Eternity Avowed - Obsidian's first person action-RPG in the Pillars of Eternity setting - coming November 12th(?)

[Gargaune]

Help me out, what's the difference between "open-zone" and "hub" maps? Or are we that desperate to tap into that "open-world" marketing that we're inventing new words for old shit?

 

[Viata]

but it's still "the player's story first and foremost"​

Why are they pushing this?

 

[Infinitron]

Help me out, what's the difference between "open-zone" and "hub" maps? Or are we that desperate to tap into that "open-world" marketing that we're inventing new words for old shit?

If it's like Monarch from The Outer Worlds, the "open zone" is still big enough to have several towns, not just a single hub that you run quests in and out of.

 

[Rhobar121]

but it's still "the player's story first and foremost"​

Why are they pushing this?

"Player's story" means nothing less than games in which the plot is completely non-existent and is only a not-so-sophisticated reason why the game exists when it might as well not exist.
Example? Every game Bethesda ever made.
Alternatively, there will be a game with multiple choices, each of which literally leads to the same result, with dialogue options such as: yes, no (but yes), sarcastic yes.
Of course, everything will have zero consequences.
Have you joined the warrior guild? No problem, you can also be an archmage, a dark assassin, or a leader of thieves and no one will care.

One game that came out in the last 2 years where such a term could be positive is BG3. I won't believe that Obisidian can provide even 10% of that to Larian.

 

[Hobo Elf]

One thing I'll note is that we've seen pistols but no muskets, bows or crossbows. Also no polearms so no spear polishing? Wonder if any of these are in.

Just occurred to me how cool a bayoneted musket(-ish rifle thingy) could be. Fire once, then go melee. If the battle permits it, try the slooooooooooooow reload, and fire again.

But then you wouldn't need to interact with their highly innovative weapon switching system. One weapon that does it all would be cheating the good designers who worked hard on that feature.

 

[Hagashager]

One thing I'll note is that we've seen pistols but no muskets, bows or crossbows. Also no polearms so no spear polishing? Wonder if any of these are in.

The PoE setting plays very fast and loose with its guns, which is surprising considering Sawyer is a gun-person (or was at least).

Technically, PoE is mid-Renaissance: for fire-arms that means matchlock arquebus and wheellock pistols which are both referenced in the PoE games.

However, both of them function like flintlocks. That may seem like I'm splitting hairs here because most people assume everything prior to cartridrige breach-loading guns were the same, but they really weren't.

The wheellock is a substantial step up from the matchlock, which was so cumbersome to use you almost never saw it outside of a warfare context. The flintlock, likewise, cut the wheellock's typically multi-minute reload speed down to half a minute if you were fast. None of this is represented in-game.

Same goes for most weapons. The Estoc Kana Rua carries, for example, was a highly specialized blade for thrusting and would not have made a good self-defense weapon for a casual wanderer like him.

Also, and this is arguably the dumbest part of the setting, apparently the printing press isn't a thing. This is so stupidly ignorant it boggles my mind.

The Printing Peess is what allowed the Renaissance to take place. You don't just handwave the Printing Press not being used en-masse. That's not how that works.

 

[AwesomeButton]

but it's still "the player's story first and foremost"​

Why are they pushing this?

They have nothing else to push.

 

[Quillon]

Also, and this is arguably the dumbest part of the setting, apparently the printing press isn't a thing. This is so stupidly ignorant it boggles my mind.

The Printing Peess is what allowed the Renaissance to take place. You don't just handwave the Printing Press not being used en-masse. That's not how that works.

its said that Thaos/Leaden Key is the reason there is no printing press in Eora

 

[NaturallyCarnivorousSheep]

One thing I'll note is that we've seen pistols but no muskets, bows or crossbows. Also no polearms so no spear polishing? Wonder if any of these are in.

The PoE setting plays very fast and loose with its guns, which is surprising considering Sawyer is a gun-person (or was at least).

Technically, PoE is mid-Renaissance: for fire-arms that means matchlock arquebus and wheellock pistols which are both referenced in the PoE games.

