Auction House Online: The Game (Diablo 3) is a MASSIVE decline

[Damned Registrations]

I'd be happiest if it found some happy medium between D2 (skill trees) and D1 (spell books) systems.

Something with random consumable items bestowing actual abilities, but also with tree of some sort, maybe used to modify stuff or add extra effects combining with the previous system.

PoE is actually fairly close to that. The skillgems aren't consumable, but they are found both randomly and some given out as quest rewards (so you're not completely fucked for choice, a mage can get some spells instead of just random melee skills) and a skill tree for passives.

I can't imagine the stats being very interesting in D3 gemming/equipment wise. All the main stats add some sort of defense, so the best option is simply going to be whichever one gives your class bonus damage. And it'll be the same stat for all your skills.

My favourite system for a HnS I've played so far though is still the one used in Record of Lodoss War (and the significantly more derpy shining force clones of it made by the same guys... though adding companions and a lot more active skills was a good move.)
Although that entire system was largely built around the concept of exploration and non linear progression. But, well, thats a better thing to build a system around imo. I'm not sure why there hasn't been any diablo clones moving in that direction honestly. Everything is tied up with the idea of multiplayer + linear progress through chapters of increasing numbers (but not difficulty.)

 

[Black]

Old system is pretty much like D2 system. Another skill level adds +x to duration, damage etc.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Now that I think about it, why the fuck is it a skill 'tree' anyways? What does limiting abilities by level or prior investments add? Nothing. It just makes shit more limited.

I'd love to see a skill 'forest'. Dozens of little skill trees, with a base skill that can be acquired at any level, and multiple sub attributes that can be boosted or added. So you might have a firebolt spell- with subskills for adding more projectiles, AoE explosions on impact, critical rate, cooldown, a damage over time buning effect, and other shit like that. Maybe some crossovers between skills too; like a subskill for your firebolt spell that makes it cast your flame wall spell whenever it scores a critical hit.

Then you could start out as a flame wall specialist, and later branch out into firebolts, focusing on multiple hits and critical chance over damage so you can use it to trigger your amped up flame walls. Or you could use other shit to make the flame walls more effective, like movement impairing effects from wind elemental skills or something. Or just opt for another souped up damage spell with no real synergy at all that is simply better for enemies the fire wall isn't good at handling, like a powerful lightning spell that can't be evaded or something, for fast enemies or enemies with fire resistance.

If something like that were put in a diablo clone normally, they'd make flame wall level 1, firebolt level 16, and you couldn't learn firebolt until you'd learned flame wall and everything else in between. Which is a retarded way to set things up. I mean it was a novel idea... the first time. But it makes no sense. A tech tree makes sense in a strategy game because you want some tech to be plain better than other techs, so you don't want people researching tanks before chariots. But for character building you want as many viable options as possible, so forcing the player to pick obsolete shit to unlock the good stuff is stupid and makes everyone more similar.

 

[Average Manatee]

Titan Quest kind of had this idea where you could upgrade different parts of abilities. It didn't matter much though because in a H&S where you spam one ability 80% of the time you might as well upgrade every part of that skill.

No level limits is just silly. Some spells are naturally stronger and should wait till later in the game. Level 1 characters do not need to cast Earthquake of the Heavens or whatever. Nerfing Earthquake of the Heavens so that it only does 5 damage at level 1 is just stupid.

A Diablo-like with some kind of TES-style spell maker along with scripting capabilities would be awesome. Start with a few basic shapes and elemental effects and have more complex components discoverable through the gameworld. Would probably end up a lot like Magicka actually. Not sure how you could integrate physical characters into the system, but going with a 1-class-does-everything system and letting someone freely specialize in a weapon and then augment it with spellcrafting would probably work well. I could go for a max-level build using a repeating crossbow firing fire-enchanted bullets that explode into a wall of electricity that causes insanity or some shit.

 

[Tigranes]

I wish they kept the UI and icons, they look great.

 

[Damned Registrations]

The thing is, Earthquake of the Heavens doesn't need to be a spell on the list. You could start out with a Quake spell with a low radius at level 1 that just stuns enemies a bit. Ramp up the AoE, add damage, make it trigger lightning strikes, let it hit multiple times over a duration... THEN it's a fucking earthquake of the heavens- 30 levels later, when you've focused on it the whole time. Or it could be anywhere in between. Maybe it just stuns things near you repeatedly. Or in a big radius. Or does a lot of damage with insignificant stuns.

You can apply this line of thinking to any kind of spell. Summoning a demon going from a single weakling to a horde, or a huge spellcasting pit fiend, or it's a huge pitfiend but only has the melee still, or whatever. Curses starting as single target and scaling in duration, area and strength as you want, with additional side effects. Barrier spells that gain efficiency, strength, duration, and particular affinities.

Make some shit mutually exclusive or have some upgrades increase the cost of the ability, so summoning a horde of spellcasting pitfiends is prohibitively expensive, so you can't upgrade every part of a single skill and then spam just it.

 

[Stabwound]

I wish they kept the UI and icons, they look great.

I agree. Actually, the skill UI is absolutely awful now. It's... dare I say it... consolized. It's very suboptimal for navigating with a mouse, anyway. Sad.

 

[Excommunicator]

What a sad and sorry state when a company once admirable like Blizzard goes from having a reputation of excellence in just about all areas of development, to a reputation built around making some of the most devious, soulless and simplification-minded decisions ever imagined.

