Baldur's Gate #BaldurGate: Siege of Dragonspear

[Echo Mirage]

Makes you wonder how David Gaider is feeling about his move to Beamdog.

You can take Gaider out of Bioware. But you can't take Bioware out of Gaider.

 

[raesha]

Makes you wonder how David Gaider is feeling about his move to Beamdog.

With the positions he's been at in the AAA industry, he's probably pretty free to pick and choose where he wants to go if need be.

People at beamdog, without the cv/resume of gaider, probably have more reason to worry though.

 

[Bubbles]

People at beamdog, without the cv/resume of gaider, probably have more reason to worry though.

Phillip Daigle was a designer on Trump Tycoon, so his future is secure.

 

[SionIV]

This is just a theory of mine, but...

- Beamdog has been talking about wanting to make BG3.
- Wizards of the Coast are supporting and working with them right now.
- Gaider moves to Beamdog.

It doesn't seem that far fetched in my mind. With the recent quotes from Amber together with this controversy, I don't see BG3 happening anytime soon. I'm just curious if Gaider would have moved to Beamdog if he had known about this. I'm also curious about the damage that this will cause Beamdog. There is no doubt that it will tarnish their reputation, but how much will it affect the sales? They did get a lot of publicity out of this.

 

[Space Insect]

The Beamdog forums are extreme shit right now. I was the one who started the discussion which led to Dee deleting his tweet and then right after that I get banned for no reason. I assume if I asked why they would say I was "flaming" the devs. Da fuq does flaming mean? Their own rules aren't even specific.

 

[Lhynn]

but how much will it affect the sales?

What sales?

 

[Echo Mirage]

The game is on page 7 of steam. Buried beneath a shit of games that have been on steam or on sale forever. Unless everyone migrated to GOG or suffered Beamdogs downloader. Its fair to say they screwed the launch and alienated their already limited fan base. Which has been replaced by a group of perpetually butthurt hipsters who don't care about the game or its content. Only its politics. Way to go Beamdog. You fucking idiots!.

 

[SionIV]

The Beamdog forums are extreme shit right now. I was the one who started the discussion which led to Dee deleting his tweet and then right after that I get banned for no reason. I assume if I asked why they would say I was "flaming" the devs. Da fuq does flaming mean? Their own rules aren't even specific.

"I linked to an 8chan discussion thread where they were saying some especially volatile things about me and my coworkers. I also (perhaps mistakenly) connected that discussion thread to GamerGate, and sent the tweets to Feminist Frequency and (definitely mistakenly) Jezebel Magazine. I deleted the tweets when it was pointed out to me that tweeting about the issue was only making things worse, and I made my Twitter account private when I started receiving a flood of abusive tweets in response. The tweets were not affiliated with Beamdog, nor is my Twitter account."

"I've apologized for this a couple times here on the forums. The tweet you're referring to was deleted shortly after it was posted."

Karma?

 

[Space Insect]

The Beamdog forums are extreme shit right now. I was the one who started the discussion which led to Dee deleting his tweet and then right after that I get banned for no reason. I assume if I asked why they would say I was "flaming" the devs. Da fuq does flaming mean? Their own rules aren't even specific.

"I linked to an 8chan discussion thread where they were saying some especially volatile things about me and my coworkers. I also (perhaps mistakenly) connected that discussion thread to GamerGate, and sent the tweets to Feminist Frequency and (definitely mistakenly) Jezebel Magazine. I deleted the tweets when it was pointed out to me that tweeting about the issue was only making things worse, and I made my Twitter account private when I started receiving a flood of abusive tweets in response. The tweets were not affiliated with Beamdog, nor is my Twitter account."

"I've apologized for this a couple times here on the forums. The tweet you're referring to was deleted shortly after it was posted."

Karma?

These devs and PR suits don't remember the great internet axiom: What you post on the internet cannot be deleted.

 

[Excidium II]

The game is on page 7 of steam. Buried beneath a shit of games that have been on steam or on sale forever. Unless everyone migrated to GOG or suffered Beamdogs downloader. Its fair to say they screwed the launch and alienated their already limited fan base. Which has been replaced by a group of perpetually butthurt hipsters who don't care about the game or its content. Only its politics. Way to go Beamdog. You fucking idiots!.

P. amazing self nuking.

 

[Western]

The writing is pretty weak overall, it seems to even fall slightly short of BG (not a very high bar generally).

I've been reading the Beamdog forum for an hour now, and I've found the best line so far. This is signature worthy.