However, both of them function like flintlocks. That may seem like I'm splitting hairs here because most people assume everything prior to cartridrige breach-loading guns were the same, but they really weren't.

The wheellock is a substantial step up from the matchlock, which was so cumbersome to use you almost never saw it outside of a warfare context. The flintlock, likewise, cut the wheellock's typically multi-minute reload speed down to half a minute if you were fast. None of this is represented in-game.

Honestly I've assumed both the arquebuses and pistols were matchlock in game even though they look like flintlocks(can't see match from any orientation etc.).

 

[jackofshadows]

but it's still "the player's story first and foremost"​

Why are they pushing this?

They have nothing else to push.

What about each other's shit?

 

[Gargaune]

but it's still "the player's story first and foremost"​

Why are they pushing this?

It seems to be "the in thing" in videogame marketing of late, trying to particularise the product to the player on a personal level. BG3 was quite bullish on the player "seeing" themselves in the chargen, Obsidian keeps repeating the "your world, you story" line with Avowed (which is odd, since it should read "our world, your story"), "you are V" in Cyberpunk... It's not resonating with me because I feel it's almost like misreading the genre, I'm all for player agency in RPGs, but I see it as co-authoring a character in a shared fiction, not personally identifying with them.

Help me out, what's the difference between "open-zone" and "hub" maps? Or are we that desperate to tap into that "open-world" marketing that we're inventing new words for old shit?

If it's like Monarch from The Outer Worlds, the "open zone" is still big enough to have several towns, not just a single hub that you run quests in and out of.

I see, thanks. I haven't played The Outer Worlds, but I get the picture. I guess BG3's first area would hit the same mark, dunno about later on.

 

[Infinitron]

More cope interviews, now at IGN.

https://www.ign.com/articles/obsidian-explains-why-avowed-wont-let-you-romance-your-companions

Obsidian Explains Why Avowed Won't Let You Romance Your Companions​

The developers wanted to focus on "thoughtful relationships" with companions.​

With games like Starfield and Baldur's Gate 3 last year having players wax poetic about which of their video game besties they most want to smooch, it can sometimes feel like romance systems are becoming a staple of AAA party-based RPGs. But that's not going to be the case with Avowed, which is opting to forego a dedicated romance system for a focus on "building thoughtful relationships" with companions instead.

This comes from an interview IGN did with Avowed game director Carrie Patel, where she confirmed Avowed would not feature romance options, and why:

"We are building thoughtful relationships with our companion characters," she said. "Ultimately, I personally am a fan of making that an option, but I feel like if you're going to do it, you really, really have to commit and make sure that you're giving all to fulfilling that in a way that feels both true to the character, but also creates an engaging player experience. So not something we're doing for Avowed, but I wouldn't say never."

Patel points out that having a dedicated romance system in a story-focused game is a ton of work: you need options for both a fulfilling romance as well as a regular friendship for those who don't want to go down that path. In addition, players generally expect multiple romance options, and expectations around the depth of such relationships only seem to be climbing higher and higher with each new Karlach and Shadowheart video games introduce. It's a big ask, and also not a necessary one if the story of the game doesn't lend itself to romance in the first place.

Later in our interview, Patel further hinted at the ways in which Avowed's non-romantic companion relationships could possibly manifest. Thus far, the studio has given multiple nods to how player choices will impact the world around them, most notably showing this off during a quest in the latest Xbox Developer Direct. Patel and I chatted a bit about this in the context of games like Avowed letting players shape their character's moral compass via character actions and reactions. Avowed is not a game with a morality meter, she said, but characters will certainly have feelings about the actions you take, and won't be shy about expressing them.

"One of the fun challenges with design, particularly around consequences or even sometimes around player options that are reactive to either the kind of character you've built or choices you've made earlier in the game is over the years I've learned that that stuff is always a lot less obvious to the player than to the designer," Patel said. "And so I think sometimes you have to be a bit more direct in tying those options and those consequences to content that's come before, because if it feels too natural and too understated, it feels like a thing that's happening, not a thing that's happening because of what you did."

In short: prepare for characters, possibly including your companions, to let you know if you're behaving like a little jerkwad.

