underwear in case it's made of mithril and worth looting ffs

 

[barghwata]

Some people are missing the point, the problem isn't in the fact that you can teleport, it's that the game forcibly teleports you mid-quest with no regard for your agency but it's really not a big problem as some peopla make it out to be. In fact it's the least of AoD's problems when it comes to stifling player agency.

 

[Absinthe]

It seems to be part of Vince's design philosophy. There's absolutely no way to grind, and no excessive amount of experience to gain from side quests.

Most AoD builds strongly expect a decent amount of sidequest SP in order to not be 100% funneled into only 2 skills for your faction.

The only way to overlevel content is to play a hybrid, which wasn't intended and is challenging.

Nope.

Nothing is stopping me from playing Merchant, collecting Feng's training (by using Streetwise to talk Cassius into "leaving"), then collecting Cassius's training (high HD rep from charisma), collecting Antidas's lore perks, collecting Merchant training from that other merchant in Teron MG, doing the half-assed defection to Cado for Cado's training, then defecting to Imperial Guards, then doing Kingmaker, all while staying a talking build.

If you play a con artist style Thief you can also pick up massive amounts of SP since in Teron almost every sidequest has a [Thief] or con artist route through it (kebab vendor, thugs behind tavern, Livia's pickpocketing encounter - which becomes free training, etc.), and there are loads of minor sidequests for conning people (merchant in front of the inn, noblewoman's house in front of the palace, gifting the fake ring to Antidas), and you can still get Feng+Cassius double training too with your high charisma, and when Feng leaves you can explore his backroom for more skill points.

Even plain straight Merchant has a lot of free training in Maadoran and some free training in Teron, especially if you go through the loremasters and Antidas. In Maadoran you can also get free training from the HA loremaster with enough reputation (10 cha preferred) and the random loremaster you find by knocking on doors.

Aside from that sidequesting and exploration gives massive SP in Maadoran, honestly.

Similarly, Teron quest chains (IG, TG) have their last stages take place in locked rooms with no intermediate XP. You either distribute the SP correctly or resolutions are closed to you, except for the most basic one. Similarly, entire set-piece sequences rely on passing a couple of skill checks in one go, giving no room to breathe.

It's totally possible to be capable of every resolution when you're in those locked rooms. Some of them come with a bunch of free training too. And MG doesn't really do the locked room thing. AG, IG, and TG do though.

This "scene-focused" design kind of works, at least when it comes to the Cthulhean lore.

It's not good design, honestly. It's a product of most of AoD's design happening in the dialogue editor instead of open world mechanical interactions.

 

[The Jester]

Ah yes The (((Merchant))) guild.
I remember starting the questline with the idea that I would become the:

Spoiler

But then in the middle of the story I realized what I really was :

Spoiler

 

[Grunker]

The way to play AoD is to note down skill requirements for the various content gates and to assign skillpoints only then and there, essentially starving your chargen if you want to experience more than the default path your build would take you through

Incidentally the reason I dislike the game. There's a lot I like and don't like, but that right there is far and beyond the main problem

 

[Absinthe]

Yeah, AoD revolves too much around solving your problems by throwing high skillchecks at it instead of engaging in actual problem-solving from the player's perspective.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

The way to play AoD is to note down skill requirements for the various content gates and to assign skillpoints only then and there, essentially starving your chargen if you want to experience more than the default path your build would take you through

Incidentally the reason I dislike the game. There's a lot I like and don't like, but that right there is far and beyond the main problem

But that's a bunch of bullshit. Time after time. You can play the game and have a bunch of fun just role-playing your characters. Yes, you will get better results if you specialize, which should be obvious after playing for 3 hours at which point you restart. Like a fucking cRPG.

 

[Johannes]

You'll have great results if you specialize as a gentleman-thief skilled in etiquette and stealing

 

[Absinthe]

You should also try to make a stealthy assassin who puts all his ranks into Lockpicking, Stealth, and Critical Strike. Can't go wrong there.

And definitely play a Loremaster who is purely focused on mental stats and Alchemy, Crafting, Etiquette, and Lore.

Also try an upper-class Merchant with just ranks in Trading, Etiquette, and Traps. That's sure to work well too. (Funnily enough the sheer amount of free Merchant training might end up redeeming this build.)

 

[Johannes]

Here's my guy at the end, just about to open the casket... Where should I put my remaining points now, etiquette maybe to really impress whoever's inside?


