Assassins Creed Valhalla - set in the Viking age - now on Steam

[DJOGamer PT]

Yeah but they are historically authentic, specially when it comes to environments.

No, not only are they historically trash when it comes to actual history, but the ostensibly "historically accurate" environments are also fucked right up with spectacle, over design and gameplay design decisions. They're as historically accurate as Ben Hur.

I didn't say "accurate", I said "authentic" there's a difference between the two words.
And when it comes to the wordl/enviroment design the AC franchise has been undeniably good, it's always been the series strong point.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Surely you can see the difference? True, AC has always had fantastical elements (Eagle's Vision, the Isu, DNA memories etc...) but they were small and a ploy to justify gameplay elements. The setting itself was grounded and based in reality, in nu-ACs you have straight up mythical beasts taking form, speaking with dead pharaohs etc.

you realize it's a game about ancient alien gods, right?

 

[AwesomeButton]

Did you like Twitcher3? If not, then these games are not for you - they are TW3 in another setting. Same gameplay, same RPG, same uninspired and derivative writing. Surely you're not trying to be edgy by pointing out that these aren't masterpieces?

I liked the Witcher, did two full playthroughs with DLCs. I don't want to get started on the subject, but Witcher 3 kept me interested by being a fun interactive movie with good writing and characters.

Odyssey has been completely soulless by comparison, and I quickly lose interest in a pure "offline mmo", "activate all the towers", Farcry kind of gameplay.

I deliberately went for the female character, at least a woman protagonist is something I've played less often than the guy who has "bland" written on his forehead from the first screen". Sadly her writing is just that of the typical hotshot action movie hero, only the lines are delivered by a female voice and 3d model. I guess in the Ubisoft-envisioned future we will all be the same person speaking through different outward shell. I went on to rant again, sorry.

I also immediately switched the game to French. I wouldn't bear the fake accent of whatever they imagine Greek people sound like. Also, the writers were probably given directions to use language simple enough to be understood by pre-teens, which about fits my level of French, so I thought it would make a good listening comprehension exercise.

 

[Atlantico]

Surely you can see the difference? True, AC has always had fantastical elements (Eagle's Vision, the Isu, DNA memories etc...) but they were small and a ploy to justify gameplay elements.

You evidently can't see that you're arguing that the game is "historically accurate" except when it isn't, but that's ok because reasons. AC was a dumb game that spawened a dumb series, but nothing is as dumb as the people who bought into the game being "historically accurate".

The setting itself was grounded and based in reality

The setting has DNA memories, time travel, the "Isu" and basically magic.

in nu-ACs you have straight up mythical beasts taking form, speaking with dead pharaohs etc.

So, nothing has changed. It's still fantasy - it's just not pretending to be "historically accurate" anymore.

 

[moon knight]

you realize it's a game about ancient alien gods, right?

They are not aliens ffs

 

[Quillon]

you realize it's a game about ancient alien gods, right?

nope it's about historical fiction; very small part of it is that shit lore attempting to tie it all together; trying to justify the games having the same name which you should ignore and enjoy the actual game

 

[Atlantico]

I didn't say "accurate", I said "authentic" there's a difference between the two words.

No, there's no meaningful difference between "historically accurate" and "historically authentic", unless you meant to add "appears historically authentic to a person who doesn't know much about history" and shortened it down to "historically authentic", then yes.

And when it comes to the wordl/enviroment design the AC franchise has been undeniably good, it's always been the series strong point.

On the contrary, because the AC devs never had to create their own "world", they just picked whatever time, place and setting from high-school history that struck their fancy and made an approximation. It's easy when you have the blueprint. It's like praising the AC devs if they made a somewhat believable copy of the Forgotten Realms, only they got most of the details wrong. Making the people of Waterdeep speak with French accents and Elminster was actually an Isu and there was a secret war between the Harpers and the Red Wizards of Thay. But if you didn't know much about FR, then I guess you'd praise it for being "undeniably good".