Avowed is steadily nearing its 2024 release, having first been revealed back in 2020 at the Xbox Games Showcase and getting a deeper look at a 2023 Xbox showcase. It's set in Eora, the world of Pillars of Eternity, which incidentally just got an update earlier this month despite the game being nine years old.

https://www.ign.com/articles/obsidian-explains-why-avowed-only-lets-you-pick-human-or-elf

Obsidian Explains Why Avowed Only Lets You Pick Human or Elf​

Eora may be diverse, but Aedyr is less-so.​

Upcoming Obsidian RPG Avowed takes place in Eora, which in the fictional universe of Pillars of Eternity, is pretty diverse. But after Pillars let players choose from a number of different character races, fans have been wondering for some time now why Avowed is only letting them pick human or elf when customizing a player character.

We've learned that Avowed player character creation is limited to making either a human or an elf in previous game reveals - no dwarves, no aumauas, and definitely no godlikes. While this has been a disappointment to some fans, Avowed game director Carrie Patel has made it clear that the reasons for this limitation are twofold: it's both a story choice and a development decision.

On the story side, Patel explains in an interview with IGN, it's because the player in Avowed is a representative from the Aedyr Empire, which is predominantly made up of humans and elves. Those familiar with Pillars of Eternity lore will recognize that this is indeed established canon, and has shaped a lot of the region's particular culture.

Still, that might be cold comfort to those hoping to recreate their aumaua OC from Pillars in Avowed. For those folks, Patel offers some additional context that helps things make a bit more sense from the development side:

"We want to make sure that whatever experience we're offering is smooth and natural and well paced to the player," she says. "And one of the things about the species of Pillars that I think is a lot easier to account for in an isometric game is just the variation in sizes. You have aumaua and then you have humans and elves who are at roughly the same scale, and then you have orlans and dwarves who are quite a bit smaller. And for each of those, especially in first person, you're adjusting the height of the player character's capsule and sort of where their weapons are relative to enemies and how their hits land and how hits land on them. And it's obviously not that any of these things are impossible to solve, but you're always making choices and choosing your priorities and development."

Patel declined to comment further on the character creator in Avowed, which we haven't seen much of yet, but it's also important to remember that Avowed is a game that largely or entirely takes place in the first-person. While it's a bummer not to be able to be a dwarf, realistically, the only part of yourself you'll be seeing for most of the game is your hands.

Avowed got a 2024 release window recently, after first being teased back in 2020 at the Xbox Games Showcase and getting a more complete reveal at a 2023 Xbox showcase. We also spoke to Patel last week about why Avowed is foregoing romances to focus on different kinds of companion relationships.

 

[Roguey]

On the story side, Patel explains in an interview with IGN, it's because the player in Avowed is a representative from the Aedyr Empire, which is predominantly made up of humans and elves. Those familiar with Pillars of Eternity lore will recognize that this is indeed established canon, and has shaped a lot of the region's particular culture.

Bitch please, you never let that stop you from filling your games up with as many faggots as Feargus will allow.

I looked up the stats in the collector's book and the number of ocean folk (black people) in Aedyr is 5%. Would you actually prevent players from making black characters using that as a justification? Fuck no.

The second answer is the real one. It's just too much work.

 

[Alienman]

Obsidian has a funny way of doing PR; "Here is another feature Avowed will not have, make sure to pre-order!"

 

[Butter]

Obsidian has a funny way of doing PR; "Here is another feature Avowed will not have, make sure to pre-order!"

I wonder if it's better to do it this way or Bethesda's way. Stanfield certainly sold better than this will, but then it got hit with six million negative reviews from people who expected a space game.

 

[Alienman]

Perhaps. I'm just used to devs bullshitting instead of downplaying their games.

 

[Tyranicon]

"One of the fun challenges with design, particularly around consequences or even sometimes around player options that are reactive to either the kind of character you've built or choices you've made earlier in the game is over the years I've learned that that stuff is always a lot less obvious to the player than to the designer," Patel said. "And so I think sometimes you have to be a bit more direct in tying those options and those consequences to content that's come before, because if it feels too natural and too understated, it feels like a thing that's happening, not a thing that's happening because of what you did."

