Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Shrimp]

We'll live and see, I guess.
For the near future I'll stick to the mindset "Hope for the best and expect the worst".
I'll take you at your word here, the one time I hit up Larian's forums there was nothing on the front page about controls, but there was a big ass thread about adding mechanics for veganism. It didn't fill me with confidence concerning the nature of the feedback Larian are allegedly monitoring.

To be fair, forums of that specific type have a tendency to be full of useless threads that only are on the front page because they were made very recently. Many of the threads rarely get more than 1 or 2 replies and eventually end up getting pushed to the abyss as soon as someone makes a new 'feedback' thread where they ask for some other inane addition.
It's a bit of a shame since a thread easily can contain worthwhile and thoughtful feedback, but if it doesn't contain anything worthy of discussion it's unlikely to receive any bumps unless the OP starts posting himself or some random person chimes in to say they agree. I'm just glad it's not my job to sift through the endless sea of trash threads and trash suggestions in the hopes of finding any reasonable.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Well, that's the nature of the beast, isn't it? A bit like the BG3 subreddit and how most of its content is shitty try-hard memes and fruitcakes simping about the companions they fantasize about the most.

 

[Sharpedge]

well, you have just to go to the "Feedback" subforum rather than the general one, and then sort the threads by number of replies/view to see for yourself:

https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=87&page=1&sort=replies&order=desc

Anyway, I sort of lied to you. While popular as a topic, it's not the second most popular anymore, because a troll thread about getting more bikini armors in the game surpassed it, so there's that.
Bullshit aside, it follows just closely in popularity, while the (so far) uncontested king is the thread about expanding the party to six slots.

Post counters aside, a great thing about the argument for changing controls is that it's not "divisive" in the slightest. There's basically 100% agreement on the fact that the current solution sucks and even that fringe minority that attempted to defend it went for "Well, yeah, it SUCKS, but maybe with some adjustment you could salvage small parts of it".

P.S. Threads about it were also posted on both reddit and Steam (by me and by other people as well) and even then the unanimous opinion was "Boy, this stuff sucks".

If it gets popular enough it will get moved to the megathreads section, where it will continue to be ignored :D

 

[Gargaune]

well, you have just to go to the "Feedback" subforum rather than the general one, and then sort the threads by number of replies/view to see for yourself:

https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=87&page=1&sort=replies&order=desc

Ah, thanks, maybe we have a shot at a passable control scheme after all.

the (so far) uncontested king is the thread about expanding the party to six slots.

Fuck me running, imagine having to manage six party members with Larian's chain shit!

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Fuck me running, imagine having to manage six party members with Larian's chain shit!

Interesting you mention it, because I made the exact same point on their forum (and in both threads) more than once:
if we want to even BEGIN talking about having a party of 5 or six characters (which I think we should, personally) revamping the control scheme becomes basically a mandatory prerequisite.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

What's the rationale again for why it exists? Does it solve some problem in co-op that I'm not thinking of? I agree that it's annoying and there is a lot of prior art out there of systems that manage just fine without it; I'm struggling to understand what problem it solves. Maybe being able to fuck around while someone else is talking to an NPC?

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

No one really knows, since no one but Larian people seem to think it's any good, people complained about how shit it was since DOS 1 and Larian never listened but also never explained why it was a necessity.

The only good thing I can say about the system if I try really hard is that it allows the player to control a single character, but even for that a basic "auto-follow toggle" would arguably work far better with far less downsides and contrived mechanics for party maneuvers.

The good news here that gives us a minuscule glimmer of hope is that this time A LOT of people are complaining about it and basically everyone who played BG, Pathfinder or POE is stressing how much better they are.
Will Larian once again "stick to their guns" because they "have a vision" and cripple their own game? Who knows.

 

[Gargaune]

What's the rationale again for why it exists? Does it solve some problem in co-op that I'm not thinking of? I agree that it's annoying and there is a lot of prior art out there of systems that manage just fine without it; I'm struggling to understand what problem it solves. Maybe being able to fuck around while someone else is talking to an NPC?