I liked the Witcher, did two full playthroughs with DLCs. I don't want to get started on the subject, but Witcher 3 kept me interested by being a fun interactive movie with good writing and characters.

Yeah, I played TW3 + DLCs as well.

Witcher 3 had shit writing, it's so generic fantasy and stupid overall, it boggles the mind how anyone can praise it. It's shit. Pure unimaginative, derivative shit.

Master Friedrich of Oxenfurt? Bounty hunter Djenge Frett? Durden the Taylor being the last opponent in the "fight club" quest? And so on and so forth. Banal, stupid, vapid, ... perfect for low-information consumers. Like the Assassin's Creed games.

Clearly you didn't mind these deficiencies of TW3, since you enjoyed the game, but perhaps tone down the indignation towards AC: Oddyssey because it's only about as stupid as TW3.

Odyssey has been completely soulless by comparison, and I quickly lose interest in a pure "offline mmo", "activate all the towers", Farcry kind of gameplay.

There's no such thing in Odyssey. No towers you need to activate. No MMO quests. Just pure Witcher 3. What game were you playing?

Sadly her writing is just that of the typical hotshot action movie hero, only the lines are delivered by a female voice and 3d model.

Unlike Geralt, who is a cross between Clint Eastwood in Dirty Harry and High Plains Drifter and Bruce Willis in Die Hard... yes, shocking.

I also immediately switched the game to French. I wouldn't bear the fake accent of whatever they imagine Greek people sound like.

IT IS NOT A HISTORICAL GAME IT IS FUCKING FANTASY. Do you need that in French to understand?

 

[Atlantico]

They are not aliens ffs

Oh I'm sorry, I totally care about the dumbass lore. Please, explain, in detail how I am wrong.

nope it's about historical fiction

No, historical fiction is something like I, Claudius. This is low-fantasty set in vaguely historical settings.

 

[moon knight]

Oh I'm sorry, I totally care about the dumbass lore. Please, explain, in detail how I am wrong.

You are wrong in the fact that they are not aliens. They are a race of extremely intelligent humanoids native of Earth. They developed extremely advance tech and at some point decided they needed automatrons. So they developed us, humans. We have been created as slaves, to serve the ISU, and controlled by a device that later was called "Apple of Eden". It's exlained here



But ISU also had human like desires and emotions. They were horny, so they started fucking (basically raping) these human slaves, conceiving ISU-human hybrids. People that don't have the biochips inside their brains (used to interact with the apple). At some point, 2 of them, Adam and Eve, started a rebellion. Stole the apple and started freeing humans. A war between the 2 faction ensues, until the solar flare hits the earth and most of the ISU civilization is destroyed. Few ISU remains, they start living among the humans. Their existance becomes legend, then myth, then religion. Some people still have a certain percentage of ISU DNA which makes them immune to the apple and grants them the Eagle Vision, a watered down version of the ISU's sixth sense.

See, it's not dumbass lore. It plays into myths and religion, subverting them. There were no Gods, just ISU which were misinterpreted throughout the millennia. It was cleverly written until later writers (cough Odyssey cough) fucked it up.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

No, there's no meaningful difference between "historically accurate" and "historically authentic"

"Historically Accurate" like the name implies, is a work that stays as close as possible to the historical events, people and places it portrays. "Historically Authentic" means that while the events and people said work portrays migth not have been real, it's world is as true as possible to the period and those events and people potraied are possible and "honest" to that world. Of course for both these two the "truth" is based on our best understanding
For example 1970's Waterloo is historically accurate, while HBO's Rome is historically authentic.
And AC is authentic in relations to the locations and other aspects of their settings (see the video I posted).

And when it comes to the wordl/enviroment design the AC franchise has been undeniably good, it's always been the series strong point.

On the contrary, because the AC devs never had to create their own "world", they just picked whatever time, place and setting from high-school history that struck their fancy and made an approximation. It's easy when you have the blueprint.

Now you're just being obtuse.
Just because they had a reference point doesn't invalidate the fact that the world you see in their games is objectively well designed.
This is like saying that ToEE doesn't have a good gameplay systems because they directly lifted them from the D&D ruleset.