This woman would make a great politician. That's 110 words for saying "player stoopid, game need to point out cool shit."

 

[Hagashager]

On the story side, Patel explains in an interview with IGN, it's because the player in Avowed is a representative from the Aedyr Empire, which is predominantly made up of humans and elves. Those familiar with Pillars of Eternity lore will recognize that this is indeed established canon, and has shaped a lot of the region's particular culture.

Bitch please, you never let that stop you from filling your games up with as many faggots as Feargus will allow.

I looked up the stats in the collector's book and the number of ocean folk (black people) in Aedyr is 5%. Would you actually prevent players from making black characters using that as a justification? Fuck no.

The second answer is the real one. It's just too much work.

Orlans are the black-coded fantasy race. Aumaua are Polynesians, particularly Hawaiian. It's very on-the-nose who the Aumaua are supposed to be. Their history is ripped straight from King Kamehameha and the Hawaiian kingdom. There's also a fair amount of Indonesian and Maori influence as well.

While the real answer is Obsidian is lazy, I actually find this kind of based. God-forbid a fantasy world actually have a native population and culture that isn't washed down to, "Fantasy United States".

 

[Roguey]

Orlans are the black-coded fantasy race.

Orlans do not strike me as black at all. I once cracked a joke about how they're Israelis on account of

It's very on-the-nose who the Aumaua are supposed to be. Their history is ripped straight from King Kamehameha and the Hawaiian kingdom. There's also a fair amount of Indonesian and Maori influence as well.

Yeah the Rauatai in Deadfire are about as Imperial Japan as it gets.

While the real answer is Obsidian is lazy, I actually find this kind of based. God-forbid a fantasy world actually have a native population and culture that isn't washed down to, "Fantasy United States".

Sawyer is just a history autist, this is how they build a world.

 

[Butter]

The Auamauaua in the first game don't really give off Polynesian vibes. Sawyer's midwit ideology is that the country you live in determines your attitudes rather than your race, so you don't get any of the Polynesian-coding until you visit the Deadfire archipelago.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Bonus points to Carrie for using "species" instead of "races"

 

[Silverfish]

Obsidian has a funny way of doing PR; "Here is another feature Avowed will not have, make sure to pre-order!"

"The Xbox version is just an empty case. Theoretically, this will make Avowed our smoothest-running console port ever!"

 

[Axel_am]

*sniff sniff*

Anyone else smelling dumpster fire?

 

[Quillon]

"One of the fun challenges with design, particularly around consequences or even sometimes around player options that are reactive to either the kind of character you've built or choices you've made earlier in the game is over the years I've learned that that stuff is always a lot less obvious to the player than to the designer," Patel said. "And so I think sometimes you have to be a bit more direct in tying those options and those consequences to content that's come before, because if it feels too natural and too understated, it feels like a thing that's happening, not a thing that's happening because of what you did."

This woman would make a great politician. That's 110 words for saying "player stoopid, game need to point out cool shit."

loool

I noticed that even in pillars & deadfire; whenever there is a reactivity or something, its way too deliberate, screaming: "HEY I AM REACTIVITY, I AM HERE BECAUSE YOU DID THIS REMEMBER, HOW REACTIVE THIS GAME IS! RIGHT? WINK WINK", subtlety goes out the window, a different version of Kojima-exposition/revelation dump but more often + repeated same expositions through different NPCs so dumbfuckest of us all shouldn't miss a thing. In the end it feels cringeworthy and that we're being treated like children yeah.

They need to shift-del their RPG writing guideline doc that has accumulated over the years; they may be thinking its sophisticated but its too stale and predictable at this point and didn't evolve for the better over the last 10 years. Quests in TOW plays out exactly the same as in pillarses, in terms of structure, I can recognize an Obs quest from a mile away

now they are tripling down on this way of design? ffs

 

[Child of Malkav]

*sniff sniff*

Anyone else smelling dumpster fire?

Yeah. Shouldn't we call the firefighters? This could be serious.