"Is it just me, or does having David Gaider responding here add a whole new level of credibility to Beamdog?"

Yet, this is the man who is being praised, and will supposedly lead Beamdog to a glorious era of great writing. I quote the following from a review of one of David's books.

I previously praised Gaider for having moved on from his reliance on adverbs. It seems I spoke too soon, as we get such descriptions as: “The water was littered with bits of flotsam that pooled at the edges, lapping wetly against the stone…” How else would water lap? Particularly grating is the statement that “Fiona was glad to be getting out of there finally.” Say that out loud; every time I do, it comes out as “thud.” And it follows – somewhat less gracefully and grammatically – the same formula as nearly every sentence from The Stolen Throne. X does Y, Zly.

 

[SionIV]

I've barely written anything on the Beamdog forum for the last couple of weeks, and haven't taken part in any of the arguments, I wrote the following.

"There is no doubt that this controversy has caused damage, not just with sales, but also with their reputation. It's going to be an uphill battle from here for them, and they will need to sit down and reconsider their views on the games that they develop, and what goes into them.

This controversy isn't a small thing that is just spoken about on this forum, it's spoken about everywhere. There are tens of movies on youtube talking about it as well.

"Was thinking about getting this, but after this fiasco, I lost all interest. I'm not particularly excited about supporting companies that basically say that they don't care much for me mine, even if they change their mind after seeing how many "me and mine" there are out there."

"I love Baldur's Gate but i hate SJWs more, so no, I ain't buying shit."

"Someone calling Baldurs gate sexist and spitting on the fans I ain't gonna support."

"The fact they let SJW trash get their hands in writing the game in the first place is the problem. I still won't be buying the game. "

"I might buy the Enhanced Editions one day, but not this expansion. "

"As a developer I honestly have less respect for them now for pulling the joke."

"I have a feeling the damage has already been done."

"I don't care what Beamdog does at this point. They hired that writer and allowed her free reign which included insulting their potential customers."

There are hundreds of these, everywhere. I'm not quoting these to be negative, I just want to show that the people who are writing on this forum are a very small part of the gaming community. This isn't going to disappear in a few weeks, when people think of Beamdog, this will be the first thing that comes to many peoples mind. It makes me sad, because I don't want the BG:EE games to suffer, for this one DLC."

And my response from some other forum poster was this.

"And this is it. People like you who can't stop pushing your political and social agendas down are throats are trying to ensure that there is no baldurs gate 3 because your crusade against sjws is all encompassing. I'm really tired of you running up to everyone and shoving your agenda down our throats."

The hostility is real on the Beamdog forum, and I don't think that even the Codex can compete with this.

 

[Dreaad]

I'm sorry to tell you but that's the whole deal with the SJW drama. If you try and be reasonable, and not outright attack a position, BOTH sides will harass you for being xyz agenda pushing blah blah.

It's one of the absolute worst things to get dragged into as an individual or company, and Beamdog did it willingly.

 

[SionIV]

I'm sorry to tell you but that's the whole deal with the SJW drama. If you try and be reasonable, and not outright attack a position, BOTH sides will harass you for being xyz agenda pushing blah blah.

It's one of the absolute worst things to get dragged into as an individual or company, and Beamdog did it willingly.

I'm starting to see that now.

"This is very different from before. Just about every magazine, article and review are talking about this controversy, write 'Beamdog siege of dragonspear controversy' into google and you'll find page after page with articles that go into detail about it.

If you go onto youtube, you'll find a lot of videos as well. It's not just gamers anymore, there are several people out there that don't have any gaming on their channel, that is talking about it. Siege of Dragonspear has become the new Anita Sarkeesian, even if for a short duration only.

This is by no means a small thing, and this isn't a 'small drop in the bucket'. The reviews have been horrendous, and Siege of Dragonspear has been pushed back a few pages on steam (it's not on the front page anymore), which is not a good place to be when you've just put your game out on the market.

They made a mistake, it's not the end of the world, hopefully they learnt something from it.

The reason I've been writing this is to show that there have been consequences for the controversy that got created around Siege of Dragonspear, and it's not far fetched to believe that they will lose sales on this. It might also turn around and they will gain sales from the publicity, it could go both ways.

Still, no need to be offensive or insulting to me just because I'm sharing my opinion."

I honestly don't think I've said anything insulting or offensive in my posts, I'm trying to keep it neutral. I just have a feeling that I'll get smacked with a warning anyway, just because my opinion isn't popular.