 

[Atlantico]

You are wrong in the fact that they are not aliens. They are a race of extremely intelligent humanoids native of Earth. They developed extremely advance tech and at some point decided they needed automatrons. So they developed us, humans. We have been created as slaves, to serve the ISU, and controlled by a device that later was called "Apple of Eden". It's exlained here

I've never seen or read anything as fucking faggy as this.

But ISU also had human like desires and emotions. They were horny, so they started fucking (basically raping) these human slaves, conceiving ISU-human hybrids. People that don't have the biochips inside their brains (used to interact with the apple). At some point, 2 of them, Adam and Eve, started a rebellion. Stole the apple and started freeing humans. A war between the 2 faction ensues, until the solar flare hits the earth and most of the ISU civilization is destroyed. Few ISU remains, they start living among the humans. Their existance becomes legend, then myth, then religion. Some people still have a certain percentage of ISU DNA which makes them immune to the apple and grants them the Eagle Vision, a watered down version of the ISU's sixth sense.

Ahhhahahaha I was wrong, this is even faggier

But worse. It is stupid.

See, it's not dumbass lore. It plays into myths and religion, subverting them.

That totally blows my mind, Rian - you subverted my expectations.

There were no Gods, just ISU which were misinterpreted throughout the millennia.

Mind. Blown. I tip my hat to you.

It was cleverly written until later writers (cough Odyssey cough) fucked it up.

OK, you got me there. I didn't detect any less stupid shit from the "meta" plot in Odyssey. How was it different in Odyssey - genuine question, no sarcasm.

 

[AwesomeButton]

There's no such thing in Odyssey. No towers you need to activate. No MMO quests.

Sorry but you failed reading comprehension in too many places for me to start re-explaing my last post word by word.

Odyssey is just dull, and Witcher 3 was interesting.

 

[typical user]

TL;DR: Just label this as an autistic ramblings and move along.

I am currently replaying Assassin's Creed II which was given for free to everyone on Uplay thanks to Covid-19 (and we can agree to also promote Valhalla). I have to say the series is just full of plotholes, retcons and more. Was about to say it goes downhill but the problem is in ACII when you have first proper fight with Rodrigo Borgia in Venice it is already stingy and just unbelievable how it passed through story-writers and test-audiences (he literally escapes from hands of 10 Assassins who appear out of nowhere). I have also read the unofficial official wiki and it is just pure chaos trying to discern what is canon and what is not, how many Pieces of Eden are currently in play, which story-arcs have been closed etc.

My first conclusion is that people hate modern-day story-arc for following reasons:
1) It does not try to explain gaps between the games and events which happened off-screen, it does poor job explaining previous games. Examples:
-In AC:II you explore different tombs of Assassins' from Egypt, Persia, China and Mongolia in... Italy?
-In AC:III you meet Daniel Cross who has his own comic novel yet the game does not even try to explain who he is?
-In AC:IV or Rogue and also in Odyssey Fate of Atlantis DLC you meet Juhani Otso Berg and again like with Daniel Cross there is little context provided because you skipped content that you probably did not know exists
-later games avoid mentioning previous (the only exceptions being Desmond's Saga)

2) It leaves many questions unanswered:
-what happened to Abstergo plans with launching a satellite to mind-control entire Earth's populace?
-what happened to Juno after AC:IV?
-what happened to Minerva and Jupiter who were introduced in Ezio trilogy?
-what happened to already shown Pieces of Eden (Sword of Damokles, Poseidon's Trident, Altair's Apple retrieved by Ezio, Papal's Staff, Abstergo time-travel device, Crystal Skulls, ring deflecting bullets and more)?

3) It interrupts the ancestors' stories in least expected moments. Very few games let you exit Animus on your own and none give you full choice when you want to pursue modern-day arc.