There's a lot of skillpoints to go around if you bother to do everything, though at this point I'm not sure why you would. Spending SPs to thieving skills in order to regain those SPs back (and get a bunch of useless junk along the way), just to see that yes, you can be a jack of all trades and still have a hard time killing the big bad without a bola. Though with a bola I can kill it in 1 round.

 

[d1nolore]

You should also try to make a stealthy assassin who puts all his ranks into Lockpicking, Stealth, and Critical Strike. Can't go wrong there.

And definitely play a Loremaster who is purely focused on mental stats and Alchemy, Crafting, Etiquette, and Lore.

Also try an upper-class Merchant with just ranks in Trading, Etiquette, and Traps. That's sure to work well too. (Funnily enough the sheer amount of free Merchant training might end up redeeming this build.)

What does Traps do? I don’t remember that at all?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

You should also try to make a stealthy assassin who puts all his ranks into Lockpicking, Stealth, and Critical Strike. Can't go wrong there.

And definitely play a Loremaster who is purely focused on mental stats and Alchemy, Crafting, Etiquette, and Lore.

Also try an upper-class Merchant with just ranks in Trading, Etiquette, and Traps. That's sure to work well too. (Funnily enough the sheer amount of free Merchant training might end up redeeming this build.)

What does Traps do? I don’t remember that at all?

Helps you identify dudes in dresses.

 

[Corbin Dallas Multipass]

You guys are really nitpicking. It’s a great game from an indy studio. They did a great job. There’s always more devs could do to improve things even the best aren’t endlessly flawless.

None of these arguments hold water. You’re just looking to complain. Which is fine I guess that’s what RPGcodex is for

The weakest defense possible. Please clap.

 

[dumbuglyorc]

What's more, even though Age of Decadence doesn't have this "flavour" it compensates by giving us WAY MORE choices and ways to achieve our goal. Compare getting rid of radscorpions in Shady Sands by wiping them out or just closing the entrance with explosives

I feel it's important to remind everybody that you can also just get the fuck out of Shady Sands, or even take out that shithole. To feel free, you also need the freedom to not do a quest. The only points in Fallout where you do not have that luxury are in blowing up the Cathedral and the Mutant Base.

...game for allowing you to interact with a meaningful world. That’s real freedom.

That's just about the silliest statement I've ever heard. Videogame worlds aren't meaningful, and even if they were, their amount of meaningfullness would have zero to do with the player's freedom.

It takes responsibility and your choices can bite you on your ass.

Combine this sort of harsh world in an RPG with this:

Fallout's more hands-off approach of giving you several tools and the opportunity to use them. You can place bombs anywhere. You can always open the skilldex and apply any skill to any object in the game. You can use science or repair on computers and see what happens, you can use doctor on wounded NPCs, etc. Yes, those skills only actually result in something in a handful of cases throughout the game, it's not like every skill actually works on every thing. But you can attempt to use every skill on every thing, and in those cases where doing so has a result, it is up to the player to figure that out.

And you have motherfucking gold. You don't have to be able to become the top dog, but you have to be able to try, or you will be a slave. This is minimally present in Fallout also, where the real top dog is the overseer of V13. You can attack him, but you can't win the fight, so you have to run away, but it's great that you can try even that and still finish the game.

Now what thread am I even in? Who the fuck let an orc in here? Decline, amirite?

 

[Goral]

...game for allowing you to interact with a meaningful world. That’s real freedom.

That's just about the silliest statement I've ever heard. Videogame worlds aren't meaningful, and even if they were, their amount of meaningfullness would have zero to do with the player's freedom.

Are you really that retarded that you can't even quote properly? That quote comes from deleted user: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...i-playing-it-right.129769/page-3#post-6313334

I feel it's important to remind everybody that you can also just get the fuck out of Shady Sands, or even take out that shithole. To feel free, you also need the freedom to not do a quest. The only points in Fallout where you do not have that luxury are in blowing up the Cathedral and the Mutant Base.

Well, AoD has much more realistic approach and you need a reason to travel the wastes and to know the location instead of wondering off blindly, risking dying by lack of water/food or encountering hostile creatures. Still, you can ignore Teron almost entirely in AoD and go straight to Madoraan.
As for taking out whole Shady Sands, now that's just retarded. Even in such shithole almost everyone are armed and at this point you don't have much ammo or good weapons to take them all out. Also, guns are a game-changer and one guy can take many others with proper weapon (I won't even mention Power Armor), not so in AoD where the best you can get is high-quality steel sword and EVERYONE is armed with at least a dagger.