 

[Western]

I'm sorry to tell you but that's the whole deal with the SJW drama. If you try and be reasonable, and not outright attack a position, BOTH sides will harass you for being xyz agenda pushing blah blah.

It's one of the absolute worst things to get dragged into as an individual or company, and Beamdog did it willingly.

I can't argue with that but I will say while both sides will attack you, only one side tends to ban you. Here on the Codex I can argue facts and details of the Nuremberg trials with a Holocaust denier, unless you're talking about getting attacked somewhere else but, at least here on the Codex you'll always get your right of reply if you don't want to back down.

 

[SionIV]

It seems like some of the moderators and developers are very touchy when it comes to this subject, and I'm almost certain that anyone that mentions Amber Scott in a negative way will get a slap on the wrist at best, or a ban at worst. Dee is one of the main moderators on the forum, and it seems like his tweet is a touchy subject as well. It's like walking on glass shards in there, and all the old members seem to have disappeared and everyone talking have between 20 to 100 posts. There are also a million of people just talking about the LGBT community and racial issues, it's like everyone with an opinion on these subjects have migrated to the Dragonspear Sub Forum.

There are also many posts about trans people and what they want from this character and how they would write them. I think I've seen 9 people with under 50 posts each that are proclaiming to be a transexual, like that will change things or make a difference. What the fuck do people think will happen? Most likely Beamdog will try to push this character under the rug, not put an entire development team on a side character!

 

[Reinhardt]

identify as a consultant

 

[Mustawd]

...lapping wetly against the stone...

This is Black Geyser bad level of writing. Either that or Fifty shades of Gray.

 

[Mustawd]

There are hundreds of these, everywhere. I'm not quoting these to be negative, I just want to show that the people who are writing on this forum are a very small part of the gaming community. This isn't going to disappear in a few weeks, when people think of Beamdog, this will be the first thing that comes to many peoples mind. It makes me sad, because I don't want the BG:EE games to suffer, for this one DLC.

This is a completely reasonable post, and IMO encapsulates the issue quite well. Not sure what they're seeing as your "agenda" tbh.

 

[Jezal_k23]

Hard to believe they willingly got involved in these controversial issues. It's nightmarish to be involved in these controversies as a company. Last thing they should have wanted.

And calling for help from Jezebel magazine and feminist frequency... Not sure what they expected. They certainly had their fair share of encouraging all this to go even farther.

Puzzling all around. All of it easily avoidable.

 

[AwesomeButton]

People used to push to be hired as writers and designers in games. Now it's a "trans consultant"? If I make an account at Beamdog, I know what my nickname will be - "GoatSexInstructor". This is the scum of a generation and of the internet, making a nest in your company's forums.

These people are beyond hope. I mean Beamdog. I really don't see how they can recover from this. Nigger-consulting is the future.

 

[MRY]

By the way, if you guys haven't read it, you should check out the design docs to A Mind Forever Voyaging.

This is one of my favorites. There's a two column chart with one listing "Desirable" and the other "Undesirable," i.e., setting forth the "winning" and "losing" criteria for changing the future. In the first draft, they run:

Desirable
High standard of living
Economic equality
Social justice
Appreciation of art
Cultural diversity
Dynamism
Democratic government
Racial survival ensured

Undesirable
Low standard of living
Economic inequality
Social injustice
Disinterest (sic) in art
Cultural blandness
Stagnation
Autocratic government
Racial survival questionable

Anyway, the lists go through revisions over several drafts of the document. "Racial" survival gets turned to "Species" survival, for example.

But the best of all is that "democratic government" gets excised, with the following marginalia: "Well, probably, but not always. A benevolent despot may force a society to do something good against its will. . . Democracy seems unlikely to be the utopian gov't. (When majority rules, minority suffers.) Socialism?" And then "high standard of living" gets corrected as well with the marginalia: "This could include 'simple standard of living' - working a farm, wood burning fireplace . . ."

Spoiler

Given that Infocom was basically the greatest game company of its era, I can only imagine the brouhaha that would've ensued if all these hot-under-the-collar whippersnappers had been around in those days.

 

[Mustawd]

 

[Excidium II]

AI autocracy is the only correct form of government.

 

[Mexi]

Made an account, and I tried to be really careful in my tone to not get my message deleted. Fuck, those Beamdog forum dwellers are soul crushing. They're like those cows jumping off a cliff because the cow in front of them did it. They make you guys seem sane in comparison.

I actually think the BioWare forums, in their present state, are better than the Beamdog forums, but it's like saying Hep A is better than Hep C.