4) Multiple Deus ex machina:
-the threat of sun's radiation and geological instability of Earth is fixed by a piece of tech the Precursors' couldn't use?
-the satellite launch is cancelled even though Templars' should possess most of the artefacts and a realtime map shown in AC:1
-Rodrigo Borgia is for no reason spared in AC:II or it would've caused history divergence from real world's
-Aita, husband of Juno, has his DNA encoded in human DNA and therefore able to reincarnate endlessly in his quest to bring his wife digital form into physical body

Ubisoft has to release (my mistake re-release with AC:Odyssey accounted) a factual book describing all the events in the universe if someone wants to be fully informed what's going on. Majority does not care since the overaching story is badly written and multiple times rewritten, drip-fed and many times have your eyes rolling (the ending cutscene from AC:Syndicate is just atrocious example). I hoped the series would be some sort of saga with Desmond Miles as the first protagonist to learn of his ancestors' deeds and then forge his own story in present day. Maybe Watch Dogs series came to be as a testing ground if the developers are ready for full-scale open world game with GTA elements. Even Nolan North the VO of Desmond was surprised when he got handed AC:IV script pointing out to character's definitive end. From a character who received a lot of development through years to play as a walking tablet and have the previous one killed off in rushed cutscene. I hope Layla's saga proves to be the series redemption but it seems very unlikely given the fact Odyssey does not follow established canon (Darius wielding his hidden blade on opposite side of his arm, not being an Assassin proper, Aya/Amunet convicing Cleopatra to commit suicide instead of killing her with a snake).

AC:2 was great because it developed gameplay and story-wise compared to AC:1, even though it already has Ubisoft game-syndrome with tons of treasure chests, eagle feathers but solving the Truth puzzles and having the universe expanded in such way is something that you can find only in tabletop RPGs like World of Darkness. It has many nonsenses but the use of Illuminati or Hitler to develop a story is in my opinion interesting and sadly wasted. If they closed Desmond's arc proper or even left with their usual cliff-hanger that he is ready to fight after stopping 21-12-2012 doomsday then they would be a lot more free to develop their games. Instead they have frustrated fanbase breathing on their necks asking for answers which are provided in shoddy comic-books.

 

[moon knight]

-cut-

Your only argument in this discussion so far has been "this is stupid, the writing is retarded, reeeeeee"

OK, you got me there. I didn't detect any less stupid shit from the "meta" plot in Odyssey. How was it different in Odyssey - genuine question, no sarcasm.

The spear granting immunity from gravity and fall damage? The staff of Hermes granting eternal life?

Assassin's Creed was science fiction. Odyssey transformed it into a fantasy.

 

[Atlantico]

"Historically Accurate" like the name implies, is a work that stays as true as possible to the historical events, people and places it portrays.

Yes.

"Historically Authentic" means that while the events and people said work portrays migth not have been real, the world is true to the period and those events and people are possible within it.

Historical verisimilitude is not the same as "historically authentic" in the English language. Something authentic is the same as something real - as opposed to something which appears it could be real, but isn't.

or example 1970's Waterloo is historically accurate, while HBO's Rome is historically authentic.

Clearly your understanding of the finer points of the English language are somewhat deficient. As above, the word authentic doesn't mean what you think it means.

Just because they had a reference point doesn't invalidate the fact that the world you see in their games is objectively well designed.

This is a circular argument, and quite stupid as well, the AC series used a fictional version of our history so they can't design it "wrongly", there is no "wrong" version of a fantasy history - just varying degrees of stupidity.

But if you are trying to say, that the AC series made an objectively well designed authentic (that means *real*, btw) historical setting, then that can be easily and quickly disproved as patently false and actually a bizarre claim. So I hope you were not trying to say that, and were instead making a circular argument.

This is like saying that ToEE doesn't have a good gameplay systems because they directly lifted them from the D&D ruleset.

No, not really. One is not like the other, I already made a good analogy. You can't just take one thing and compare it to another, and say that's an equally good analogy.

Well, you can - you just did - but not without looking stupid.

 

[Atlantico]

Sorry but you failed reading comprehension in too many places for me to start re-explaing my last post word by word.