The only plausible explanation is that Larian hired a former Obsidian dev who's still pissed off at all the hate NWN2's controls got and figured he'd show us what "horrible" really means.

 

[Gargaune]

a basic "auto-follow toggle" would arguably work far better with far less downsides and contrived mechanics for party maneuvers.

In NWN2, I bound the Select All toggle to Mouse 5 and, in conjunction with Puppet Mode, it was a game saver. Can't imagine completing any part of it otherwise.

And that's why I keep harping on about this, BG3 uses the exact same schema as NWN2's default for party movement, but makes it even worse. In NWN2 you had Follow and Hold orders, in BG3 you have the toilet chain, except the former did also offer a just passable set of manual controls on the side. No similar brainwave from Larian as of yet.

 

[Black]

Solasta also in EA but controls so much better than BG3.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Solasta also in EA but controls so much better than BG3.

Yeah, well, it's not like Solasta is such an achievement in party control. It's just that "controls better than BG3" is setting the bar spectacularly low.

 

[Cryomancer]

Solasta also in EA but controls so much better than BG3.

Yep. The UI of BG3 is clearly not made for Vancian nor 5e magical system. Even as a warlock which has way less spells than other casters, my UI was pouted with spells spells, my cleric? Every spell that can be heightened is putted into the bar with no icon differentiation. The UI was literally off screen polluted with multiple copies of the same spell.

There are SO many UI which did a amazing job with Vancian magical system. NWN2 quick cast menu + spellbook that can be dragged into a bar, ToEE "circle" UI, Solasta UI where your spells are divided by level and you can click on "+" to heighten then, why they decided to maintain DOS2 UI in a game which uses a completely different(and much better) magical system?

Yeah, well, it's not like Solasta is such an achievement in party control. It's just that "controls better than BG3" is setting the bar spectacularly low.

Not only on controls. The homebew stuff from Solasta is actually interesting. Shock Arcanist for eg. the homebrew rules of Larian are AWFUL. HP bloat is the worst but I honestly don't mind being able to disengage or shove as a bonus action.

The only plausible explanation is that Larian hired a former Obsidian dev who's still pissed off at all the hate NWN2's controls got and figured he'd show us what "horrible" really means.

NWN2 is awful only in camera. (and spell casting nerfs)

--------------

Would be cool to have an thread ONLY about Solasta VS BG3

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Yeah, well, it's not like Solasta is such an achievement in party control. It's just that "controls better than BG3" is setting the bar spectacularly low.

Not only on controls. The homebew stuff from Solasta is actually interesting. Shock Arcanist for eg. the homebrew rules of Larian are AWFUL. HP bloat is the worst but I honestly don't mind being able to disengage or shove as a bonus action.

Well, but that's another topic, isn't it?
The point is: I don't actually LIKE how Solasta controls.
I may prefer it to BG3 but that's just because I genuinely hate the latter (out of combat).

I wouldn't think half a second about preferring, say, Pathfinder Kingmaker to Solasta and its weird "block-based movement" for the whole party.

 

[millenialboomer]

https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/h...he-definitive-dungeons-and-dragons-video-game
New interview. Mostly stuff we already know, but I highlighted a few interesting titbits.

Of course there are the finer details, like how specific spells and actions work, and we hit a few limitations with the D&D ruleset where we had to make tweaks. One example is the Fighter class. In the tabletop game it’s basically a tutorial class to teach people how to play D&D, but in a video game you don’t want it to be boring, so we had to add in a lot more player choice in combat.

That's really worrying. It sounds like he fundamentally doesn't understand 5E and is dedicated to "fixing" precisely what doesn't need to be fixed which will in turn cause a cascade of secondary effects he didn't intend. This reminds me of the lowered AC which resulted in HP bloat.

 

[Gargaune]

There are SO many UI which did a amazing job with Vancian magical system. NWN2 quick cast menu + spellbook that can be dragged into a bar, ToEE "circle" UI, Solasta UI where your spells are divided by level and you can click on "+" to heighten then, why they decided to maintain DOS2 UI in a game which uses a completely different(and much better) magical system?