 

[Stabwound]

It was kind of expected that Diablo 3 would be a step down from 2. I'm not sure how many people that even worked on D2 were on the current D3 team, but I don't think it is many, and definitely not anyone that was important, and now they have the Activision turd hanging over their head at all times. They shitcanned the original Diablo 3 which was being worked on by the D2 guys at Blizzard North (who did D1 and 2) and the people that mattered left to create Hellgate: London and now Torchlight 1/2, all of which are banal shit boring (maybe TL2 will be good).

Seeing as how D3 was designed entirely by people that had nothing to do with D2, expectations were pretty low for me. Having said that, I had more fun with the Diablo 3 beta than I did with the full Hellgate or Torchlight, so I guess that counts for something.

 

[Tigranes]

D3 is certainly better than Torchlight 1, though I haven't kept up with TL2.

 

[Whisper]

No level limits is just silly. Some spells are naturally stronger and should wait till later in the game. Level 1 characters do not need to cast Earthquake of the Heavens or whatever. Nerfing Earthquake of the Heavens so that it only does 5 damage at level 1 is just stupid.

Level 1 character:

1) wouldnt have mana to cast Earthquake of the Heavens OR
2) would do with very low chance
etc

Many possibilities not to allow from lvl 1 to cast imba skills from start. and they make sense - like in DHoU chosen god wont answer prayer for powerful effect from lowly cleric or in Aleshar casting too powerful for current lvl spell will kill mage from heart attack since he cant manage that amount of power without loss. But have also chance to succeed so its not "you are forbidden" just very risky.


All options are certainly better then BUT THOUGH MUST or nerfing damage

 

[abija]

and the people that mattered left to create Hellgate: London and now Torchlight 1/2, all of which are banal shit boring (maybe TL2 will be good)

What makes you think those are the people that mattered especially when you declare their next games shit? I mean, Roper goes off and implements a subscription based Diablo and apparently you think it would have been better if he stayed for D3?

 

[Whisper]

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4768577764

"I already created macro for my keyboard, and it changes my skills within less than a second".


This means player is not limited by 6 slots for spells, you can use fully any spell. Aka every class of same level will be Clone (save for items) of another, since spell selection will be 100% same for them (aka ALL of them) with just button press.
So much for "customization".


p.s. There was slogan "by gamers for gamers".

For Blizzard it need be changed, "by marketing for retards".

 

[Black]

Isn't there a delay if you swap a skill if you're not in town?

 

[Gord]

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4768577764

"I already created macro for my keyboard, and it changes my skills within less than a second".

This means player is not limited by 6 slots for spells, you can use fully any spell. Aka every class of same level will be Clone (save for items) of another, since spell selection will be 100% same for them (aka ALL of them) with just button press.
So much for "customization".

More importantly, this might have huge possible implications for PvP.
It's obviously bordering on cheating.
I guess Blizzard will likely either patch that possibility away or issue some bans.

 

[Whisper]

It can be done with Nostromo, pretty sure. Which cant be even detected by Blizzard. Since Nostrom emulates succession of key or mouse presses.

Ofc casuals wont be using Nostromo, so 99% of D3 playerbase it out, but just saying.

 

[Gord]

Well, then the obvious answer is to prevent changing active skills during a fight - either limit it to towns or give long cool-down when outside town (e.g. 30s to 1 minute without any usable skill)

 

[abija]

This means player is not limited by 6 slots for spells, you can use fully any spell. Aka every class of same level will be Clone (save for items) of another, since spell selection will be 100% same for them (aka ALL of them) with just button press.
So much for "customization".

This just means you take grasping at straws to a whole new level.
Whenever you change a skill it gets put on a minor cooldown and if a skill is on cooldown it can't be changed (which also implies a skill with 60s cd can't be changed for 60s after use).

 

[Whisper]

Whenever you change a skill it gets put on a minor cooldown and if a skill is on cooldown it can't be changed (which also implies a skill with 60s cd can't be changed for 60s after use).

Does this minor cooldown prevents using skills in few seconds?

Are there many skills on 60 sec cd?

 

[Semper]

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4768577764

"I already created macro for my keyboard, and it changes my skills within less than a second".


This means player is not limited by 6 slots for spells, you can use fully any spell. Aka every class of same level will be Clone (save for items) of another, since spell selection will be 100% same for them (aka ALL of them) with just button press.
So much for "customization".

not entering the debate again, but this macro just skips the ui, the clicking process of changing skills. the cd still applies... you should really try to understand what you read, even more so before posting. don't give into your blind hatred :D

 

[CSM]

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4768577764

"I already created macro for my keyboard, and it changes my skills within less than a second".


This means player is not limited by 6 slots for spells, you can use fully any spell. Aka every class of same level will be Clone (save for items) of another, since spell selection will be 100% same for them (aka ALL of them) with just button press.
So much for "customization".


p.s. There was slogan "by gamers for gamers".

For Blizzard it need be changed, "by marketing for retards".

This means you didn't even bother playing the beta and don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about.

 

[Jaesun]

This thread has a butthurt rating of 11/10

 

[Black]

Give me all your butthurt.

 

[Mangoose]

Whenever you change a skill it gets put on a minor cooldown and if a skill is on cooldown it can't be changed (which also implies a skill with 60s cd can't be changed for 60s after use).

Does this minor cooldown prevents using skills in few seconds?

Yes.

 

[Black]

And the cooldown increases with the difficulty AFAIK.