You never explained your drivel in any coherent way to begin with, Frenchy. Don't take credit for something you never did.

Odyssey is just dull, and Witcher 3 was interesting.

Yes, and you realize that your opinion is worth as much as it weighs.

You have shit taste, so what? So do a lot of people, but they usually don't lie or make stuff up to justify it. Man, Britney Spears is such a talented and profound artist, she has so much to say and I know this because when you take the first chords of her third songs of all her albums, it says ADHD.

You were still making shit up about the gameplay which was untrue. Boring or not, you made stuff up to justify your opinion. When you have to lie or make stuff up to justify your opinion, it's a pretty shit opinion.

 

[Atlantico]

Your only argument in this discussion so far has been "this is stupid, the writing is retarded, reeeeeee"

Argument supported by examples. So fuck you.

The spear granting immunity from gravity and fall damage? The staff of Hermes granting eternal life?

"Altair's Apple retrieved by Ezio, Papal's Staff, Abstergo time-travel device, Crystal Skulls, ring deflecting bullets and more", to quote typical user are all as much fantasy as the items you mention. The AC series has never been science fiction, but science fantasy.

Odyssey just continued the trend, that's what pisses some autists off, for some reason. It's always been fantasy, it's never been historical and it's always been for the low-information, average intelligence, low effort player desiring a power fantasy.

Odyssey is exactly the same in that regard, just has better gameplay, larger world and some light RPG elements.

 

[moon knight]

"Altair's Apple retrieved by Ezio, Papal's Staff, Abstergo time-travel device, Crystal Skulls, ring deflecting bullets and more"

Altair's Apple and papal staff work by manipulating bio-receptors placed in the brain, the Animus isn't time travel (you can only experience the memories of your ancestors encoded in your DNA, you can't manipulate them or change them), the Crystal Skull was retarded, ring deflected bullets by creating a magnetic barrier/shield, etc... So, science fiction.

 

[Atlantico]

Altair's Apple and papal staff work by manipulating bio-receptors placed in the brain

That's techno-babble, not science fiction. There *is* a difference. The wand of Mind Control in D&D works by manipulating bio-receptors placed in the brain. See, that's why D&D isn't high-fantasy, but science fiction!

the Animus isn't time travel (you can only experience the memories of your ancestors encoded in your DNA, you can't manipulate them or change them),

Memories are not encoded in DNA, that's literally fantasy. Not science fiction.

the Crystal Skull was retarded

Quite, in fact here's an excerpt from some wiki:

The first type function much like modern telephone devices, allowing communication between all who possess a device. The second type has a record-and-playback function, allowing a user to record and send audio-visual messages to others who possess a counterpart Crystal Skull. Finally, the third works as a monitoring devices, projecting audio-visual surveillance through connection with a living being's blood in a vial.

Pure fantasy drivel. But hey, maybe it looks like a science tech device?? ...

ring deflected bullets by creating a magnetic barrier/shield

That's not how magnets work. Unless it is a fantasy world, not our own.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

you realize it's a game about ancient alien gods, right?

They are not aliens ffs

What are they then? Because it seems like the writers stopped giving a shit after Assassin’s Creed: Brotherhood.

 

[Quillon]

Memories are not encoded in DNA, that's literally fantasy. Not science fiction.

Because sci-fi can only be about proven stuff? Maybe memories are encoded in our DNA and we don't know it yet?

Besides sci-fi and fantasy are the same, one's bullshit is inspired by science the other's bullshit inspired by bullshit :D

 

[DJOGamer PT]

or example 1970's Waterloo is historically accurate, while HBO's Rome is historically authentic.

Clearly your understanding of the finer points of the English language are somewhat deficient. As above, the word authentic doesn't mean what you think it means.

Just because they had a reference point doesn't invalidate the fact that the world you see in their games is objectively well designed.

This is a circular argument, and quite stupid as well, the AC series used a fictional version of our history so they can't design it "wrongly", there is no "wrong" version of a fantasy history - just varying degrees of stupidity.