Agree with you on BG3's spellcasting UI, it doesn't fit the requirements well. NWN2's Quick Cast menu is still the gold standard, clearly purpose-built for the D&D system. ToEE's UI, while terrible in most other respects, had an absolute gem in its Radial Menu, it worked very well and just needed a little more iteration on scaling. An interesting comparison to ToEE's is NWN1's GUI - an overall much more comfortable interface but, while its own Radial Menu was better proportioned, using click over hover resulted in a slower flow. Either way, it also was far superior to BG3's one-size-fits-all hotbar.

The only plausible explanation is that Larian hired a former Obsidian dev who's still pissed off at all the hate NWN2's controls got and figured he'd show us what "horrible" really means.

NWN2 is awful only in camera. (and spell casting nerfs)

NWN2's camera controls are better than BG3's, same as its party controls, faint praise as that may be. Most people blame Obsidian's camera implementation when they think back to it, but it's really the party controls they're struggling with the most. NWN2's Exploration and Strategy cameras cover most use cases about as well as can be for a "full 3D isometric", the only notable shortcoming being the limited range from the party in the latter's case. It's frustrating, but "isometric CRPG" and "full 3D" don't go great together.

 

[Joseph Stalin]

If "The Kid" Origin Character really will be CHARNAME'S child, this will be the first time in my life where I'll consider playing as a pre-generated character.

 

[NJClaw]

If "The Kid" Origin Character really will be CHARNAME'S child, this will be the first time in my life where I'll consider playing as a pre-generated character.

Plot twist: CHARNAME was gay and the kid's second parent is Khalid.

 

[Sergiu64]

If "The Kid" Origin Character really will be CHARNAME'S child, this will be the first time in my life where I'll consider playing as a pre-generated character.

Plot twist: CHARNAME was gay and the kid's second parent is Khalid.

Bah, just go full pornhub: Charname and Imoen's child.

 

[Lacrymas]

CHARNAME was a woman and had a baby with futa Imoen. Prove me wrong.

 

[Robber Baron]

If "The Kid" Origin Character really will be CHARNAME'S child

I'm not very familiar with nuFaerun lore, but isn't 3 set hundreds of years after 2? How old would this "kid" be?

 

[NJClaw]

If "The Kid" Origin Character really will be CHARNAME'S child

I'm not very familiar with nuFaerun lore, but isn't 3 set hundreds of years after 2? How old would this "kid" be?

Baldur's Gate 3 will take place immediately after the events of Baldur's Gate: Descent into Avernus, which takes place roughly 100 years after Baldur's Gate 2.

 

[Morality Games]

If "The Kid" Origin Character really will be CHARNAME'S child

I'm not very familiar with nuFaerun lore, but isn't 3 set hundreds of years after 2? How old would this "kid" be?

"CHARNAME" is supposed to live longer than the normal lifespan for their species.

 

[Mebrilia the Viera Queen]

To me you people are overreacting quite a lot. It is true there are some differences with the source material i dislike some of them but in the end the game plays well. Also there are mods already to fix the mechanics so i am not concerned about that. I mean what is happening Codex? Bashing a company that for once wants to deliver an experience similiar to the pen and paper to one side and on the other praising another company that is converting a pen and paper in first person shooter? Give me a break. :D

As for charname is actually canon in D&D it has a name and also an ending. Check. Murder on Baldur's gate. He died.

 

[Spectacle]

To me you people are overreacting quite a lot. It is true there are some differences with the source material i dislike some of them but in the end the game plays well. Also there are mods already to fix the mechanics so i am not concerned about that. I mean what is happening Codex? Bashing a company that for once wants to deliver an experience similiar to the pen and paper to one side and on the other praising another company that is converting a pen and paper in first person shooter? Give me a break. :D

As for charname is actually canon in D&D it has a name and also an ending. Check. Murder on Baldur's gate. He died.

People are being critical precisely because BG3 has the potential to be fucking good, and so we want to point out the often easily fixable issues that prevent it from being as good as it can be.

 

[Black]

Also there are mods

Here come the bethtards.