But if you are trying to say, that the AC series made an objectively well designed authentic (that means *real*, btw) historical setting, then that can be easily and quickly disproved as patently false and actually a bizarre claim. So I hope you were not trying to say that, and were instead making a circular argument.

And again you misunderstand my post, and now also accusing me of bad reading comprehension.
I didn't say rigth or wrong design, I said good world design
As in the locations and enviroments are well designed and that they are historically authentic - i.e. they are a good representation of what the real thing could've looked like based on our current best understanding.
And no this isn't a "quickly disproved as patently false and actually a bizarre claim" as since the first game, Ubisoft has done massive amounts of research and hired consultants for each one of the games. And again I've posted in this very page a video that back this up.

This is like saying that ToEE doesn't have a good gameplay systems because they directly lifted them from the D&D ruleset.

No, not really. One is not like the other, I already made a good analogy.

Nah you really didn't an even passable analogy. You made the retarded claim that just because the devs constructed something out of a reference point/material said aspect cannot be good regardless of the actual objective quality of the end result.

 

[passerby]

It's a shame they skipped ancient Rome. They had Rome game already and its setting is too simillar to Greece, so I guess this was their reasoning, but ancient Rome has a great story potential and Colosseum.

 

[Atlantico]

Besides sci-fi and fantasy are the same, one's bullshit is inspired by science the other's bullshit inspired by bullshit :D

Assassin's Creed was science fiction. Odyssey transformed it into a fantasy.

You're quoting the "historical consultant" on the TV show that this video is shilling. No shit he's selling his drivel as "authentic". They, like Ubisoft, are selling their historical fiction as "authentic".

You understand them to say that it's "believable", but no they're actually trying to shovel shit here and claim that their fictional series is historically authentic. That means *real*.

It's not. Btw.

And again you misunderstand my post, and now also accusing me of bad reading comprehension.

Authentic means real, there is no other meaning. That is all I am saying about your reading comprehension.

I didn't say rigth or wrong design, I said good world design

When one describes history, and historical facts, it is done either correctly or incorrectly. Thus a good historical design must be accurate, by definition - i.e. authentic. But you continue to misunderstand what authentic means.

Seeing as their world design is fantasy, it can't be bad, by definition. The AC games exist in a world that looks a lot like ours, but clearly isn't. It's less work than to create your own world, it took Tolkien a lifetime and he was pretty good at it.

So the quick and easy route is to take this world and tweak it. "What if..." becomes the core phrase.

As in the locations and enviroments are well designed and that they are historically authentic - i.e. they are a good representation of what the real thing could've looked like based on our current best understanding.

Authentic money is not just money that is a good representation of what the real thing could look like. It's authentic money. Anything else is not authentic.

Some things are by definition binary - authenticity is binary. It's either authentic or it isn't. Again, you're confusing verisimilitude with authenticity.

And no this isn't a "quickly disproved as patently false and actually a bizarre claim" as since the first game, Ubisoft has done massive amounts of research and hired consultants for each one of the games. And again I've posted in this very page a video that back this up.

Yes they get the landmarks right, that's not the same as historical accuracy or authenticity. Any trained monkey can get those things right. But reading your claim is like a marketing blurb from Ubisoft.

Do you now or have you ever worked for Ubisoft marketing?

Nah you really didn't an even passable analogy. You made the retarded claim that just because the devs constructed something out of a reference point/material said aspect cannot be good regardless of the actual objective quality of the end result.

I'm sorry are you literally retarded or were you just repeatedly dropped on your head as a child? Yes, I made an excellent analogy, where worldbuilding was the core and you made a retarded and low IQ effort at an analogy and it was just a wet brainfart, something about rules in games, but nothing about the topic at hand. Also, learn English bitch.

 

[Quillon]

Besides sci-fi and fantasy are the same, one's bullshit is inspired by science the other's bullshit inspired by bullshit :D

Assassin's Creed was science fiction. Odyssey transformed it into a fantasy.

Yeah now its time to undo that idiotic shit.